Lucario vs Ranged

[Moli]

So after playing lucario for a few months, I've learned from experience and other lucarios that lucario has a pretty crappy approach, for the most part you just kind of hang back and let your opponents approach you and make a mistake. Yes he has double team to go in try to get a hit and then double team back, but it's pretty predictable like a roll. For the most part this actually works but against a lot of ranged characters example; Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Link, Toon Link, Lucas, Mewtwo, Ness, Snake and Pit (spacies too but they are always a *****...shine wavedash shine wavedash...) I find it really hard to not only try to approach them but even hang back. So much is usually going on and most of these characters can keep a good amount of pressure on lucario to make him have to play aggressive and then punish him. I would like to know what are some of the best tactics for going about this. Link, Toon Link and Samus in particular are the ones that cause me the most stress. Yes I try Fair on the projectiles, yes i try to down b through them but even then if they know what they are doing they can keep the pressure up. Another thing is not only trying to fight them but also getting around their edgeguards. What are some tips about fighting ranged characters in general?

 

[Giygacoal]

Long-ranged characters will usually be tough, but you can help yourself with dash-dancing and poking with Aura Sphere.

 

[Risky]

Double Team is extremely effective against projectiles including Boomerang. It's super hard to punish (a hitbox has to be already out where you land for you to get hit before you can shield) and you can cancel it into any invincible aerial, tilt, or smash that you want. Aura Sphere trades with almost every projectile allowing you to mix up your approach timings or even pressure them with projectiles and followups depending on when you shoot it. I love his Neutral B and use it a lot in my neutral against every character.

You mentioned Fair on projectiles, but you can often just dash at a Link and dash attack a Boomerang on reaction. It's not particularly hard to do, and you don't have to commit to the air. You have to be patient and have an answer for every Boomerang he throws. The same applies to Samus Missiles, Mario Fireballs, whatever you're against. People tend to throw their stuff in the same patterns, and Double Team really helps abuse that. Mixed with clanking and just shielding you should be able to get in.

 

[AnguzBeef]

Double Team is extremely effective against projectiles including Boomerang. It's super hard to punish (a hitbox has to be already out where you land for you to get hit before you can shield) and you can cancel it into any invincible aerial, tilt, or smash that you want. Aura Sphere trades with almost every projectile allowing you to mix up your approach timings or even pressure them with projectiles and followups depending on when you shoot it. I love his Neutral B and use it a lot in my neutral against every character.

By invincible aerials do you mean like a fair >double team?

 

[Darkgun]

By invincible aerials do you mean like a fair >double team?

The first few frames (though I don't know just how many frames...) of a Double Team Cancel (DTC) are intangible. Because of this, the move is relatively safe and makes for a great reversal tool.

 

[Risky]

By invincible aerials do you mean like a fair >double team?

I mean Double Team canceled into an aerial.

 

[HK_Spadez]

anyone have any advice for the link matchup? its like every time i get a hit on that guy and start my combo. boomerang hits me. and its gg i get grabbed into 3 up tilts and another boomerang is thrown at me

 

[Risky]

You can Down-B through Boomerangs pretty safely and if spaced correctly you'll be almost on top of him. You can dash at him and DA Boomerangs on reaction, and OHC into DT or Aura Sphere. This can be done with Fair too. Aura Sphere trades with most of his projectiles even when charged, so I prefer not to charge it for the speed/distance. I also try to throw it when I know his Boomerang is out and he's doing whatever, as it can create a lot of pressure if you follow it in, or even jump forward and throw another one.

With all of these possibilities available to challenge his projectile game you want to mix them up all the time so he's afraid of you and unsure of what you're going to do when he throws his next Boomerang.

Link has a few good ground attacks in Jab and Dsmash to keep you out, as well as Nair (his other aerials aren't particularly safe). Zair can be pretty soulcrushing too. Fortunately for us we can crouch cancel all of those options rather well, and if we're close enough to him simply Dtilt into whatever you please (usually FP or Usmash to prevent CC options and get him airborne). If Link doesn't space you correctly and you actually get to attack his shield he's basically free. His spot dodge is fast, his roll is nothing special, and Up-B out of shield isn't even safe on hit until later %'s (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9k0jjIw9u4 at 3:50). You don't have to go crazy on the shield pressure, if you DA his shield into DT he will often buffer a roll on reaction and you can follow up, or simply be behind Link with him still shielding and having no real punish. DA -> ASC is good too. Comboing Link is a matter of your own understanding of character weights. FP is good against him though.

Recovering against Link isn't particularly hard. Save your DT if he's charging up an arrow. Be careful trying to sweetspot if he's right near the ledge, his Up-B is a thing. Edgeguarding Link would be you ideally Up-B stalling on the ledge to avoid bombs as he comes back, and Dair/Bair his tether when he uses it, use ledge invincibility to punish his Up-B with Nair. Dair is good if he's recovering low with Up-B. Link is pretty susceptible to aFP kills, and your throws/combos can simply lead to it if he's near the edge.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

anyone have any advice for the link matchup? its like every time i get a hit on that guy and start my combo. boomerang hits me. and its gg i get grabbed into 3 up tilts and another boomerang is thrown at me

Don't get hit as often, learn how to shield his projectile game more and then work on getting in his face.

 

[HK_Spadez]

Don't get hit as often, learn how to shield his projectile game more and then work on getting in his face.

no no. i mean. when "I" get a hit on him. the problem isnt him hitting me. its that i cant do my lucario combos on someone when the boomerang is about to come back and bite me in the ass

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

no no. i mean. when "I" get a hit on him. the problem isnt him hitting me. its that i cant do my lucario combos on someone when the boomerang is about to come back and bite me in the ***

That's something you need to just be mindful of when playing against Link.

Try and learn the distance and speed of it, it's something that you kinda just gotta learn by playing as him or against him.

 

[KhanYe]

cross over mid-combo if you're fearful of the returning boomerang with a double team, possibly followed with a pivot grab, down smash or some ****.

 

[AnguzBeef]

Any mario specific help? I get my ass handed too me every time I face a good mario player

 

[AkashSky]

Is down Bing through mario fire balls as good as using it to get through boomerangs? I wouldn't think so due to the fireballs variable trajectory, but if you are close enough, I think a fair through the first fireball into a down B could get you close enough to mario to do a possible punish.