• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Lucas comes out of Nowhere - Discuss thread

Xevious 1

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
536
NNID
Xevious969409
3DS FC
1118-2448-4692
A costume would have been cool, but Lucas didn't deserve an actual DLC roster slot.

... But I guess I shouldn't be too surprised considering they added Toon Link and Dark Pit
What why? Out of all the semi-clones, Lucas was the most different. He looks even more different in this game. Also the slots argument goes out the window now due to character voting.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
Anybody notice Duck Hunt playing the role of Boney in the Lucas/Claus meeting in the trailer?
 

Drippy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
753
What why? Out of all the semi-clones, Lucas was the most different. He looks even more different in this game. Also the slots argument goes out the window now due to character voting.
I don't know why Toon Link was used as an example as well. He plays way differently from Link and is like a semi-clone as well. A better comparison would've been Lucina and Dark Pit, who I don't really care that are in the game but are actual clones with super minor differences.

Anybody notice Duck Hunt playing the role of Boney in the Lucas/Claus meeting in the trailer?
I didn't notice it while watching the trailer but it has been pointed out quite a few times.
 

XCounter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
102
Location
In the lab, London
NNID
CrossCounter
3DS FC
2981-7233-0181
it would have been really really good if they also announced mother 3 as well but the entire fandom would have filled every hospital and nintendo would have been the cause of genocide but they would have died happily
Lucas releases in June.

E3 is in June.

Mother 3 at E3?

It only makes sense. :troll:
 

Conn1496

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
692
Location
Sheffield, UK
3DS FC
0344-9757-7217
Lucas releases in June.

E3 is in June.

Mother 3 at E3?

It only makes sense. :troll:
Mother 3 at E3? In June - the sixth month. Half of 6 is 3. HALF. 3.
Half-life 3 confirmed. :troll:

No, but seriously, I gotta get my [smash] together for June. That is too long for this much hype, this hype train can not go fast enough.
 

Lysergic

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
67
I wanna see PM Lucas, just like how Pink Fresh handled him in 3.02 lol.

But on a more serious note, Ness already has Lucas' specials as customs. I don't really see what customs Lucas will use that don't play identically to Ness'...
Maybe in the new patch they'll dramatically edit all or get rid of customs all together. Now that would be a dream come true right there. Though Lucas has a lot of different properties other than his B moves so regardless Lucas is played a lot of differently than Ness with or without customs.
 

NessFangirl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
10
I'm ridiculously excited for Lucas' return! I don't normally cough up money for DLC, but I will for him. Hopefully he doesn't cost too much... >o>
 

MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Chile
I'm ridiculously excited for Lucas' return! I don't normally cough up money for DLC, but I will for him. Hopefully he doesn't cost too much... >o>
He should have the same price as Mewtwo.

I was going to use the rest of my eShop money for Mewtwo but one of my friends asked for a Smash 3DS Club Nintendo code and I didn't use mine, so now I'm waiting for the code and Lucas' release.

Also, welcome to SmashBoards!
 
Last edited:

extremechiton

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
1,626
Location
California
NNID
Extremechiton
3DS FC
1590-4719-6526
Switch FC
SW 5498 9796 6766
They burying effect would be a waste as a graphic. If it doesn't bury, it shouldn't look like it buries. It could have similar properties to wft jab 3 in which its grounding is very brief. But I do think it's percentages dependent. At lower percentag, you don't get buried for long especially of your mashing and double so if you get launched after being buried, (most likely due to the final hit of d throw).

But I believe at higher percents, Lucy's hoo-haa will be d throw>up smash

(Really guys, zss flip jump buries and its not graphial. If every move in the game slams you into the ground and doesn't bury, it's not going to just be a graphial aesthetic, but a stage bounce.)
 

XCounter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
102
Location
In the lab, London
NNID
CrossCounter
3DS FC
2981-7233-0181
It's basically the same aesthetic as the Brawl dthrow. It just looks like there's a hole now instead of half of a character's body awkwardly sticking out of the stage.

When characters get buried by a move it's typically their top half sticking out, not to mention that there was no movement showing Mega Man trying to struggle out of the hole. I think it's just a visual effect.
 

Drippy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
753
It's basically the same aesthetic as the Brawl dthrow. It just looks like there's a hole now instead of half of a character's body awkwardly sticking out of the stage.

When characters get buried by a move it's typically their top half sticking out, not to mention that there was no movement showing Mega Man trying to struggle out of the hole. I think it's just a visual effect.
Yeah one of the mods here I believe already said it was just a visual effect.
 

Bearbuddy4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
229
NNID
bearbuddy3
I can't believe the community was pushing for the comeback of a clone character.

