Lucario Matchup Thread: Kirby!

[Timbers]

Hopefully not imposing, but I'll take my chances. We are currently discussing Lucario vs. Kirby over at the Lucario boards and it's Kirby's' chance to shine. =P! If you feel you can contribute to this matchup, then please do!


-What specific troubles do you have with Lucario as a Kirby player? Does Lucario shut down any of your game?


-What advantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-What disadvantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-Is there any method or strategic goal you would use to win this match?


I would greatly appreciate it if players of the board would give their input on the matches, thanks!

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

-What specific troubles do you have with Lucario as a Kirby player?
Lucario's aerial range and priority, also i played a very campy Lucario and it was very very hard to approach, of course i took Lucario's power and camped back but Kirby isn't really a campy character so it wasnt as effective.

Does Lucario shut down any of your game?
Not really, approaching requires a little more skill but not enough for it to make things difficult
However, if the Lucario is campy and can space well Kirby will have a tough time playing the match since he's a passive-aggressive type of character

-What advantages do you feel Lucario has against you?
Like i said, his aerial range and his neutral A is a *****

-What disadvantages do you feel Lucario has against you?
Can be combo'd and gimped very very easily

-Is there any method or strategic goal you would use to win this match?
Get lucario off the edge and spam Bair or wait for an upB recovery from Lucario and stagespike him (inhale, spit under the stage, Bair into the stage or upB spike.

I would greatly appreciate it if players of the board would give their input on the matches, thanks!

 

[T-nuts]

lucario's dair shuts down kirby's uair and his extremely fast roll dodge can make an aerial approach difficult, but it is still probably kirby's best bet because a ground approach will get stifled by aura sphere and lucario's long range. his aura sphere can be annoying. at higher percents lucarios fsmash and dair can kill kirby at very low percents. but lucarios be warned: of all abilities to copy, lucario's is probably the #1 most useful for kirby (at least top 5). HOWEVER, kirby should never copy a lucario at high % because lucario can immediately use dair after kirby swallows him and connect with it (which is bull). also i would say lucario has the advantage on the ground for the most part.

lucario is not that heavy but still somewhat comboable...however lucario probably would have a hard time comboing kirby. umm lucario can never gimp kirby but kirby could somewhat easily gimp lucario, which is lucario's worst nightmare because he will never reach a high percent and therefore never reach a higher power level (probably over 9000). utilt and bair out of shield **** lucario. utilt is instant and sets up combos. also, i would say kirby has the advantage in the air for the most part, epecially if lucario is on the ground.

as kirby, i would approach from the air, probably with bair for the most part but some dair, fair, and even nair. i would go for throws at low percents and even somewhat at higher percents. and i would try to get a low percent gimp or maybe hammer kill. i would be conscious of dair at all times. i would use copy as it is extremely helpful but ONLY if the lucario does not know to use dair immediately after being swallowed.

also, know that kirby punishes spot dodgers with his dash attack. countering kirby's ground approach with an attack, and not a dodge, is your best bet.

overall i would say the matchup is pretty even...if i lost to a lucario i would feel like the player genuinely had more skill than me, and not that i lost due to a bad matchup.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

well said T i agree

 

[T-nuts]

thanks gonzo =)

 

[Timbers]

Thanks a lot SpikeSpeigel19 and T-nuts, very informative to the matchup =)

Any other takes on this match is greatly appreciated as well.

 

[MK26]

I posted some stuff in the Lucario boards...and the Lucarios think that our u-air beats out their d-air, and same with our b-air vs. their f-air.

And they all know to d-air out of swallow. No matter, low-percent aura sphere copy is hax.

Timbers, should we post our comments in the Lucario boards, or will you summarize our stuff and do it for us?

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

If were directly under the Dair then it beats us but when Kirby's Uair hitbox extends the most in front/above him.

 

[Timbers]

Luc's dair is pretty much quicker than Kirby's, as like you said, Kirby's takes a while to reach it's full peak. Still, things that outrange our dair makes it scary. =P

@MK26: Don't worry, I'll copy your guy's quotes from here and let the Luc boards know when I feel that you guys have given your input (i.e. the thread goes dead xD) =)

 

[Asdioh]

I don't have much experience against Lucarios, but I'd have to pretty much agree with Gonzo and T (particularly the over 9000 part). If you're against Kirby, take advantage of your long range attacks. I think I've seen a Lucario hit me with Dair right after swallow once, and I was just like wtf?? When you say not to do it at high percents, I'm assuming you mean when Kirby is high percent, as it will kill him?

Still again, getting the Aura Sphere is very useful for Kirby. Try to vary when you shoot and what size charges you shoot, as well as varying if it's in the air or ground, etc. I guess that's pretty obvious >_>

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Aurasphere in my opinion is the one move that i will take without hesitiation b/c it makes Kirby the ultimate camper. u can sit and camp the aurasphere all day and when ur approached Kirby's speed and high priority moves let him quickly build some space to start camping again. Its a great way to counter campy Lucario's

 

[T-nuts]

When you say not to do it at high percents, I'm assuming you mean when Kirby is high percent, as it will kill him?

Well, you have to take into consideration the percents of both characters actually because if lucario is at a high percent copying him will hurt more and you will get killed for it at a lower percent.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Thanks a lot for your input, guys! I still have a few questions I would like to ask:

First, what stages do you excel on against Lucario, and what is it about these stages that make it good for Kirby?

Also, what stages do you feel Lucario does well against you, and why?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

First, what stages do you excel on against Lucario, and what is it about these stages that make it good for Kirby?

Rainbow Cruise, Kirby can combo and then Neutral A lock to 999 or w/e damage he sees fit at the wall of the ship and at the very top of the stage also. Also Kirby can inhale and spit him out at a point where he can't return b/c the stage has no edges

Also, what stages do you feel Lucario does well against you, and why?

neutral stages with platforms, the Dair is a killer, also Lucario's uptilt and upsmash have good range through the platforms

 

[MK26]

First, what stages do you excel on against Lucario, and what is it about these stages that make it good for Kirby?

What Gonzo said. Rainbow Cruise is pretty much Kirby's end-all counterpick stage. Also u-throws to higher platforms.

Lylat Cruise might be a good choice because Lucario can't wall cling, so an edgeguard will gimp your recovery.

Halberd could also be a good choice, seeing as how Kirby has an easy time approaching on the small floating platform, and an easier time camping with aura sphere when on the ship.


Also, what stages do you feel Lucario does well against you, and why?

Most of the time the big, flat stages aren't that good for Kirby (FD, Smashville to an extent). Because Kirby has a hard time approaching. However, against Lucario, an inhale solves that problem.

In this case, Kirby should want to stay away from Yoshi's Story (wall cling, platform stuff)

In general, Kirby should go for a stage where he can gimp his opponent rather than have to kill him outright. Any stage where Lucario can abuse 'extremespeed --> wall cling' automatically destroys one of Kirby's advantages.

 

[TwilightKirby]

I think stages where lucario can die really early (be it gimp or low ceilings/close walls such as green greens and corneria) favor kirby more since kirby will have an easier time killing lucario since his attacks will generally have lower knockback.

Stages where lucario can survive easily to high percents (maybe luigis mansion? though it does limit aerial maneuverability... jungle japes is probably good) favor lucario since he will have an easier time killing kirby than kirby would have for killing lucario.