Lucas: High tier material?

[Smashbros_7]

Think about.
*Good strength
*Good speed
*Great FS
*Tether recovery AND Tether attack
*PK Fire spam

 

[BentoBox]

I was feeling pretty confident that this section would be spared from such threads :[ Why do you exist?

but yeah Claus is sexy.

 

[IrishSheikah]

Lucas has a "better" neutral special
side special is spammable
down special does damage
up special covers less area providing for an easier executed recovery
That is pretty impressive

 

[Vortok]

I love how 75% of the character boards have a "omg, character X looks top tier!" thread. I saw one in the Yoshi boards, for crying out loud! Just goes to show that the game (so far) seems to be pretty well balanced... or that everyone is living in a fantasy, lol.

Until we break the game engine, of course, and find something that gives a few characters a clear advantage. XD

 

[IrishSheikah]

Don't ever bother

 

[Mikezor]

I was about to post a topic saying we had not had one person claim where they think Lucas would be on the tier list yet. But then I saw this and shed a tear.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

his tether attack and tether recovery aren't good. The attack is weak as hell and all you have to do to keep the recovery from working is edgehog.

 

[W.Jr]

hahahah i doubt that

 

[IrishSheikah]

thats my line ^

 

[BentoBox]

his tether attack and tether recovery aren't good. The attack is weak as hell and all you have to do to keep the recovery from working is edgehog.

He has no tether attack.

._.''

 

[IrishSheikah]

He has no tether attack.

._.''

He has a tether GRAB

 

[GKirby]

He has a tether GRAB

Same thing, sort of... I guess... The rope snake (that leaves you before you go underwater because he was completely useless after your first play with Duster)

 

[BentoBox]

He has a tether GRAB

Uh... read...

The attack is weak as hell

 

[limabean]

dude ive been playing as lucas all week and he pwns, his Nair has no lag so u can do shortH nair to FS

 

[IrishSheikah]

I forgot we were talking about his gair (grab aerial)

 

[Platanos]

I actually think it's a pretty safe bet Lucas will make it high up on the tier list.

We'll have to see a couple years from now.

 

[Dudechapguyman]

Think about.
*Good strength
*Good speed
*Great FS
*Tether recovery AND Tether attack
*PK Fire spam

I dunno what game you've been playing, but his FS is garbage in Brawl.

 

[RazeveX]

i know there's one of there for every character, but after playing him for a while today, i definitely think he has potential.

seriously, his up smash seems so insanely broken. Its range upwards (and to the sides) is insane, has only a short delay, and is at least as strong as ikes U smash.

plus he has great aerial maneuverability, has very low lag and powerful moves, and is very good at comboing, not to mention his down B has unforseen potential.

i didnt even like him until i tried him out today. he seems good.

 

[Serpit]

Although Up Smash rocks, it's probably my least used Smash since it's so slow. D-Smash is strong with a great hitbox, can't be spotdodged and hits people below you under a platform, and F-Smash is just insanely powerful and fast, considering it's a god-darn STICK.

Lucas is a contender for the best Smash attacks in the game, seriously. And while I don't think he'll be Top Tier or anything, I definitely see him in the upper half, probably even Top 10. But then again, people seem to claim this for every character =D

 

[Smashbros_7]

I dunno what game you've been playing, but his FS is garbage in Brawl.

have you played the game? I highly doubt it because his FS is a work of art. If used properly in the middle of a large stage OR the left or right of a large stage depending on your opponent, he FS kills. Either you saw one bad vid usage or you just stink as playing as Lucas.

PS: It's better if you throw/stun/hurt the opponent hard before performing the FS.

 

[jimitree]

I dunno what game you've been playing, but his FS is garbage in Brawl.

Ha. I laugh. Yeah, but it's fast and his up smash makes up for it by far.

 

[Smashbros_7]

We need Mikezor's opinion on this.

 

[Banjodorf]

I dunno what game you've been playing, but his FS is garbage in Brawl.

His FS isnt bad. Ness' FS however.... IS garbage... WHY did they pick such a horrendous angle? WHY??

 

[napZzz]

Lucas is definitely top material for sure dont even try to tell me hes not

 

[fridayslobster]

Ive heard great things about lucas. Im glad pk fire is spammable because i used ness's alot in mellee. Plus his recovery isnt as bad as ness's used to be.