Lucas and Ness are like Mario and Luigi. Oops not even that, Luigi has at least more than one of his own moves.

so disappoint at smash community.

Lets get Shadow, Knuckles , Tails, and that pink sonic girl in too. Might as well at this point.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

"Download Complete."
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
13,424
Location
Down on the corner, out in the street.
I can't believe the community was pushing for the comeback of a clone character.

Lucas and Ness are like Mario and Luigi. Oops not even that, Luigi has at least more than one of his own moves.

so disappoint at smash community.

Lets get Shadow, Knuckles , Tails, and that pink sonic girl in too. Might as well at this point.
They aren't even clones lol.
 

elusiveTranscendent

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
1,649
Location
Central NJ
NNID
elusiveTranscend
3DS FC
2105-8699-9997
I can't believe the community was pushing for the comeback of a clone character.

Lucas and Ness are like Mario and Luigi. Oops not even that, Luigi has at least more than one of his own moves.

so disappoint at smash community.

Lets get Shadow, Knuckles , Tails, and that pink sonic girl in too. Might as well at this point.
Did you seriously just come to the Lucas subforum to complain? If so, that's pretty low, dude.

Plus, I can't tell if you're being serious or not, probably not, but this notion is so wrong it's not even funny.

His jabs and tilts are completely different from Ness's.
As well as his aerials.
His smashes usmash and dsmash are different from Ness's. Side smash is similar, but comes out quicker and is shorter.
His specials, though aethetically similar, function differently from Ness's.

His neutral special is not PK Flash; it's PK Freeze. Similar functions, I suppose. Does less damage, but freezes the opponent, with greater range.
His up special has more range and the projectile has transcendent priority. His PKT2 has less knockback.
His side special travels horizontally no matter if Lucas is in the air or not. Also, instead of trapping, it just does a single hit.
His down special, the most similar to Ness's has the same function, but it's centered around his outstretched hand, which gives it a hit box when he releases it.

Lucas also gets a tether grab, something Ness does not. And his throws are completely different in terms of animation and knockback.

So, instead of dismissing Lucas as a clone, learn to actually, like, um, ya know, research? And know what you're actually talking about? Making assumptions just makes an ass outta u.
 
Last edited:

Drippy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
753
Did you seriously just come to the Lucas subforum to complain? If so, that's pretty low, dude.

Plus, I can't tell if you're being serious or not, probably not, but this notion is so wrong it's not even funny.

His jabs and tilts are completely different from Ness's.
As well as his aerials.
His smashes usmash and dsmash are different from Ness's. Side smash is similar, but comes out quicker and is shorter.
His specials, though aethetically similar, function differently from Ness's.

His neutral special is not PK Flash; it's PK Freeze. Similar functions, I suppose. Does less damage, but freezes the opponent, with greater range.
His up special has more range and the projectile has transcendent priority. His PKT2 has less knockback.
His side special travels horizontally no matter if Lucas is in the air or not. Also, instead of trapping, it just does a single hit.
His down special, the most similar to Ness's has the same function, but it's centered around his outstretched hand, which gives it a hit box when he releases it.

Lucas also gets a tether grab, something Ness does not. And his throws are completely different in terms of animation and knockback.

So, instead of dismissing Lucas as a clone, learn to actually, like, um, ya know, research crap? And know what you're actually talking about? Making assumptions just makes an *** outta u.
His post reeks of troll but if he's being serious... well... your post was really well-written and hopefully people will stop being ignorant and actually do some research for making such claims. Especially in a forum filled of people who like said character.
 
Last edited:

Bearbuddy4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
229
NNID
bearbuddy3
Did you seriously just come to the Lucas subforum to complain? If so, that's pretty low, dude.

Plus, I can't tell if you're being serious or not, probably not, but this notion is so wrong it's not even funny.

His jabs and tilts are completely different from Ness's.
As well as his aerials.
His smashes usmash and dsmash are different from Ness's. Side smash is similar, but comes out quicker and is shorter.
His specials, though aethetically similar, function differently from Ness's.

His neutral special is not PK Flash; it's PK Freeze. Similar functions, I suppose. Does less damage, but freezes the opponent, with greater range.
His up special has more range and the projectile has transcendent priority. His PKT2 has less knockback.
His side special travels horizontally no matter if Lucas is in the air or not. Also, instead of trapping, it just does a single hit.
His down special, the most similar to Ness's has the same function, but it's centered around his outstretched hand, which gives it a hit box when he releases it.

Lucas also gets a tether grab, something Ness does not. And his throws are completely different in terms of animation and knockback.

