Low Tier Matchups Thread

[technomancer]

Lately I've been playing the Yoshi, and lol it's **** good. But the thing is that Falco > me and weeeelll so does everyone else on the top of the tier list, so I stick to mostly low tier crew battles/low tier MMs for playing yoshi seriously.

So I'd like to start this thread off by saying that Yoshi is by no means head and shoulders above the low tier, despite how much we know he *****. Pikachu, Link, Roy, DK, Zelda and Luigi seem to give me the most trouble, though I can fight them, and often win, I'd say that Yoshi is one of the hardest low tiers to main for low tier tournaments. So this thread is to help us out! Low Tier Matchups Thread, Go!

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
DK
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

Rater Ratings
(*****) max (*) min, (-) is a half star
!!! Notes! Any reasonable post will be put up. For the most part all posts go through discussion before I see them and put them up, and if not I'm qualified enough to judge whether or not a post is intelligent, so you can trust all of the advice in this thread to be reasonably thought-out and accurate. These ratings are not here to judge skill or who would win in a ditto or who wins all arguements, they're just so you can weight the advice in the thread.


Bringer of Death (rmusgrave)
*****
The foremost non-retired expert on Yoshi, the Bringer of Death is our board mod, and is a fantastic old-school smasher and a dominant aussie player, recording wins not only in Australia, but from what I hear, against top players like Captain Jack on occasion as well.

Shiri
****-
The warm face on the Yoshi boards. The most well-known American Yoshi, perhaps aside from Gabe, Shiri has contributed to virtually every topic, written a guide, and has been consistantly playing Yoshi in tournament since like, ever.

Velox
***-
A Texan Yoshi with tournament experience who has been around for awhile and has a good reputation.

Techno
**-
A consistant voice all over the boards, Techno is an experienced smasher from a tournament-saturated region who plays alot of good smash, though rarely makes it in time for the brackets due to his job.

Burntsocks
**
A newer player, always helpful on the Yoshi boards, but seems to be learning many things. Still, give him credit for his good advice.

-------------------------------


Link
5-5
Techno Considered by many to be the dominant low tier tournament character due to his versatality, Link is very beatable with Yoshi. The trick is just to avoid taking gobs of damage from projectiles, and to take advantage of his boomerang lag. Avoiding grabs and DjCing out of kill combos is also very pertinent.
burntsocks:see first reply! It's fairly long with lots of line breaks, and it's just one post down.

Luigi
7-3
Techno Heavy, floaty, and difficult for yoshi to edgeguard, Luigi has plenty of heavyweight KO combos, a great approach and shutdown game against Yoshi's shield, a viable heavywieight grab game, and plenty of powerful aerials.

Shiri Yoshis here are too good to fall for WD tricks, so do plenty of down tilts (watch out for short hop down air) and jabs.

Donkey Kong
6-4
Techno The big monkey is rough on Yoshi, but Yoshi is generally very strong against weighty characters. The trick is to rely on your juggles while avoiding his; cargo uthrow uair is a huge one to try to escape by either sex kicking out or smash DIing in the opposite direction of your momentum. His backair is crouchable, as are many of his moves, up through medium percents, and fsmash is great for spacing. For edgeguarding, just hop on the edge before he gets there, or try to use eggs to pop him up and mess him up. A winnable matchup for sure.

Shiri Almost as annoying as fighting the Marios, but thankfully he's very comboable. Just think about that one time you dropped your ice cream cone or that one kid who traded you a Missingno. and got all your Pokémon Red and Blue data erased. Think of whatever makes you really angry and take it out on DK. I'd actually venture to say that this match is a lot like Kirby in the ways they'll try to fight you. Techno's add Much like Kirby, but DK moves much faster than Kirby, and his moves are more powerful and combo much better, so you can't really be as carefree.

Roy
4-6
Techno Mini-Marth, Roy players are generally quick and have good mindgames, will try to do cheesy throw combos in to fsmash which don't work because the Yoshi knows to DI down. If you know the matchup really well, you should be able to 2-stock Roy no problem. Yoshi has priority over him at every turn, and can combo Roy reasonably, and edgegaurd him easily with edgehogs. Downsmash kills Roy at good percents.

Shiri aside from Mow, I've never met a Roy I've had to take seriously. This match should be really easy, even for novice Yoshis. Just do like this bright young man says and don't fall for the dumb dumb grab "combos."

Bringer of Death Roy's recovery is not one of the worst in the game. As long as the Roy DI's then he lives as long as every other character, and has one of the most disjointed and annoying up-b recoveries. Even instant edgehogging Roy can be risky if he manages to hit you with a part of his up-b which can break your double jump (which at higher % happens a lot).

His dash dance is all well and good, but if you crouch and defensively prepare for d-tilt he will have trouble grabbing you yeah? If you can defensively use d-tilt to stop grabs 70% of the time, you should be able to approach Roy by walking towards him and crouching and/or d-tilting at the right time. Hopefully this way you can pressure him into a corner where dash dancing won't help. And we all know that if Roy went airborne then you can CC his attacks and punish him.

I remember Mew2king telling me that to beat Roy you stay above his head height, because what's he gonna do? Jump and do a 4% attack on you? This will work on non-campy Roys. Campy roys will just space themselves and then grab you when you land.

And last but not least - Roy is one of the easiest characters to combo in the game. Land combo moves where possible.Velox Roy does not get beat by Yoshi... I get RAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPED by this Roy from Texas (Sethlon). I'm convinsed that nobody knows what goes down when you play a good Roy. The perils, struggles, complete desperation to escape the never ending sword swinging (see d-tilts >Bs other gayness)... When you play a good and witness the total gayness that is a camping Roy that stays just far enough away to remain aggressive you might as well just **** yourself (I suggest taunting like mad). He has total control. He's even invulnerable to most baiting mindgames, so the only way to get past the excessive camping is to overshoot the Roy with something to stop his gay dash dance away tactics, or to bait him into missing a grab or something (mindgame him). Roys that don't do any move unless it's for a reason are so nasty to play against. Roy's chasedown game is outrageous as well. I can't think of anthing Yoshi has that is especially good against Roy other than double jumping through Roy's moves. Roy just totally blows me away. It really does make me want to stop playing this game. There is like no weaknesses to a near perfect Roy. Like really, I don't even want to talk about playing against Roy, it's still very painful to me. One thing about Roy is there is no reason for Roy to really approach you, he is really campy by nature. Some people group characters in this game as "fast fallers" and "non-fast fallers". Not me. I group them into "campy characters" and "non-campy characters". Campy styles are really hard to beat especially smart players using really safe movesets and have really good reactionary reflexes.

Suggested Combos: [I'd like to add more of these sections, and I think this is pretty important in the Roy matchup]

Techno Downthrow->Downsmash is a great mindgame but doesn't often directly combo and requires mediocre->bad DI. I love that downsmash. If he DI's into you, uptilt and start the ****. Dthrow to nair or upair at higher percents to finish. Grab is actually really good in this matchup, and upsmash can be a good combo starter with it's invulnerability. Ftilt->Fsmash works at medium-low percents with bad DI and is pretty good for throwing Roy off the stage or just beasting some good damage.

