Lucario = New Ban?

[fluffy]

I learned that Lucario can learn both protect and detect. So here's a sick moveset for this dog.

>protect
>detect
>toxic
>extreme speed

Obviously, you use toxic 1st. Then switch off protect to detect, and likewise. Extreme speed is there for the finish. I mean honestly, only 5 pokemon can learn Extreme speed and Lucario had to be one of them!

For this, you may want to use Lucario towards the end....when it's a 1v1 match because detect has a base of 5 PPs and may run out. The only problem I see here....is facing a pokemon that can't be poisoned (snorlax and steel) and pokemon that uses the attack, feint (which almost no one ever uses).

Can anyone please tell me the downside to this. Because i'm thinking of using Lucario because of this. thanx.

(credit to lowradiation8989 for finding out that Lucario can learn both protect/detect)

**EDIT**
dont do drugs!

 

[TombStone]

Finally! I was wondering when I found a pokemon that could learn this moveset. Its not an uber set, but it is the epitome of staller. Kind of funny, seeing as Lucario can also be any kind of sweeper as well.

Well, walling this would be anything that can learn rest, steel and poison types, or the opponent just switching to a blissey and healing the team. Plus, you'd have to PPmax out most of the moves, or it'll be drained after the first pokemon (assuming that the opponent is dumb enough to stay in the battle).

I don't know of any team that lacks a steel type, and many also feature a Blissey. Also imagine going up against someone with pressure.

Technically, I think 7 can learn Extremespeed, but 3 of them are ubers, and 1 of them is Smeargle after sketching the move. But yeah, seriously, why do people think he's so overrated? He can learn stuff like Extremespeed, AuraSphere (STABBED omg), Dragon Pulse, Close Combat, Swords Dance, and Me First naturally, and then we get to TMs and Egg moves... Plus, he's a steel type, so he has some great resistances (though some admittedly BAD weaknesses), and he can serve as an annoyer, as pointed out by fluffy, or a physical/special/mixed sweeper. He is probably one of the most unpredictable pokemon I know.

 

[MasterMatt]

cant hitmontop, hitmonchan, and hitmonlee learn detect and protect...

 

[fluffy]

hitmonlee can only learn protect.
hitmonchan can only learn protect.
hitmontop can only learn protect.

(checked on serebii)

maybe they can on the 3rd generations games, but i doubt that.

btw the chick was black so you decide if she was hot lol.

 

[MasterMatt]

hitmonlee can only learn protect.
hitmonchan can only learn protect.
hitmontop can only learn protect.

(checked on serebii)

maybe they can on the 3rd generations games, but i doubt that.

btw the chick was black so you decide if she was hot lol.

dude, you are wrong.... quite a few pokemon can learn protect and detect.... best combo with it is with yanmega- use protect and detect until its speed boost maxes out its speed...
here is a link if you dont believe me-http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/detect.shtml i am pretty sure i am right on this one...
and about the chick, errrr uhhhh i dont want to sound like a racist, so i will not judge a girls hotness by her race....

 

[lowradiation8989]

I learned that Lucario can learn both protect and detect. So here's a sick moveset for this dog.

>protect
>detect
>toxic
>extreme speed

Obviously, you use toxic 1st. Then switch off protect to detect, and likewise. Extreme speed is there for the finish. I mean honestly, only 5 pokemon can learn Extreme speed and Lucario had to be one of them!

For this, you may want to use Lucario towards the end....when it's a 1v1 match because detect has a base of 5 PPs and may run out. The only problem I see here....is facing a pokemon that can't be poisoned (snorlax and steel) and pokemon that uses the attack, feint (which almost no one ever uses).

Can anyone please tell me the downside to this. Because i'm thinking of using Lucario because of this. thanx.

(credit to lowradiation8989 for finding out that Lucario can learn both protect/detect)

**EDIT**
dont do drugs!

haha, thanks for the credit.......yeah, i'm making one right now......and i think i'll hold it in reserve for a few wi-fi battles

it shouldn't be banned.........i mean, if someone really wants a team that can counter EVERY strategy, then they should think of using feint........idk about detect, but it can definitely break thru protect

 

[Chiko_]

Gengar is even more unpredictable, with a lot of sets who actually works great.

But Protect-Detect isn't a eternal combo. I've tried it before, actually.. Detected, Protected and Detected another time, and it failed. And it's easy to avoid Toxic anyway.