So, instead of dismissing Lucas as a clone, learn to actually, like, um, ya know, research? And know what you're actually talking about? Making assumptions just makes an *** outta u.

Hey now, I didn't insult anyone at least. Just expressed disappointment and a backhanded comment.
But let me be serious for a second.


Yes it is quite inappropriate to comment on this thread when I clearly know lucas lovers watch it. Its just frustrating to see Brawl lucas come back. Its the exact same situation as Mario and Dr.Mario.

I didn't mean to be rude to lucas lovers, I'm frustrated with his lack of originality.

They look similar, the have similar moves with different physics , colors, etc.
Yes lucas has an ice "b" but ...its the same thing. Just blue and looks like ice, like you said it also does different dmg and shoots the enemy in a different direction.
But as far as uniqueness this is grasping at straws. Its laziness from sakurai who doesen't feel like putting extra hours into making Lucas's final smash a different move. Same reason why fox and falco have the same final smash.

I like earthbound and lucas, but I'm annoyed that Sakurai did so little with Lucas. Its just laziness. He could have made him more unique and fun, but instead he changed some values , dmg, animations.

Just look at mewtwo, its melee mewtwo, I was so angry to see that he couldn't make new moves, like psystrike. He even kept his confusion and his twirly over "b" thing. Which everyone hates.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

"Download Complete."
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
13,424
Location
Down on the corner, out in the street.
Hey now, I didn't insult anyone at least. Just expressed disappointment and a backhanded comment.
But let me be serious for a second.


Yes it is quite inappropriate to comment on this thread when I clearly know lucas lovers watch it. Its just frustrating to see Brawl lucas come back. Its the exact same situation as Mario and Dr.Mario.

I didn't mean to be rude to lucas lovers, I'm frustrated with his lack of originality.

They look similar, the have similar moves with different physics , colors, etc.
Yes lucas has an ice "b" but ...its the same thing. Just blue and looks like ice, like you said it also does different dmg and shoots the enemy in a different direction.
But as far as uniqueness this is grasping at straws. Its laziness from sakurai who doesen't feel like putting extra hours into making Lucas's final smash a different move. Same reason why fox and falco have the same final smash.

I like earthbound and lucas, but I'm annoyed that Sakurai did so little with Lucas. Its just laziness. He could have made him more unique and fun, but instead he changed some values , dmg, animations.

Just look at mewtwo, its melee mewtwo, I was so angry to see that he couldn't make new moves, like psystrike. He even kept his confusion and his twirly over "b" thing. Which everyone hates.
You know, next time if you actually want to direct your annoyance at Sakurai because of Lucas being a clone, you should probably word it better next time.

And I mean ALOT better. Sakurai =/= Smash community.
And what were you trying to prove with the PK Ice point?


Also, I love how people throw around "clone" so carelessly.
For real, like none of the "clones" are actually clones. They're different from their original counter parts besides how the moves look visually.

If you want an actual clone you know what you do? Get character "A" and make a skin for character "B" and make everything on character "B" the same as character "A". That's a real clone.


And also everyone hated Mewtwo's confusion and Disable because they were trash in Melee.


IN MELEE. Not the moves in general >_<

Anyway, now I finished my rant its time to move on from this pointless argument >_>
 

Bearbuddy4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
229
NNID
bearbuddy3
You know, next time if you actually want to direct your annoyance at Sakurai because of Lucas being a clone, you should probably word it better next time.

And I mean ALOT better. Sakurai =/= Smash community.
And what were you trying to prove with the PK Ice point?


Also, I love how people throw around "clone" so carelessly.
For real, like none of the "clones" are actually clones. They're different from their original counter parts besides how the moves look visually.

If you want an actual clone you know what you do? Get character "A" and make a skin for character "B" and make everything on character "B" the same as character "A". That's a real clone.


And also everyone hated Mewtwo's confusion and Disable because they were trash in Melee.

Hey...I was drinking last night. Sorry

IN MELEE. Not the moves in general >_<

Anyway, now I finished my rant its time to move on from this pointless argument >_>
Hey...I was drinking last night sorry.
 
Last edited:

Putuk

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
1,286
Location
None of your beeswax!
3DS FC
2723-9688-6533
Switch FC
SW-8387-2163-6416
On the whole "clone" debate: in my humble opinion, Lucas is a shining example of how a clone character should be handled: nearly all A button moves are unique, has a tether and specials with just different enough properties to make them useful in different situations. What you get is a character clearly based on another, however with a different playstyle.

The same cannot be said for the clones introduced in Melee or Smash 4.
 
Last edited:

Drippy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
753
Hey now, I didn't insult anyone at least. Just expressed disappointment and a backhanded comment.
But let me be serious for a second.