Young Link
5-5

Techno Fast and agile, Young Link dies to the downsmash at ridiculous percents, and he will have to beat on you for awhile to get the kill. Still, don't underestimate him, and stay unpredictable, and like his older self, punish that boomerang lag.

Shiri A low tier more than worthy of Yoshi's attention. Crouching works well here, just don't crouch too much because that damage adds up fast, leading to what I call "flopping techs," where you attempt to CC, but the damage breaks the CC and you flail on the ground for a little bit. Young Link excels in missed and flopping techs, so try not to put yourself in this situation too much.

Pikachu
6:4/5:5
Techno A very good pika is almost impossible to handle with Yoshi. You really have to focus on landing downtilts, and you need to keep Pika from grabbing you. Speed, spacing, and your sex kick are going to be absolutely clutch in this matchup. There's not much to say here, just rely on your prediction skills to beat him to the punch; not alot of his moves will beat your forward air. Building on what Shiri said, generally avoid laggy attacks, as alot of Pika's counter shffls combo into his grab, which combos into his usmash/thunder/tailwhips and will get you in trouble. I try to stay airborne and keep good spacing so I can poke SHFFLs with a forward air, nair, or dtilt, or run to platforms.

Shiri I think I just have lots of Pikachu experience, and this matchup seems hopeless at times, but it requires lots of patience. I disagree with you on a few points, though. First, I think an average Yoshi can go toe-to-toe with a good Pikachu if the Yoshi knows what to look out for. Neutral air spam and gay up air gayness is easy to get around once you know Pikachu's mechanics. Also, I strongly advise not using downsmash at all, ever, EVER. At least not defensively. Maybe when edgeguarding, maybe. Pikachu is too quick and his grabs and smashes are too gay to let him get a hit in.

Please please please. If nothing, listen to me on this point.
Down throw to forward air. It makes Pikachu cry in the darkest corner ever cried in. EVER.

Velox
Also, Pikachu is easier that you think. It's probably even. If you know that match well there is no reason for you to fear Pikachus. About the only thing that I consider "overly nasty" about that match is Pikachu can tail spike you right out of your double jump (gay). Pikachu I would consider "not a campy character", although thunder ground thing can be gay. Most of the time though your essential strategy that will get you by in this match up is just sitting around and waiting to tilt/smash Pika out of mindless appoaches, unless the player is good.

Yoshi
It's a ditto. Apply mindgames and aggression, Yoshi is bad against smart aggression. May the best eggs win.

Techno Lol Yoshi is so bad against Yoshi. Always an entertaining fight.

Zelda
6-4
Shiri Gay. At low percents, DJ through that foot, up air and DON'T LET UP--as hard as you can, try not to let her get anywhere near the ground or to your side. Zelda's best moves in this matchup are her feet and her tilts and nobody's smart enough to use her tilts, so that's half your job done for you right there.

Techno I'll let shiri take the lead on this one, as I generally lose or at least lose most of my stock against a good Zelda. Yoshi is a big target, so try to stay crouched when you can, and space at the tip of your Dtilt. My best success on offense comes from getting in tight on her and landing an upsmash when she gets lightning kick spammy, and also just kind of figuring out which moves she likes to spam the most and finding ways to avoid and counter them, usually with my spotdodge or just by being slick. For Zelda's grab, DI behind her to avoid getting lightning kicked.

Game and Watch
3-7
Shiri Wow. Is he even a character? Forward air spam, down tilt spam, maybe some grabs...that's what any Yoshi can expect from Game and Watch. OH MAN GRAB TO DOWN THROW TO ______. I'm pretty sure it's a crime in five countries what Yoshi's grabs do to Game and Watch. Lightshield to escape the gayness if he's pressuring you (LOL @ that notion, but it happens sometimes).

Techno Downsmash, ****. Maximize your gay in this matchup and you should be able to win 101%. Don't waste your time with DjC, it'll get interrupted by a parachute or something, just spam your ground level game. A few of G&W's aerials can't be L-cancelled, which leaves him blatantly open for spotdodge->downsmash, and it shouldn't take too many of those for G&W to bite it. If you're having trouble, counter Fountain of Dreams for the close blastlines, Yoshi has an easier time running around there.

Everyone Else: zomg don't hate teh game and watch!!!1 Lol just kidding, more edits coming.

The|Egg|Sniper Whoa whoa whoa, time out. What is this "Game and Watch isn't even a character" stuff? Sure, you can do well against ground approaches, but aerially G&W has Yoshi beat. From Keydashing to that parachute, Yoshi's got a few things to worry about. Not to mention he can ToP (Turtle of Pain) Yoshi rather well since he's fat.

The reason why I bring this up is because I have G&W as a secondary...and I play other Yoshis (Now I do ). If there are smarter G&Ws out there, they'll use the insane disjointed moves to gain an edge on Yoshi.

First off, G&W can tech Yoshi's Dthrow(much like teching Fox/Falco's Dthrow for anyone), since he doesn't bounce.Something to consider.

CCing G&W's air approach can get you punished more, especially against Lcancel Keydash->dtilt or Keydash->grab. Yes, you can lightshield this, but if you don't, watch out! >.<
At low %S G&W can juggle Yoshi with utilt pretty well, with its insane range. Like many other Yoshi matches, keeping your feet firm on the ground most of the time is necessary.

Watch out for that dtilt. It's G&W's bread and butter for ground approaches.

Don't underestimate the stun of the suausage. That tiny frame of stun is enough for him to sneak a fair or spiked dair (stagespike upward).

Just a few things to mention. Don't get me wrong, Yoshi most definitely has the upper hand here, but without knowing about some more advanced G&W techniques, an ignorant Yoshi may meet his match here >.<

Ness
It really depends, since Ness is so **** weird. 4-6 to 7-3
Techno All right guys, Ness is one of Yoshi's toughest matchups if he knows how to effectively camp you. Many Ness players will take to aggression, and bring in your crouching/spacing/dodging/fsmashing game into play, which gives you a huge advantage because without a solid backair mixed in, which combos from nothing excpet the occasional rare downthrow which you DI'd wrong, Ness can't kill you by being aggressive. Ness can kill you easily, however, with a backthrow->backair edgeguard, or the occasional backthrow->PK flash, so try not to get grabbed facing an edge (which is what a campy ness is usually setting up). So, anyway, Ness camping beneath a platform is a difficult approach, because his forward air is going to eat you up, so you have to loosen him up a little with an egg or two. He'll get a little aggressive eventually. But anyway, mostly Ness is going to eat a poorly timed/spaced approach with forward airs, and any early hitting Yoshi forward airs he can just run from and backair you in your lag. A good trick is to just keep pressing his spacing by staying just out of his (crappy) range and downtilting, then creeping forward, and downtilting, until he runs out of room and has to go over you, and then you can try to spot upairs/eggs/upsmashes and start a quick juggle. If he takes a hit, just get the pressure on, and be ready to crouch as fast aerial, and get him off the stage with a downtilt or downsmash as fast as you can, so you can begin edgeguarding his up-b, which is just a matter of edgehogging him and punishing it's god-awful lag (with my favorite move, of course, downsmash).
ShiriNess is gay. He grabs. And he has better DJC combos than you in this match. So there are two ways out here. First is to find out the player's style. If they're super aggressive, you get super aggressive, too. DJC neutral airs, close proximity dash dancing, no grabbing, lots of WD back airs, NO DOWNSMASHES. If they're defensive, then it's a lot harder. Run away, toss eggs, and be gay. Forward tilt is your friend. Whatever you do, don't get hit by PK Thunder edgeguards.