 

[fluffy]

Gengar is even more unpredictable, with a lot of sets who actually works great.

But Protect-Detect isn't a eternal combo. I've tried it before, actually.. Detected, Protected and Detected another time, and it failed. And it's easy to avoid Toxic anyway.

of course nothing is eternal, but it can last for over 20 turns. enough to poison you foe to death. since your switching from protect to detect over again....the chance of it to fail should not increase due to its succession. unless of course, evasion techniques were used. if it were to fail, lucario being steel still has a nice defense. nothing is ultimate but this combo is still pretty unpredicatble and strong.

 

[FastFox]

What about when faced with another staller? Something with... Recover, for example, or any other health-restoring move? Come to think of it, what about something with high-speed and substitute? A jolteon with an already amazing speed, leftovers, substitute, and agility, combined with another attack?

 

[Chiko_]

Like I said, it failed the third turn. I think that protect and detect does count as one attack, so the combo is pretty wasted. It's like a protect with some extra PP's, nothing more.

What about when faced with another staller? Something with... Recover, for example, or any other health-restoring move? Come to think of it, what about something with high-speed and substitute? A jolteon with an already amazing speed, leftovers, substitute, and agility, combined with another attack?

You know, Toxic does a little more damage every turn. Rest is probably the only recoverymove who'll work. But it's a reason that people doesn't use stallers that much. Steel, Poison and Substitute counter it pretty easily.

 

[FastFox]

Like I said, it failed the third turn. I think that protect and detect does count as one attack, so the combo is pretty wasted. It's like a protect with some extra PP's, nothing more.


You know, Toxic does a little more damage every turn. Rest is probably the only recoverymove who'll work. But it's a reason that people doesn't use stallers that much. Steel, Poison and Substitute counter it pretty easily.

Well what I meant to say was, Jolteon's speed is amazing, and if he gave up leftovers for a salac berry, he'd get his sub in before Luc got in a toxic.

 

[lowradiation8989]

What about when faced with another staller? Something with... Recover, for example, or any other health-restoring move? Come to think of it, what about something with high-speed and substitute? A jolteon with an already amazing speed, leftovers, substitute, and agility, combined with another attack?

toxic would overcome it, unless you were able to switch out..........toxic's damage increases by turn (1/16, 2/16, 3/16...etc), hence the term "badly poisoned".........leftovers only icreases by 1/6 each turn, and recover will do the same by 1/2, which is equal to 8/16.........so after 8 turns of being badly poisoned by toxic, recover would virtually become useless

of course, switching out will eliminate toxic's effect, and when you switch the pokemon in again, it will just be regularly poisoned, with only 1/16 (i think) damage each turn

and of course, once the opponent is down to a low enough hp, lucario can finish it off with extreme speed, which would always go first, provided the opponent doesn't use it either, while also having a faster speed

 

[frenchfri]

Detect and Protect are both on the same "counter", so you can't use them interchangebly forever. After you use Detect, then on the next turn, whether you use Protect or Detect, it will only have that 50% of succeeding.

 

[Shiri]

As far as my knowledge goes, Protect and Detect run off of the same counter.

Of course, I'm not even going to mention the fact that this is 1] although a novel idea, a waste of a good pkmn, and 2] a free invitation to anything with any sort of defense and a stat up move (with Baton Pass optional) to come set up on your team. Even if the two moves didn't run off the same counter, stat uppers have plenty of PP, so one could stall you out of literally an entire pkmn moveset (especially with steel/poison typing, Natural Cure, Aromatherapy, etc.).

Nice try, though. However, Lucario deserves better, I think.

P.S. - Hey, guy-who-posted-above-me. Way to be a jerk, LOL.

 

[fluffy]

Detect and Protect are both on the same "counter", so you can't use them interchangebly forever. After you use Detect, then on the next turn, whether you use Protect or Detect, it will only have that 50% of succeeding.

is that true?

i wish they could be more clear with the description of the attack then haha.

it was a good idea while it lasted.

 

[fluffy]

since im saddened, im going to double post.

lock this thread

 

[Shiri]

toxic would overcome it, unless you were able to switch out..........toxic's damage increases by turn (1/16, 2/16, 3/16...etc), hence the term "badly poisoned".........leftovers only icreases by 1/6 each turn, and recover will do the same by 1/2, which is equal to 8/16.........so after 8 turns of being badly poisoned by toxic, recover would virtually become useless

of course, switching out will eliminate toxic's effect, and when you switch the pokemon in again, it will just be regularly poisoned, with only 1/16 (i think) damage each turn

and of course, once the opponent is down to a low enough hp, lucario can finish it off with extreme speed, which would always go first, provided the opponent doesn't use it either, while also having a faster speed

Well, a few things.