Yes it is quite inappropriate to comment on this thread when I clearly know lucas lovers watch it. Its just frustrating to see Brawl lucas come back. Its the exact same situation as Mario and Dr.Mario.

I didn't mean to be rude to lucas lovers, I'm frustrated with his lack of originality.

They look similar, the have similar moves with different physics , colors, etc.
Yes lucas has an ice "b" but ...its the same thing. Just blue and looks like ice, like you said it also does different dmg and shoots the enemy in a different direction.
But as far as uniqueness this is grasping at straws. Its laziness from sakurai who doesen't feel like putting extra hours into making Lucas's final smash a different move. Same reason why fox and falco have the same final smash.

I like earthbound and lucas, but I'm annoyed that Sakurai did so little with Lucas. Its just laziness. He could have made him more unique and fun, but instead he changed some values , dmg, animations.

Just look at mewtwo, its melee mewtwo, I was so angry to see that he couldn't make new moves, like psystrike. He even kept his confusion and his twirly over "b" thing. Which everyone hates.

You can't blame Sakurai for Lucas looking like Ness I mean that's his canon appearance and Itoi designed him to look that way probably to keep in line with the appearance of all protagonist in the Mother series. Now what would've been nice is if they added alternate costumes like Lucas's pajamas or Pigmask outfit but it seems for some odd reason Sakurai isn't big on costumes. Also in terms of special moves, both Lucas and Ness don't have any special thing about their PSI abilities at all really. They've always been support-like characters with one really powerful offensive PSI, and that's especially noticeable within Lucas when he has Offense / Defense Up, a bunch of healing skills, a shield move, and a counter. The only other offensive move he has is PK Flash and this is already self-explanatory. How do you implement a fun / good moveset when the only PSI abilities he has open to him is: Recovery Move / Counter / Shield. Tbh I don't want another Counter moves and personally don't find them interesting (and it won't really make him unique when 10 other characters have one), a Shielding mechanic COULD possibly be interesting to make him take reduced damage but I'm not sure how they'd implement that. The only interesting thing would replacing his down special and possibly implementing it to be like Wii Fit Trainer's down B, healing a little bit as well as giving him Offense Up or Defense Up (two in one and is unique to his character) but that's really all they could do to make him more unique.

Also assuming they followed the pattern of X teammate teaches Lucas how to do X move, well Duster is still a very support-like character and can only afflict ailments on enemies like smokebombs (decreases enemy accuracy), a snag beetle (makes enemy annoyed with sound), a staple (holds enemy down), a pendulum (enemy fall asleeps), a scary mask (decreases enemy offense), and a tickle stick (decreases enemy defense). I would like to see how they'd implement any of that at all to Lucas's moveset including Lucas never really striked me as a really strategic character anyways that would use tools such as these. Other possible move would PK Ground from Kumatora but I can just imagining it working exactly like Donkey's Kong down B so in a way it wouldn't be unique anyways unless it was his smash attack. Lastly the only thing aside from a Recovery Move that could make Lucas slightly more unique is to implement the rhythm combo mechanic from the game into his moveset similar to Marth's Dancing Blade and making you learn the timing of the move similar to the actual game but that would most likely mean PK Fire would be removed.

Like I really don't see how Sakurai could have made Lucas unique IMO aside from those two things I've mentioned and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to do something similar to Offense Up / Defense Up as the Neutral B considering Project M is already doing that and even than that's only one move. Even in Project M when they try to make the character more like their game, Lucas isn't much different and his PK Freeze is basically a better PK Fire that functions similarly but just looks different and has a different name.

Also I wouldn't even compare Lucas and Ness with Dr Mario and Mario. Dr Mario has a few differences from Mario while Lucas has a huge list of them, as said by @ elusiveTranscendent elusiveTranscendent , their jabs / tilt / smash (aside from f-smash which is similar but different properties), and aerials are different. Dr Mario has the same exact jabs / tilts / etc. aside from down air, and the major difference about his special moves is his down special while the rest are like Mario's but with different properties. I'm not trying to say Sakurai isn't lazy because I personally find it ridiculous how characters like Lucina weren't just included as alts and also how we still don't have costumes for characters and only recolors.

On the whole "clone" debate: in my humble opinion, Lucas is a shining example of how a clone character should be handled: nearly all A button moves are unique, has a tether and specials with just different enough properties to make them useful in different situations. What you get is a character clearly based on another, however with a different playstyle.

The same cannot be said for the clones introduced in Meele or Smash 4.
This so much. I wouldn't care that Lucina or Dark Pit were in this game if they were unique in terms of their normal attacks but they are just blatant clones with very minor differences.
 