The|Egg|Sniper
-Believe it or not, Ness can be hit out of his PK Thunder by Yoshi in many ways. It's risky, but at lower %s the edgeguard is worth the trouble. fair, Reverse nairs from above, and sometimes dairs all short out Ness's recovery move.
-Dthrows from him mean punishment either way you DI if he's got the smarts. DI'ing backwards sends Yoshi up for a uair from Ness's noggin, while a DI forward is a setup for a fair flurry (or, from Toasty, fair->grab->whatevuh). Watch the throws.
-Yoshi's face goes through many of Ness's attacks. Fsmash is your buddy here.
-If you're approaching with SHFFL'd fairs, be sure to cancel them. Ness can punish your lag pretty well with his grabs. Though it was suggested NOT to use Dsmashes....this would be the only time I'd recommend using it, as a trap for them.
-DJ out and eat his PK Thunder before he hits himself if you can. It's worth the 7% or so sacrifice to see him plummet to his death

Bowser
2-8
Techno Yoshi owns Bowser. Just beat on him until he dies. Instant edgehog if he even thinks about grabbing the edge. Bowser is a just a Yoshi on roids, show him that staying in school is what counts. OPTIONAL: You can beat bowser with just your toungue if you desire. Grab combos work great.

Kirby
3-7, only because Kirby is so bad >.>
Techno A tough matchup, but it just takes a little practice. Treat Kirby like a sumo wrestler. He's going to try and grab you and do stupid stuff. Just keep a little distance between you, crouch all his aerials, and land KOs where you need to. He doesn't have combos or an effecient way to kill you because your double jump is too good.
Shiri Okay, oddly enough, Kirby, Mewtwo, and Pichu I think are Yoshi's hardest matchups not in low tier, but in a low tier tourney. I say this because on paper, the matches are more or less in his favor, but in a low tier tourney, you're not very likely to find scrub Pichus, Kirbies, etc. All the scrubs are the Ness, Link, and Luigi players. Maybe some Zeldas, DK is popular too.

Right, onto the matchup. It is tough. Lots of grabs, like Techno has noted. I recommend a very grounded game for the most part. Edgeguard with all your tilts--it saves time and energy. Watch out for reverse aerial hammer to up tilt, it's actually a pretty good strat.

Pichu
4-6
Techno Play this like Pikachu, but you can be more aggressive with your smashes. Pichu will have trouble killing you without landing a forward smash, and your downtilt is much more useful for spacing due to Pichu's lack of aerial priority. It's like Pikachu ate a game and watch for breakfast.

MewTwo
6-4
Shiri Okay, Mewtwo can be tough, too. More grabs. Notice how the bad matchups all involve lots of grabs? The best part is that these guys are so tough to grab, it's honestly not worth the effort, so don't. Shadowball spam is gay, so jab them. Try fighting him like you would Dr. Mario: His tilts are bad for you, and if he grabs you, you're likely to get KO'd or take a hefty amount of damage. Neutral airs, reverse them plz. Back airs until your tail falls off. Don't downsmash. Don't grab.

Updates Oct 5: Kirby and Roy matchups updated to 3-7 in 's favor | credit Shiri/burntsocks
Added Shiri's advice on many characters. Thanks Shiri!
Oct 9: Added some stuff from Velox, Burntsocks, The|Egg|Sniper and Bringer, a few matchups changed, notably Roy.
Oct 9: More stuff from Velox on Roy, added the rater ratings section. Don't take that section too seriously, please.

 

[Deleted member]

Nice. I use Yoshi in all tourneys, but thats not the point, now is it. Ill contribute by talking about fighting link (adult). Alright here i goes:


Yoshi:
Faster
Heavier
Egg throw
In general, faster and IMO better aeriels.
Longer WD

Link:
Higher priority attacks
Longer range
Bombs and boomerangs
Auto Shield (not sure what its called).
MUCH MUCH BETTER RECOVERY


It would seem to be pretty even. Link IMO has the advantage, but barely,and Yoshi can still come out. Now, Link revolves around his bombs, boomerangs, and the combos associated with them. So all you have to do is dodge and CC his projectiles, and counter with your own attacks. Simple eh? Not really.

Things to look out for: nair, uair, dair, bombs, boomerangs. Shhfld nairs, bairs and fairs and grabs.

Bombs come out quick, and are fairly accurate, but u can WD or jump away. Boomerangs, though alone arent hard to dodge, can be a major nuasance when combined with bombs. I like to lightshield the boomerang, then counter with eggz. His sword is a disjointed hitbox, so it outprioritizes your attack generally. So far, things look bleak for Yoshi...

HOWEVER, Yoshi has a few tricks up his sleeve. Behold! Yoshi is quick! Yoshi is maneuverable! And... Yoshi is cool! The thing about link is, many of his attacks have major lag, so he is easy to punish. Also, if u can avoid his barage of projectiles, u can pretty much garentee that Link wont be able to combo u, as he revolves around those projectiles. Your DJC can get through Links attacks, and then... you can commence comboization. Link is easy to combo, so do it. Uair combos work wonders, but dont give him time to use his dair. Vertical kills work pretty well, but some of links aeriels can stop your combos. Horizontal killz are good too. Once you get link off the edge, use eggz and make sure u hit him. He has two possible recoverys. usually they will use hookshot recovery, but they have a spin attack recovery too. If they go for hookshot, try to egg them before they jump up. If they use up b, wait till they come down and hit um with a dsmash, usmash, or fsmash. You win


Edit: Watch out for Links using non charged arrows in the air. Also, Links LOVE to shffle their nairs, and fairs, both which are great moves. If he is advamcing with shflled nairs, retreating fairs from Yoshi will do the trick usually. Im not sure if ur nair beats his. For fair, its tough cuz of the disjointed hitbox and the fact that it hits behind him also, so i would say dodge it or time your dash sttack so that u hit his front right when his sword begins to go to his backside.

 

[Bloshi]

Luigi's not heavy dude...he also has crap for recovery...he just hits hard.

 

[Winnar]

Luigi's not heavy dude...he also has crap for recovery...he just hits hard.

I beg to differ, in NTSC (or is it PAL?) he's the fifth heaviest character in the game.

I cite Bringer/Shiri's pinned topics for that one.

Not enough time to help out with the matchups though. Sorry.

 

[Deleted member]

I beg to differ, in NTSC (or is it PAL?) he's the fifth heaviest character in the game.

I cite Bringer/Shiri's pinned topics for that one.

Not enough time to help out with the matchups though. Sorry.

5th heaviest? R u sure, cuz when I play Lui, he definately doesnt seem heavy. Maybe its just cuz hes floaty. W/e. I would help w/ kirby, but all ill say is that kirby is not hard at all!

 

[Shiri]

Lately I've been playing the Yoshi, and lol it's **** good.