First off, if anybody can help it, they certainly won't keep a pkmn afflicted with Toxic in battle for too long. When you mention the damage reset after switching out, that was only in Red, Blue, and Yellow. Now, when you switch out of Toxic and come back in, the damage starts over from 1/16, but adds on as time goes by just like normal (that is to say, just like it should).

Secondly, Toxic doesn't affect substitutes, which is what I think FastFox was trying to convey. Jolteon could come in, sub on the first turn (since it's faster than you and your entire generation, ROFL), and then stall you out of protect/detect/toxic, set up for speed passing to ______, which will proceed to wreak untold amounts of havoc upon the opposing team. Well, I'm overdramatizing that a bit, but you get the idea.

At any rate, this set is countered completely and totally by a level 1 Gastly. Just something to consider.

 

[fluffy]

no shiri.

ghastly would die from struggle.

 

[lowradiation8989]

Well, a few things.

First off, if anybody can help it, they certainly won't keep a pkmn afflicted with Toxic in battle for too long. When you mention the damage reset after switching out, that was only in Red, Blue, and Yellow. Now, when you switch out of Toxic and come back in, the damage starts over from 1/16, but adds on as time goes by just like normal (that is to say, just like it should).

Secondly, Toxic doesn't affect substitutes, which is what I think FastFox was trying to convey. Jolteon could come in, sub on the first turn (since it's faster than you and your entire generation, ROFL), and then stall you out of protect/detect/toxic, set up for speed passing to ______, which will proceed to wreak untold amounts of havoc upon the opposing team. Well, I'm overdramatizing that a bit, but you get the idea.

At any rate, this set is countered completely and totally by a level 1 Gastly. Just something to consider.

*sigh*........that's why both me and fluffy agreed to keep this "combo" till the opponent had 1 pokemon left.......why are we even arguing this anymore?

we know it DOESN'T work now, lol!

 

[Chill]

To say such and such would counter this is a moot point becasue every set has a counter. What's more important is that this does not seem to work rendering your strategy useless.

 

[9Kplus1]

To counter that moveset, Use Metagross, that's all and Detect and Protect work as if they were used twice in a row, I know this because that's what I tried on my Sceptile and it didn't work, Lucario has an almost a 100% OHKO when hit with an EQ so, that's just useless.

 

[FastFox]

Secondly, Toxic doesn't affect substitutes, which is what I think FastFox was trying to convey. Jolteon could come in, sub on the first turn (since it's faster than you and your entire generation, ROFL), and then stall you out of protect/detect/toxic, set up for speed passing to ______, which will proceed to wreak untold amounts of havoc upon the opposing team. Well, I'm overdramatizing that a bit, but you get the idea.

THANK YOU.

This is what I was getting at.

 

[Deleted member]

or you could use my lucario set which is amazing

lucario @ focus sash
calm mind
aura sphere
psychic
dark pulse
modest, 252 spe att 252 spd 4 hp

 

[CaliburChamp]

I tried the protect and detect combo for R/S on my Sableye. It's still ends up failing. And it still applies to D/P. My feelings were hurt when I found out it didnt work either.

 

[Shiri]

Boo @ Mow's Lucario set.

No, I'm not jealous. >_>

 

[Chiko_]

Lucario iz liek teh 1337 SubReversaler

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

There is a way for Protect and Detect to always work WITHOUT having to use either one...

Wonder Guard Spiritomb.

LOL ROFL PURE OWNAGE.

Anyways...

lolz at the Lucario set getting owned by a Lv 1 Gastly.

Hey, if it can get owned by a level 1 Gastly, then how about...

A Lv 1 Magikarp!

Right? Am I right or what?

*cricket chirp*



ANYWAYS...

Yeah, Metagross can own that Lucario moveset. Pretty much, any Poke immune to Toxic and resistant to ExtremeSpeed. Like...

A Lv 1 Shieldon!

Or, any Poke that can take the Toxic hit and quickly KO, since Protect-Detect-Protect, etc. doesn't work.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

PS. Sorry for my bad jokes...