 

[napZzz]

Yes lucas has incredible recovery because his pk thunder can hit him much farther than ness's can. In my opinion its almost as if they took ness and remade him into a better character and the result is lucas. Not to hate on ness though I love playing as him but I just cant ever win with him. So thats why I use ganon

 

[Eten]

According to my extensive calculations, Lucas is very close to 3rd best character in Brawl, only Pikmin & Olimar and Toon Link doing better.

 

[Serpit]

According to my extensive calculations, Lucas is very close to 3rd best character in Brawl, only Pikmin & Olimar and Toon Link doing better.

And Marth. Don't forget about Marth.
>_>

 

[.kR0]

No. Marth isn't that bad anymore.

1. you can **** his recovery. If he's decently far off, he's 100% dead
2. you have a spammable projectile that forces him to do a full jump instead of a short hop. Then you can uptilt/nair him away again.
3. your smashes are better in almost every way except for his fsmash which is slightly better just because of its range. His fsmash tipper doesn't kill at like 30% anymore. And with diminishing return, it usually can kill around 100% while you have three solid smashes to choose from (marth's upsmash/dsmash suck) all of which can kill below 100%
4. he can't gimp your recovery as long as you float out of his bair/fair range.
5. ftilt ***** him if he tries to get aggressive.

All you have to watch out for against Marth is hit uptilt and his sword dance. Not much else.

If he tries to turtle and bait you to come to him, just pkfire him away. If he rushes you, just nair, ftilt, uptilt him. If you get him off the stage, he's pretty much dead.

 

[Serpit]

No. Marth isn't that bad anymore.

1. you can **** his recovery. If he's decently far off, he's 100% dead
2. you have a spammable projectile that forces him to do a full jump instead of a short hop. Then you can uptilt/nair him away again.
3. your smashes are better in almost every way except for his fsmash which is slightly better just because of its range. His fsmash tipper doesn't kill at like 30% anymore. And with diminishing return, it usually can kill around 100% while you have three solid smashes to choose from (marth's upsmash/dsmash suck) all of which can kill below 100%
4. he can't gimp your recovery as long as you float out of his bair/fair range.
5. ftilt ***** him if he tries to get aggressive.

All you have to watch out for against Marth is hit uptilt and his sword dance. Not much else.

If he tries to turtle and bait you to come to him, just pkfire him away. If he rushes you, just nair, ftilt, uptilt him. If you get him off the stage, he's pretty much dead.

This isn't a question of the Marth vs. Lucas machtup though, but a question of Marth's general position. And he is still awesome. Even so, PK Fire spam is good, but doesn't solve everything. Marth outranges you on almost all attacks, is darn fast, and can combo better than most. I actually think Lucas will make it pretty high up in the eventually released Tier List, but not above Marth.

 

[.kR0]

There is no "combo." Even with Marth. All you have to do is airdodge/spotdodge in time. I never, ever get juggled by his fairs. His sword dance isn't a combo but more like a jab at low percentages.

And yes, his PKfire spam solves like majority of the problems vs. a Marth. If you don't have a projectile, its really hard to beat a Marth, but his PKfire ALONE allows you to pretty much control how you and the Marth player is going to space. As long as you know his range, you can easily make the guy whiff. If they whiff against Lucas, they are going to get punished.

Marth isn't that bad when you're using Lucas. If you're using someone like Captain Falcon, you'll get *****.

 

[Serpit]

There is no "combo." Even with Marth. All you have to do is airdodge/spotdodge in time. I never, ever get juggled by his fairs. His sword dance isn't a combo but more like a jab at low percentages.

And yes, his PKfire spam solves like majority of the problems vs. a Marth. If you don't have a projectile, its really hard to beat a Marth, but his PKfire ALONE allows you to pretty much control how you and the Marth player is going to space. As long as you know his range, you can easily make the guy whiff. If they whiff against Lucas, they are going to get punished.

Marth isn't that bad when you're using Lucas. If you're using someone like Captain Falcon, you'll get *****.

That "there is no combo" part is ridiculous. When you have moves that can be stringed together without giving the opponent the opportunity to airdodge ro spotdodge, you have a combo. Those exist in Brawl, Lucas has them, Marth has them. I'm not talking about Aerial juggles, I'm talking about successful moves that lead to other mvoes, with the intention of racking up damage or killing your opponent. DO you seriously believe you can't do this in Brawl?

It's true that PK Fire Spam helps alot, but your first post made it sound like he couldn't even get near you if you spammed it constantly. The airdodge mentioned by you helps quite a bit there, simply rolling through the PK Fire is useful, since you do have a little lag after using it, even when shorthopped. Another problem is that Marth can jump over shorthopped PK-Fires, or duck under full-hopped PK fires. they aren't as fast as Falco's SHB in Melee and don't build a wall in front of you.