Werd.

Link: 5-5 Considered by many to be the dominant low tier tournament character due to his versatality, Link is very beatable with Yoshi. The trick is just to avoid taking gobs of damage from projectiles, and to take advantage of his boomerang lag. Avoiding grabs and DjCing out of kill combos is also very pertinent.

Low tier tournaments that still let Link in are a joke. Fortunately, you have a relatively easy match here. Just don't get grabbed or whatever. Silly Link players.

Luigi: 7-3 Heavy, floaty, and difficult for yoshi to edgeguard, Luigi has plenty of heavyweight KO combos, a great approach and shutdown game against Yoshi's shield, a viable heavywieight grab game, and plenty of powerful aerials.

Again, doesn't belong in low tier tournies, but he's a bit harder. Yoshis here are too good to fall for WD tricks, so do plenty of down tilts (watch out for short hop down air) and jabs.

Donkey Kong: 6-4 The big monkey is rough on Yoshi, but Yoshi is generally very strong against weighty characters. The trick is to rely on your juggles while avoiding his; cargo uthrow uair is a huge one to try to escape by either sex kicking out or smash DIing in the opposite direction of your momentum. His backair is crouchable, as are many of his moves, up through medium percents, and fsmash is great for spacing. For edgeguarding, just hop on the edge before he gets there, or try to use eggs to pop him up and mess him up. A winnable matchup for sure.

Almost as annoying as fighting the Marios, but thankfully he's very comboable. Just think about that one time you dropped your ice cream cone or that one kid who traded you a Missingno. and got all your Pokémon Red and Blue data erased. Think of whatever makes you really angry and take it out on DK. I'd actually venture to say that this match is a lot like Kirby in the ways they'll try to fight you.

Roy: 4-6 Mini-Marth, Roy players are generally quick and have good mindgames, will try to do cheesy throw combos in to fsmash which don't work because the Yoshi knows to DI down. If you know the matchup really well, you should be able to 2-stock Roy no problem. Yoshi has priority over him at every turn, and can combo Roy reasonably, and edgegaurd him easily with edgehogs. Downsmash kills Roy at good percents.

For truth.

You have NEO and I've yet to play him, but aside from Mow, I've never met a Roy I've had to take seriously. This match should be really easy, even for novice Yoshis. Just do like this bright young man says and don't fall for the dumb dumb grab "combos."

Young Link: 5-5 Fast and agile, Young Link dies to the downsmash at ridiculous percents, and he will have to beat on you for awhile to get the kill. Still, don't underestimate him, and stay unpredictable, and like his older self, punish that boomerang lag.

A low tier more than worthy of Yoshi's attention. Crouching works well here, just don't crouch too much because that damage adds up fast, leading to what I call "flopping techs," where you attempt to CC, but the damage breaks the CC and you flail on the ground for a little bit. Young Link excels in missed and flopping techs, so try not to put yourself in this situation too much.

Pikachu: 7:3 A very good pika is almost impossible to handle with Yoshi. You really have to focus on landing downtilts and downsmashes, and you need to keep Pika from grabbing you. Speed, spacing, and your sex kick are going to be absolutely clutch in this matchup. There's not much to say here, just rely on your prediction skills to beat him to the punch; not alot of his moves will beat your forward air.

I think I just have lots of Pikachu experience, and this matchup seems hopeless at times, but it requires lots of patience. I disagree with you on a few points, though. First, I think an average Yoshi can go toe-to-toe with a good Pikachu if the Yoshi knows what to look out for. Neutral air spam and gay up air gayness is easy to get around once you know Pikachu's mechanics. Also, I strongly advise not using downsmash at all, ever, EVER. At least not defensively. Maybe when edgeguarding, maybe. Pikachu is too quick and his grabs and smashes are too gay to let him get a hit in.

Please please please. If nothing, listen to me on this point.
Down throw to forward air. It makes Pikachu cry in the darkest corner ever cried in. EVER.

Yoshi: Lol Yoshi is so bad against Yoshi. Always an entertaining fight.

Agreed.

Zelda: Gay. At low percents, DJ through that foot, up air and DON'T LET UP--as hard as you can, try not to let her get anywhere near the ground or to your side. Zelda's best moves in this matchup are her feet and her tilts and nobody's smart enough to use her tilts, so that's half your job done for you right there.

Game and Watch: Wow. Is he even a character? Forward air spam, down tilt spam, maybe some grabs...that's what any Yoshi can expect from Game and Watch. OH MAN GRAB TO DOWN THROW TO ______. I'm pretty sure it's a crime in five countries what Yoshi's grabs do to Game and Watch. Lightshield to escape the gayness if he's pressuring you (LOL @ that notion, but it happens sometimes).

Ness: Ness is gay. He grabs. And he has better DJC combos than you in this match. So there are two ways out here. First is to find out the player's style. If they're super aggressive, you get super aggressive, too. DJC neutral airs, close proximity dash dancing, no grabbing, lots of WD back airs, NO DOWNSMASHES. If they're defensive, then it's a lot harder. Run away, toss eggs, and be gay. Forward tilt is your friend. Whatever you do, don't get hit by PK Thunder edgeguards.

Bowser: 2-8 Yoshi owns Bowser. Just beat on him until he dies. Instant edgehog if he even thinks about grabbing the edge. Bowser is a just a Yoshi on roids, show him that staying in school is what counts. OPTIONAL: You can beat bowser with just your toungue if you desire. Grab combos work great.

It's like watching Comedy Central, except I laugh everytime I press a button on my controller. I have madd respect for Bowser players, but not when they choose to commit suicide against Yoshi in such a terrible matchup. I used to think this was slightly even, but as time's been passing, I've been changing my mind a lot.

Kirby: 4-6 A tough matchup, but it just takes a little practice. Treat Kirby like a sumo wrestler. He's going to try and grab you and do stupid stuff. Just keep a little distance between you, crouch all his aerials, and land KOs where you need to. He doesn't have combos or an effecient way to kill you because your double jump is too good.

Okay, oddly enough, Kirby, Mewtwo, and Pichu I think are Yoshi's hardest matchups not in low tier, but in a low tier tourney. I say this because on paper, the matches are more or less in his favor, but in a low tier tourney, you're not very likely to find scrub Pichus, Kirbies, etc. All the scrubs are the Ness, Link, and Luigi players. Maybe some Zeldas, DK is popular too.

Right, onto the matchup. It is tough. Lots of grabs, like Techno has noted. I recommend a very grounded game for the most part. Edgeguard with all your tilts--it saves time and energy. Watch out for reverse aerial hammer to up tilt, it's actually a pretty good strat.

Pichu: I don't have too much to say here. A good Pichu is just that, a good Pichu. Priority and speed, but no real reach. You just have to overpower him, basically. Your staying power crushes this lil guy's competitive spirit.

MewTwo: Okay, Mewtwo can be tough, too. More grabs. Notice how the bad matchups all involve lots of grabs? The best part is that these guys are so tough to grab, it's honestly not worth the effort, so don't. Shadowball spam is gay, so jab them. Try fighting him like you would Dr. Mario: His tilts are bad for you, and if he grabs you, you're likely to get KO'd or take a hefty amount of damage. Neutral airs, reverse them plz. Back airs until your tail falls off. Don't downsmash. Don't grab.