Bearbuddy4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
229
NNID
bearbuddy3
You can't blame Sakurai for Lucas looking like Ness I mean that's his canon appearance and Itoi designed him to look that way probably to keep in line with the appearance of all protagonist in the Mother series. Now what would've been nice is if they added alternate costumes like Lucas's pajamas or Pigmask outfit but it seems for some odd reason Sakurai isn't big on costumes. Also in terms of special moves, both Lucas and Ness don't have any special thing about their PSI abilities at all really. They've always been support-like characters with one really powerful offensive PSI, and that's especially noticeable within Lucas when he has Offense / Defense Up, a bunch of healing skills, a shield move, and a counter. The only other offensive move he has is PK Flash and this is already self-explanatory. How do you implement a fun / good moveset when the only PSI abilities he has open to him is: Recovery Move / Counter / Shield. Tbh I don't want another Counter moves and personally don't find them interesting (and it won't really make him unique when 10 other characters have one), a Shielding mechanic COULD possibly be interesting to make him take reduced damage but I'm not sure how they'd implement that. The only interesting thing would replacing his down special and possibly implementing it to be like Wii Fit Trainer's down B, healing a little bit as well as giving him Offense Up or Defense Up (two in one and is unique to his character) but that's really all they could do to make him more unique.

Also assuming they followed the pattern of X teammate teaches Lucas how to do X move, well Duster is still a very support-like character and can only afflict ailments on enemies like smokebombs (decreases enemy accuracy), a snag beetle (makes enemy annoyed with sound), a staple (holds enemy down), a pendulum (enemy fall asleeps), a scary mask (decreases enemy offense), and a tickle stick (decreases enemy defense). I would like to see how they'd implement any of that at all to Lucas's moveset including Lucas never really striked me as a really strategic character anyways that would use tools such as these. Other possible move would PK Ground from Kumatora but I can just imagining it working exactly like Donkey's Kong down B so in a way it wouldn't be unique anyways unless it was his smash attack. Lastly the only thing aside from a Recovery Move that could make Lucas slightly more unique is to implement the rhythm combo mechanic from the game into his moveset similar to Marth's Dancing Blade and making you learn the timing of the move similar to the actual game but that would most likely mean PK Fire would be removed.

Like I really don't see how Sakurai could have made Lucas unique IMO aside from those two things I've mentioned and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to do something similar to Offense Up / Defense Up as the Neutral B considering Project M is already doing that and even than that's only one move. Even in Project M when they try to make the character more like their game, Lucas isn't much different and his PK Freeze is basically a better PK Fire that functions similarly but just looks different and has a different name.

Also I wouldn't even compare Lucas and Ness with Dr Mario and Mario. Dr Mario has a few differences from Mario while Lucas has a huge list of them, as said by @ elusiveTranscendent elusiveTranscendent , their jabs / tilt / smash (aside from f-smash which is similar but different properties), and aerials are different. Dr Mario has the same exact jabs / tilts / etc. aside from down air, and the major difference about his special moves is his down special while the rest are like Mario's but with different properties. I'm not trying to say Sakurai isn't lazy because I personally find it ridiculous how characters like Lucina weren't just included as alts and also how we still don't have costumes for characters and only recolors.



This so much. I wouldn't care that Lucina or Dark Pit were in this game if they were unique in terms of their normal attacks but they are just blatant clones with very minor differences.
Damn, thats a long well thought out response. I will be honest and say I only read 2 paragraphs but it still looked good.
 

Drippy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
753
Damn, thats a long well thought out response. I will be honest and say I only read 2 paragraphs but it still looked good.
It's fine, after I finished typing up I actually shortened it a little lol. Well in summary although it would be interesting to see what Sakurai could do in terms of a new moveset, he doesn't have much to work from. Lucas is a really support-like character and really the only interest thing he could do is Offense Up (but PM has that already and it would seem like copying), a recovery buff ability like Wii Fit Trainer's Down B, or using the rhythm combo mechanic from the game but I don't know how he'd do that without it looking like Marth's Dancing Blade. And basically I agree that it is pretty lazy he doesn't do other stuff like character costumes because Lucas was made to look similar to Ness, it was simply how he was designed but it doesn't mean they can't do stuff like the Commander Outfit or the Pajamas worn in game by Lucas.
 

Capybara Gaming

Just Vibing
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
9,502
Location
Big Talking Volcano
Almost as much hype as Mewtwo! A whole new character to Smash with! I like to play as everyone at least a little, and it's great to have Lucas back. He looks so much better, those combos look great! So much hype.
 
Top Bottom