And I already mentioned that Marth isn't a terribly bad matchup for Lucas, just that Marth is a pretty bad matchup against the majority of the cast and still one of the best character in the game.

 

[BentoBox]

That "there is no combo" part is ridiculous. When you have moves that can be stringed together without giving the opponent the opportunity to airdodge ro spotdodge, you have a combo. Those exist in Brawl, Lucas has them, Marth has them. I'm not talking about Aerial juggles, I'm talking about successful moves that lead to other mvoes, with the intention of racking up damage or killing your opponent. DO you seriously believe you can't do this in Brawl?

A legit combo is defined by a string of attacks from which your opponent can not escape. In SSBM, hit stun allowed certain attacks to be chained efficiently and it appears that since the hit stun was severly reduced in SSBB, legit combos are near impossible to perform for the great majority of the cast. Airdodge is that broken.

 

[Yuna]

A legit combo is defined by a string of attacks from which your opponent can not escape. In SSBM, hit stun allowed certain attacks to be chained efficiently and it appears that since the hit stun was severly reduced in SSBB, legit combos are near impossible to perform for the great majority of the cast. Airdodge is that broken.

QFT.

A small number of characters can still combo, though. Lucas just doesn't happen to be one of the ones who excel at it.

 

[Serpit]

A legit combo is defined by a string of attacks from which your opponent can not escape. In SSBM, hit stun allowed certain attacks to be chained efficiently and it appears that since the hit stun was severly reduced in SSBB, legit combos are near impossible to perform for the great majority of the cast. Airdodge is that broken.

I know that the ability to string attacks together was reduced from Melee to Brawl. I never stated otherwise. It was just .kr0's notion that there are absolutely no combos in the game that annoyed me. I am also aware that Lucas isn't the best combo character by a long shot, I was just saying that he has possibilities, and so has Marth, which was the initial point of the debate.

 

[BlnkR]

Aye. Lucas's great speed allows him to "combo" (whatever you want to call it) extremely well. Even if characters can get out of one of his hits, he has the ability to keep the combo going with u-tilt or f-tilt. Anything, really.

 

[BigRick]

I love how 75% of the character boards have a "omg, character X looks top tier!" thread. I saw one in the Yoshi boards, for crying out loud! Just goes to show that the game (so far) seems to be pretty well balanced... or that everyone is living in a fantasy, lol.

Until we break the game engine, of course, and find something that gives a few characters a clear advantage. XD

lol you gots to be kiddin me

*picks up torch and heads to the yoshi boards*

 

[.kR0]

I know that the ability to string attacks together was reduced from Melee to Brawl. I never stated otherwise. It was just .kr0's notion that there are absolutely no combos in the game that annoyed me. I am also aware that Lucas isn't the best combo character by a long shot, I was just saying that he has possibilities, and so has Marth, which was the initial point of the debate.

There really isn't. The "max" hit string I ever pulled off was like 5 with Zero suit (dthrow->upsmash->upB->dtilt->upair) but those are all based off the opponents MISTAKE. I don't consider IASA frame attacks chaining into one other move a "combo." (dashattack to dsmash with Diddy for example). I don't consider Marth's sword-dance (B->B->pause->another sword dance) a combo because you can get out it just by rolling.

Guranteed combos don't really exist. But you can string small chain of moves because the opponents aren't PERFECT and they can forget to DI, airdodge, or do any fast aerial to retaliate. Fox's sex kick->waveshine->upsmash or Falco's dair combos and stuff thats INESCAPABLE no longer exist in Brawl which I am really happy for.

The max "combo" that I pulled off with Lucas was like a downthrow->uptilt->uptilt and the guy could have gotten out of it if he just DIed to the right and airdodged the third tilt.

With Marth, he can string his sword dance to an fair but honestly, he can't follow up after his fair out of his upward sword dance hit with anything. Maybe he could do at most a three move combo (sword-dance, to fair to nair) but considering the slight range nerf he got and the non-existance hit stun and the broken airdodge mechanic, I highly doubt I'll see any "combos" that does more than 20% dmg.

The only character that can combo from what I've experienced was Toon Link and his bairs and D3's chainthrow (and D3's chainthrow doesn't work against like half of the characters)

 

[PK Starstorm]

I think he has great potential.

 

[mNag]

I think I'm going to main Lucas after reading this thread, I was a Ness player since day one of SSB. Time for a slight change