This is a good thread.

I hope I'm not coming off as super-pro-Yoshi, but Yoshi takes a big stinky poopy in low tiers' cereal. The only problem, as I noted above, is that in low tier tournies, it's a bit harder against the more obscure characters because the people that play them aren't there to fool around, most likely. Again, most Links, Luigis, DKs, Zeldas, etc. are there for easy wins, so watch out for bad and repetitive strats. Don't get annoyed, and always look for the sweet Egg Lay to Taunt combo. ^_^

P.S. - Wow @ your sig, Burntsocks. Good stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree w/ almsot everything Shiri says (i still think kirbys are easy). nice meaty post. And thank you, though i didnt directly make the sig myself, i asked the person to do it. And people always get intimidated by pink yoshi (i also play pink samus and luigi). ftw

 

[technomancer]

What Shiri Said

Awesome. I'll update the first post with most of this if you don't mind.

Luigi's not heavy dude...he also has crap for recovery...he just hits hard.

Luigi is pretty heavy due to his iron hands and steel toed boots. Upsmash kills him (uncharged) at like 109% or something, as opposed to lighter floaties like Peach and Jiggly, which are closer to 100% and 90% respectively, on FD. He's also a hell of a ***** to kill off the side, and Yoshi can't bat him off the stage like some characters as far as edgeguarding goes. I'll add more Luigi stuffs later, I know a thing or two here, but otherwise it's a fairly standard beat 'em up and spot for kills.

As far as Roy goes, I've never had the pleasure of playing Neo with my Yoshi, though I'm sure I'd get ***** based on what he did to my Falcon and spacies the few times that I've had the pleasure. There are plenty of good Roy's around here that pretty much just stole Neo's style that I've had some practice against though.

 

[Deleted member]

For Luigi, he has an odd recovery (i wouldnt say bad nessecerily), and he can go either completely horizontal or completely vertical. so what i like to do if uve hit him far but not killed him, is to fair him when he is diagonal from the ledge (meaning his up b wont get him to the ledge yet). This way, he will be too low to have time for both a side b and an up b so he dies.

 

[The |Egg| Sniper]

Whoa whoa whoa, time out. What is this "Game and Watch isn't even a character" stuff? Sure, you can do well against ground approaches, but aerially G&W has Yoshi beat. From Keydashing to that parachute, Yoshi's got a few things to worry about. Not to mention he can ToP (Turtle of Pain) Yoshi rather well since he's fat.

The reason why I bring this up is because I have G&W as a secondary...and I play other Yoshis (Now I do ). If there are smarter G&Ws out there, they'll use the insane disjointed moves to gain an edge on Yoshi.

First off, G&W can tech Yoshi's Dthrow(much like teching Fox/Falco's Dthrow for anyone), since he doesn't bounce.Something to consider.

CCing G&W's air approach can get you punished more, especially against Lcancel Keydash->dtilt or Keydash->grab. Yes, you can lightshield this, but if you don't, watch out! >.<
At low %S G&W can juggle Yoshi with utilt pretty well, with its insane range. Like many other Yoshi matches, keeping your feet firm on the ground most of the time is necessary.

Watch out for that dtilt. It's G&W's bread and butter for ground approaches.

Don't underestimate the stun of the suausage. That tiny frame of stun is enough for him to sneak a fair or spiked dair (stagespike upward).

Just a few things to mention. Don't get me wrong, Yoshi most definitely has the upper hand here, but without knowing about some more advanced G&W techniques, an ignorant Yoshi may meet his match here >.<

Also I'd like to give a few tips vs Ness matchups (thanks to experience with Toasty's Ness =D):

-Believe it or not, Ness can be hit out of his PK Thunder by Yoshi in many ways. It's risky, but at lower %s the edgeguard is worth the trouble. fair, Reverse nairs from above, and sometimes dairs all short out Ness's recovery move.
-Dthrows from him mean punishment either way you DI if he's got the smarts. DI'ing backwards sends Yoshi up for a uair from Ness's noggin, while a DI forward is a setup for a fair flurry (or, from Toasty, fair->grab->whatevuh). Watch the throws.
-Yoshi's face goes through many of Ness's attacks. Fsmash is your buddy here.
-If you're approaching with SHFFL'd fairs, be sure to cancel them. Ness can punish your lag pretty well with his grabs. Though it was suggested NOT to use Dsmashes....this would be the only time I'd recommend using it, as a trap for them.
-DJ out and eat his PK Thunder before he hits himself if you can. It's worth the 7% or so sacrifice to see him plummet to his death

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[rmusgrave]

I have trouble with people dash dance dodging, so I have issues with Roy personally. I know the way I used to play Roy annoyed everyone because I would do 50% tech chase combos with throws alone after doing a dash dance dodge, and I can imagine good Roys doing that to me. Combine that with the reverse up-b edgeguard and Roy has some nasty stuff he can do to Yoshi.

Also, you guys should not underestimate G&W and Bowser, and even Kirby. All 3 characters *will* beat Yoshi if both players don't know how to fight the other person's character. I would also argue in favour of G&W being one of Yoshi's toughest matchups, as his disjointedness and pure power in a lot of his aerials makes CC and evasiveness almost pointless. I would probably argue this case differently if I had the opportunity to face Ken when he was here though, his G&W is awesome.

 

[technomancer]

I definitely want to give props to game and watch because overall, he's a very good character, it just so happens that all of Yoshi's moves seem to molest him >.>. As long as you're not particularly outclassed by the player and can land your hits effectively, I think Yoshi has a serious advantage in his power and weight, and G&W will find it difficult to edgeguard a Yoshi that knows how to mix it up, even though that chute is pretty good. G&W has tricks and solid moves, but whaddaya know so does Yoshi, and overall I think a good Yoshi can outspeed, outspace, and outprioritize most of G&W's offensive game, and his defense is pretty horrible


I'm off to tournament, I'll find a good G-dub to test it out, and I'll try to get some matches vs. Splode's link (he's pretty good... or he might be completely bad, I dunno, he seems to beat people though) too.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, bringer, i agree mostly with your roy stuff, though im pretty good at staying out of chain grabs (though, it does happen to me sometimes). I've never fought any good G&Ws, but i know to watch for CCed dtilt and his parachute. Kirbys, if they are good, know that their only way to win is to drive u insane! They have an anoying taunt, an annoying kamakazie, a good dodge, and some aeriels that can KO u once ur off teh edge. Just counter w/ strong hits and use ur edgeguarding abilities and ull do fine. *i dont have time to write more*

 

[Winnar]

I beg to differ, in NTSC (or is it PAL?) he's the fifth heaviest character in the game.

I cite Bringer/Shiri's pinned topics for that one.

Not enough time to help out with the matchups though. Sorry.

*Dies of stupidity* I thought you said Yoshi wasn't heavy.

*dies again*

 

[Shiri]

I was just reading over some of what I had posted...

...and I'd like to apologize if I made it sound like any other low tier characters were horrible characters. I actually find Pikachu, Game and Watch, and Roy, among others, to be really good, but when I'm talking about them versus Yoshi, my tone changes a bit, so please excuse my language.

Game and Watch is a real character.

Just not when he's fighting Yoshi.

 

[Deleted member]

I was just reading over some of what I had posted...

...and I'd like to apologize if I made it sound like any other low tier characters were horrible characters. I actually find Pikachu, Game and Watch, and Roy, among others, to be really good, but when I'm talking about them versus Yoshi, my tone changes a bit, so please excuse my language.

Game and Watch is a real character.

Just not when he's fighting Yoshi.

Lol, no need, low tier characters do suck (well not really). Well my friend has a mean pichu as secondary (mostly to tick me off), and they are annoying! dont fall for the up b mindgames, (up bing in place or going back and forth and such). Try to interupt with an egg. Also, they can hold down the side b for a while, so remember, be patient, cuz they cont charge forever. If they even try side b on u, just get behind them . AVOID FSMASH AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!! Uggg it is an extremely powerful in terms of knockback, IMO more powerful than any other low tiers' fsmashes! Using up b, and pichus amazing speed, pichu players can become extremely quick. Alright, this makes Pichu sound better than he really is. You can easily outprioritize and outrange all of his attacks, except for his fsmash. He has speed over you, but not power, so make use of your powerful moves (fair, nair, smashes, ect.) Also dont approach from above, as u will often get thundered. The main thing to remember is that, well, people will laugh at u if u lose to pichu, so beat the candy out of this pinata! You can be aggresive, because Pichus defences suck, just dont fall for pichus annoying mind tricks, and avoid the jolts he shoots at u. You'll do fine as long as you think of Pichu as something you hate ( Shiri ) and then whack the living daylights out of it!

 

[The |Egg| Sniper]

Lol, sorry for the sudden defense to G&W, but the Breakfast Bunch doesn't just sit there and watch a Bunch Member take things like that.

And Shiri, I suppose you're right. Yoshi > G&W in many ways. That doesn't stop me from having G&W at my Yoshi's side though =P

 

[Velox]

I totally agree with you Bringer (about Roy), which brings me to this point:

Roy does not get beat by Yoshi... I get RAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPED by this Roy from Texas (Sethlon). I'm convinsed that nobody knows what goes down when you play a good Roy. The perils, struggles, complete desperation to escape the never ending sword swinging (see d-tilts >Bs other gayness)... When you play a good and witness the total gayness that is a camping Roy that stays just far enough away to remain aggressive you might as well just **** yourself (I suggest taunting like mad). He has total control. He's even invulnerable to most baiting mindgames, so the only way to get past the excessive camping is to overshoot the Roy with something to stop his gay dash dance away tactics, or to bait him into missing a grab or something (mindgame him). Roys that don't do any move unless it's for a reason are so nasty to play against. Roy's chasedown game is outrageous as well. I can't think of anthing Yoshi has that is especially good against Roy other than double jumping through Roy's moves. Roy just totally blows me away. It really does make me want to stop playing this game. There is like no weaknesses to a near perfect Roy. Like really, I don't even want to talk about playing against Roy, it's still very painful to me. One thing about Roy is there is no reason for Roy to really approach you, he is really campy by nature. Some people group characters in this game as "fast fallers" and "non-fast fallers". Not me. I group them into "campy characters" and "non-campy characters". Campy styles are really hard to beat especially smart players using really safe movesets and have really good reactionary reflexes.


Also, Pikachu is easier that you think. It's probably even. If you know that match well there is no reason for you to fear Pikachus. About the only thing that I consider "overly nasty" about that match is Pikachu
can tail spike you right out of your double jump (gay). Pikachu I would consider "not a campy character", although thunder ground thing can be gay. Most of the time though your essential strategy that will get you by in this match up is just sitting around and waiting to tilt/smash Pika out of mindless appoaches, unless the player is good.


Just my 2 cents on matches I'm really familiar with.


Nevermind.

 

[Deleted member]

I totally agree with you Bringer (about Roy), which brings me to this point:

Roy does not get beat by Yoshi... I get RAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPED by this Roy from Texas (Sethlon). I'm convinsed that nobody knows what goes down when you play a good Roy. The perils, struggles, complete desperation to escape the never ending sword swinging (see d-tilts >Bs other gayness)... When you play a good and witness the total gayness that is a camping Roy that stays just far enough away to remain aggressive you might as well just **** yourself (I suggest taunting like mad). He has total control. He's even invulnerable to most baiting mindgames, so the only way to get past the excessive camping is to overshoot the Roy with something to stop his gay dash dance away tactics, or to bait him into missing a grab or something (mindgame him). Roys that don't do any move unless it's for a reason are so nasty to play against. Roy's chasedown game is outrageous as well. I can't think of anthing Yoshi has that is especially good against Roy other than double jumping through Roy's moves. Roy just totally blows me away. It really does make me want to stop playing this game. There is like no weaknesses to a near perfect Roy. Like really, I don't even want to talk about playing against Roy, it's still very painful to me. One thing about Roy is there is no reason for Roy to really approach you he is really campy by nature. Some people group characters in this game as "fast fallers" and "non-fast fallers". Not me. I group them into "campy characters" and "non-campy characters". Campy styles are really hard to beat especially smart players using really safe movesets and have really good reactionary reflexes.


Also, Pikachu is easier that you think. It's probably even. If you know that match well there is no reason for you to fear Pikachus. About the only thing that I consider "overly nasty" about that match is Pikachu
can tail spike you right out of your double jump (gay). Pikachu I would consider "not a campy character", although thunder ground thing can be gay. Most of the time though your essential strategy that will get you by in this match up is just sitting around and waiting to tilt/smash Pika out of mindless appoaches, unless the player is good


Just my 2 cents on matches I'm really familiar with .

Ummm, first off, you said how easy pikachus unless they were good. Now, all characters r easy if they are bad. Secondly, u said how impossible ROy players are. Now, there are good Roy players, my friend being one (but not that good), but u didnt list anything u did to stop him. If u tell us what u used that failed, we could tell you what u could use instead. Roy vs. Yoshi is IMO pretty even, if not in Yoshi's favor.. If you want Roy help, u can CC his attacks from the tip (since with roy they arent sweetspotted), and easily defeat him. if you spam CCs, he will just grab you, but using them against Roy is a nessecity. You say how mindgames dont work on Roys... that just is wrong. Its probably the person you're against, as a character cant be immune to mindgamez. Im pretty sure neither can people but w/e. Besides CCing, try egging the roy, to make him come to you. Also, roy's air game sux, so take the battle to the sky. Hope that helps.
Your friendly neighborhood yoshi: burntsocks

 

[The |Egg| Sniper]

Burntsocks has a point about Roy's airgame, but be careful about his ground attacks. CC won't always work for him, especially as he gets closer to you. The sweetspot is nearest to the hilt, not to mention the damage he deals is insane ( like....20% uncharged sweetspot Fsmash >.<). Don't let the damage catch up with your CC or you'll regret it. As said before, aerial is your best bet, but watch out for sweetspot attacks as you near him. Also beware Counter....It hurts.... a lot.

 

[Deleted member]

Burntsocks has a point about Roy's airgame, but be careful about his ground attacks. CC won't always work for him, especially as he gets closer to you. The sweetspot is nearest to the hilt, not to mention the damage he deals is insane ( like....20% uncharged sweetspot Fsmash >.<). Don't let the damage catch up with your CC or you'll regret it. As said before, aerial is your best bet, but watch out for sweetspot attacks as you near him. Also beware Counter....It hurts.... a lot.

Ya i meant CCing non-sweetspotted attacks. Not sure about counter... Oh and good roys usually use their side B (DED), and it deals MAJOR damage if done right, and it can also lead to other attacks. As the Egg Sniper stated, his F smash is arguably the best in the game. Roys recovery is the worst in the game, so once hes off the edge, u have a few options. If he tries to sweetspot, instant edgehog and he dies (though if he knows you and he is farmiliar w/ teh yoshi, he might not sweetspot). If he goes above, u can dtilt, or fsmash, or u can do my most evil edgeguard.... the jump off and egg poop!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Yoshi's Dtilt > Recovering G&W

Gimp that inkblot.

 

[The |Egg| Sniper]

Yoshi's Dtilt > Recovering G&W

Gimp that inkblot.

Very true, but.....

G&W nair > Yoshi's DJ.

Tu che.

 

[rmusgrave]

Roy's recovery is not one of the worst in the game. As long as the Roy DI's then he lives as long as every other character, and has one of the most disjointed and annoying up-b recoveries. Even instant edgehogging Roy can be risky if he manages to hit you with a part of his up-b which can break your double jump (which at higher % happens a lot).

Velox, have you tried simplifying your strategy against campy Roys? His dash dance is all well and good, but if you crouch and defensively prepare for d-tilt he will have trouble grabbing you yeah? If you can defensively use d-tilt to stop grabs 70% of the time, you should be able to approach Roy by walking towards him and crouching and/or d-tilting at the right time. Hopefully this way you can pressure him into a corner where dash dancing won't help. And we all know that if Roy went airborne then you can CC his attacks and punish him.

I remember Mew2king telling me that to beat Roy you stay above his head height, because what's he gonna do? Jump and do a 4% attack on you? This will work on non-campy Roys. Campy roys will just space themselves and then grab you when you land.

And last but not least - Roy is one of the easiest characters to combo in the game. Land combo moves where possible.

 

[technomancer]

Velox, Sethalon is amazing, and I guess I underestimated the goodness of the DED, I can see it wrecking. There's alot of DI to memorize in both swordsman matchups, but a big trick to Roy is NOT TO FIGHT HIM ON FD. Your platform game outclasses his and can set you up for some DjCCs.

As far as Roy's recovery goes, you just have to use your invulnerability well. Use the ledgestand early so he can't sweetspot, and then just make sure to CC if you're going to get hit.

 

[Deleted member]

We should turn this thread into a whole "Yoshi matchups: thread and get it stickied. That way no one needs to make a new topic every time. I need a few Pikachu tips, cuz the thunderflip (u know that cheap gimp kill) always gets me whenever teh pika gets off an up smash. Im occasionally able to DI away, but sometimes the pika, after up smash, jumps to where i am DIing and then thunders. Also, its tough to edgeguard a pika. Pichu is easy but pika... any advice?

 

[Velox]

@ Bringer and Technomancer: I just wanted to let you know that I had read it and that I wasn't ignoring this topic, I just had nothing constructive to say in return Other than I guess, Bringer, I see the uses in simplifying my strategy, I'll try what you said. We're at the level where no one thing will make a difference, seeing every strategy in the game can be countered, so it's no use. I'll just accept for the time being that it's just the players involved, and it doesn't reflect the character match up. No, actually I don't, seriously Roy has an advantage against Yoshi. I'll settle for even though.

I mean you both know what you're talking about and such, so I would like to discuss this with you, if only I had AIM back... I'm going to play nothing but Yoshi at a big Texas tournament coming up too We'll see how it goes... Hopefully I don't play Seth in brackets, that would be gay.

Edit*** Burntsocks, look at some of the several Pikachu topics previous. In perticular, read my posts, seriously, I've given some good tips on that match. Just camp. It's that simple, sit there and wait till the Pikachu SHFFLs at you or something and grab or u-tilt them (u-tilt will just knock them straight out of it). Never approach, however if they start thundershocking or whatever that ground thing is, avoid it, throw eggs, I dunno, just continue to play gay (this includes camping, never approaching unless you're overshooting a camping Pikachu, and waiting for the Pikachu to approach you so you can **** them out of their approach). And no offense, but none of that stuff against Roy will help me. It's not like I haven't tried that before... how long do you think I've been playing this game? (again no offense, I know it sounds like I'm being an a** to you). A lot longer than Feb. 07 I can tell you that... No single thing will help me win the match, he'll immediatly find away around it seeing nothing in this game in non-counterable. This also helps prove my point that there is something wrong with the match... ...

and I don't know if you misread me or if I made it unclear (I'm too lazy to re-read and there was so much complaining I'd get lost in it), but I meant that Pika is easier that what people think in general no matter what skill level the players are at. Probably an even match up, even if the Pikachu is really good, what you can't do against a Pika that is good though is just win by ****** the Pikachu's approaches. It's that specific strategy you cannot use as much against good Pikachus, even though you still get lots of use out of it. Has nothing to do with the match up in general.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Bringer and Technomancer: I just wanted to let you know that I had read it and that I wasn't ignoring this topic, I just had nothing constructive to say in return Other than I guess, Bringer, I see the uses in simplifying my strategy, I'll try what you said. We're at the level where no one thing will make a difference, seeing every strategy in the game can be countered, so it's no use. I'll just accept for the time being that it's just the players involved, and it doesn't reflect the character match up. No, actually I don't, seriously Roy has an advantage against Yoshi. I'll settle for even though.

I mean you both know what you're talking about and such, so I would like to discuss this with you, if only I had AIM back... I'm going to play nothing but Yoshi at a big Texas tournament coming up too We'll see how it goes... Hopefully I don't play Seth in brackets, that would be gay.

Edit*** Burntsocks, look at some of the several Pikachu topics previous. In perticular, read my posts, seriously, I've given some good tips on that match. Just camp. It's that simple, sit there and wait till the Pikachu SHFFLs at you or something and grab or u-tilt them (u-tilt will just knock them straight out of it). Never approach, however if they start thundershocking or whatever that ground thing is, avoid it, throw eggs, I dunno, just continue to play gay (this includes camping, never approaching unless you're overshooting a camping Pikachu, and waiting for the Pikachu to approach you so you can **** them out of their approach). And no offense, but none of that stuff against Roy will help me. It's not like I haven't tried that before... how long do you think I've been playing this game? (again no offense, I know it sounds like I'm being an a** to you). A lot longer than Feb. 07 I can tell you that... No single thing will help me win the match, he'll immediatly find away around it seeing nothing in this game in non-counterable. This also helps prove my point that there is something wrong with the match... ...

and I don't know if you misread me or if I made it unclear (I'm too lazy to re-read and there was so much complaining I'd get lost in it), but I meant that Pika is easier that what people think in general no matter what skill level the players are at. Probably an even match up, even if the Pikachu is really good, what you can't do against a Pika that is good though is just win by ****** the Pikachu's approaches. It's that specific strategy you cannot use as much against good Pikachus, even though you still get lots of use out of it. Has nothing to do with the match up in general.

Thanks for the pika help. Anyways, I wasnt saying u hadnt been playing long sorry if i made u feel like i was saying that. But anyways, against roy, the main thing u have over him is your aeriel game, so you gotta take the battle to the sky, cuz roys air game plus the fact that hez easy to combo, makes your aeriel game extremely potent. And though my friend does main roy, he doesnt sound nearly as evil as Sethlon (ive heard the name). So take my advice with a packet of salt (hehe a joke). i like jumping over roys and staying out of range of their utilt and fsmash. If they try it and miss, u can use the opportunity to get them airbourne. BTW does Sethlon use DED (hate that move so much!)? Cuz if he doesnt then that makes things a bit easier (not sure if campy roys have any use for it though).

 

[technomancer]

See if you can't get a vid vs. Sethlon. I guess the best thing to do might be to just anticipate his reaction to your strategy and try to get the jump on him, for supermindgames.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Darn you Velox. I was wondering why it seemed he knew the yoshi matchup so well at FC. We played several matches and he would constantly 1 or 2 stock me, and you're right, you hardly ever feel like you're in control. I used to think grabs are the only thing roy had to finish, but I've gotten better at DIing them. Sethlon's over B crap and incredible spacing with d-tilts and f-airs made things extremely tough. You have to really work to start your combos. Next time I play sethlon or 5150 I'm a try that staying in the air strategy bringer was talking about.

 

[Velox]

Oh, heh, you're that Yoshi that Alex was talking about then. I asked him if there were any good Yoshis at FC and he said something like, "well, there was this one good Yoshi..." I already knew you were good though.

Anyways, I don't play that match with him though, but like once in a blue moon, we've only done it a few times, I don't like to put myself through it, it's like a boycott. I'll probably never do it again in fact, our Roy dittos are criminal.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Roy gets dtilt gimped like no other...

 

[technomancer]

I disagree, it's hard to dtilt gimp a good Roy, much like it's hard to edgeguard a good Yoshi. A well placed egg is often preferred.

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree, it's hard to dtilt gimp a good Roy, much like it's hard to edgeguard a good Yoshi. A well placed egg is often preferred.

Haha, hard to edge guard a good yoshi... your funny... In all seriousness though, Yoshi is hard to edgeguard i guess, but he cant sweetspot and if u get predictable, then u are very easy to be gimped. Hard to hit, but if ur hit ur dead.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

I got a few d-tilt gimps. There is no way you can rely on that in this matchup, well any matchup really.

 

[Deleted member]

I got a few d-tilt gimps. There is no way you can rely on that in this matchup, well any matchup really.

I Only use them if i trick the roy by edgehogging, then i get up, and since he now has to go over, and not sweetspot, he is easily gimped. But usually, i just dtilt if they mess up.

Alright, heres some advice on bowser. U may think he is a fat lump (which he is), but this lump has a few tricks up his sleeve, some tricks that could spell death for the ignorant yoshi. Firstly, he has his shhfled aeriels. They aren't very laggy when they are l cancelled, and they do lots of damage and have high knockback. Next is his shieldgame. Very dangerous, with his good grabs, and an up b out of shield. which leads me to my next point: the fortress. One of the best moves in the game, in the air it can deal 30+ damage, an on ground it comes out in 4 frames and has invincibility frames in the beggining. It can also be used for mindgames on land. His tilts are all very good, and his ftilt and utilt can get KOs pretty easy. Bowesers edgeguarding skillz are also pretty good.
Now Yoshi has a good advantage. He has eggs, which are extremely useful in this matchup, and he can create insane combos on the lump. Bowsers so big, so he can be combod very easily. Uair and egg juggles are magnificent! Both vertical and horizontal kills work here. He is very easy to edgeguard, just fair him and he is out. If he gets close to u and tries to ftilt, light shield, to get away from him, and spam eggs. Egg spamming is potent against this slow lump, but some of his attacks go through eggs. Also, use eggs to limit his aeriel options. Hope this helps (not that u are likely to ever fight a boozer)

 

[technomancer]

Updates:
PC Chris's Game-n-Watch 3 stocked me twice in a MM, and shortly thereafter Chu's Yoshi beat me in tournament (eww at Chu Datz first round) and then right afterward in a MM. I wanted to get in one vs. Azen's bowser but I ended up leaving early, lol @ Azen's bowser beating Kiwi's sheik so many times.

Game-n-Watch is definately no picnick for Yoshi. Try to avoid going off the side at all really, G-dub ***** Yoshi off the side. SH Parachute to Fsmash covers alot of options. On the stage, priority wise, G+W has the edge on everything, so you really want to avoid getting hit, and be fast. Also Game and Watch has alot of duration on his moves, making them hard to go around and punish, best bet is to get a bit higher than him and come down with a dj on his head. I'll edit my original post with revised opinions and in the meantime work on not sucking, because I definately sucked it up all day, my Falco got 3-stocked by splode's ganon in losers bracket WTF.

 

[Deleted member]

Updates:
PC Chris's Game-n-Watch 3 stocked me twice in a MM, and shortly thereafter Chu's Yoshi beat me in tournament (eww at Chu Datz first round) and then right afterward in a MM. I wanted to get in one vs. Azen's bowser but I ended up leaving early, lol @ Azen's bowser beating Kiwi's sheik so many times.

Game-n-Watch is definately no picnick for Yoshi. Try to avoid going off the side at all really, G-dub ***** Yoshi off the side. SH Parachute to Fsmash covers alot of options. On the stage, priority wise, G+W has the edge on everything, so you really want to avoid getting hit, and be fast. Also Game and Watch has alot of duration on his moves, making them hard to go around and punish, best bet is to get a bit higher than him and come down with a dj on his head. I'll edit my original post with revised opinions and in the meantime work on not sucking, because I definately sucked it up all day, my Falco got 3-stocked by splode's ganon in losers bracket WTF.

I think GnW vs Yoshi is fairly even, thinking about it. You have speed over him so use it. His parachute is big trouble, but he is vulnerable to attacks from under. Do u guys know how to counter the key, it really ticks me off. I dont have much GnW experience. Btw this thread is awesome. Ive learned so much!

 

[Shiri]

Yeah, no counter for the key, LOL. Sorry, forgot to mention that in my rant.

D1 and I were talking about Mr. Game and Watch and I've had a conversation or two with Dire after playing him about the matchup as well. Key and down tilt will be the bigger hurdles in this match. At least I think so.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, no counter for the key, LOL. Sorry, forgot to mention that in my rant.

D1 and I were talking about Mr. Game and Watch and I've had a conversation or two with Dire after playing him about the matchup as well. Key and down tilt will be the bigger hurdles in this match. At least I think so.

K just wondering, cuz the key seems pretty tough to beat. Dtilt... man i hate that! It is the perfect set up move. But anyways, ive found thta mewtwos can be sorta tough (i met someone who played a good one). I beat him, but it was harder than i thought, mostly cus of grabs and mewtwos insane recovery. Any edgeguarding tips on him (if any), and what are good ways to keep out of his grabs.