Low percents

[Citizen Snips]

So I've been getting into Luigi something fierce. I love mindgames and I love baiting, and I love spaghetti, so it seemed reasonable to move to Luigi. However, I've noticed that he gets punished for everything when he attacked at low percents. Upsmash? CC'd. D-smash? **** you, Snips, I'm at 5, I ain't going nowhere. Grab? Alright, fine, but there's other stuff, too, isn't there?

So what do I do at low percents? Aerials don't seem to work, and neither do smashes.

Note: All of this is against Fox. What an ***.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Who is playing fox in Rochester?

 

[-ACE-]

Grabs are key like you said. From 0% uthrow to dsmash is a good opener and forces a tech. Once fox has like 5% usmash (as an approach) forces a tech also. From either of these you can techchase with wd grab or aerial. If you aerial fox's shield, try to land behind him and l-cancel to utilt. When doing double aerial shield pressure, try to space yourself out of grab range. Uair is actually pretty good as the second aerial as it pushes you father away from grab range (if you land very close to your opponent). Punish missed grabs with dsmash or utilt, and ftilt if you can knock them offstage. Sidestep dodge to utilt isn't bad as a mixup either. Also if you space a dsmash well it's hard to punish at any %

 

[Winston]

So I've been getting into Luigi something fierce. I love mindgames and I love baiting, and I love spaghetti, so it seemed reasonable to move to Luigi. However, I've noticed that he gets punished for everything when he attacked at low percents. Upsmash? CC'd. D-smash? **** you, Snips, I'm at 5, I ain't going nowhere. Grab? Alright, fine, but there's other stuff, too, isn't there?

So what do I do at low percents? Aerials don't seem to work, and neither do smashes.

Note: All of this is against Fox. What an ***.

This is a big reason why fighting fox is ********.

You pretty much have:

-jab -> grab (doesn't actually combo of course but sadly Luigi has to rely on stuff like this, just don't overuse it and it should work somewhat often.) Vist does this a ton and it works well for him since he's good at pressuring.

-space bairs/fairs to get them to the percent where you start getting frame advantage from hitting them with ground moves. I end up doing this a lot, combining it with weird wd sh movements, autocancels, wavelanding off platforms, and other such nonsense. If you can hit with a late bair you can try to combo it into turn around dsmash/grab.

Why do you say aerials don't work?

 

[Citizen Snips]

Why do you say aerials don't work?

Fox doesn't get knocked down by them, and I get punished for pretty much every aerial I do early in the stock, since he gets back to me before I land.

Also, Matt, Jaiye is trying to play him.

 

[Vist]

Yea just like... Grab or space your aerials better. Normally u should go for aerials right as you're about to land otherwise you'll get punished for floating in the air even for a moment

 

[Eddy 007]

You can also use a well spaced f-tilt. Just be patience.

 

[Wenbobular]

At like 0 I think Fox might have frame advantage on Ftilt even if he doesn't CC <_<

 

[Blea Gelo]

srry for double comment

 

[Blea Gelo]

At like 0 I think Fox might have frame advantage on Ftilt even if he doesn't CC <_<

yes

using well spaced bair is a good strategy at low percent, is quick, wont knock back, but it has a good range, so u'll be good, but space it well.
you can brake hes shffls with an usmash, the thing is that u gotta read him. u can also space fairs, but it's harder to space fairs than bairs, and u'll get more easily punish cause of fair recovery being slower than bairs.

 

[Winston]

Fox doesn't get knocked down by them, and I get punished for pretty much every aerial I do early in the stock, since he gets back to me before I land.

Right, the thing is you don't have to the aerials early. Experiment with timing your aerials later, etc.

 

[Wenbobular]

Early Luigi aerials are basically the easiest aerials to punish haha
But you shouldn't reeeeally be jumping around much anyways vs Fox ...

 

[StretchNutz]

run away and throw fireballs. they'll never expect it. space a misfire or two and you're golden. also: down-b

 

[Winston]

Early Luigi aerials are basically the easiest aerials to punish haha
But you shouldn't reeeeally be jumping around much anyways vs Fox ...

eh, im not sure about this... if you don't aerial early you're kind of relying solely on jab -> grab or dash/wd back -> grab their approach.

After you "unlock" your ground moves by building some damage on him then it's probably better to stay grounded and just try to read him, though.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Yeeeah, I've been playing a ton of Falcon, and I realized after reading some of the comments that I've been treating Luigi's aerials like Falcon.

SH"FF"Ling early fairs/nairs has been getting me *****. I'll test out of some of the later stuff. Thanks guys!

 

[StretchNutz]

A well-placed fireball and quick retreating down-b will do more damage than an aerial and are harder to punish. And suddenly you can combo dsmash/utilt/usmash

 

[Blea Gelo]

the fireball will work out in certain situations, but just in very few. the would use the down b only when they are coming from the air, and you can get them depending on what aerial they are doing, but doing down-b with fox in the ground it's a free grab/usmash, i also would rather hitting an usmash. when u hit a fox with the down b at such a low percent, they can tech and kick ur ***, so ill rather the usmash and techchase. remember that luigi won't recovery after the down b even if you hit fox the second time in a such low percent.
sticking in the ground or jumping depends so much.. there;s nothing secure in neither of both, but ill rather landing a bair first, that's what im looking to land first, if i get a chance to grab then perfect.

 

[Wenbobular]

There is no such thing as a well placed fireball vs Fox in neutral position ...

 

[StretchNutz]

cyclone on the ground is faster than fox, hence no free usmash or anything if you retreat properly. maybe a couple free lasers. But I thought the whole point was to accumulate enough damage that your ground moves become effective... sounds like something best done from afar if possible.

 

[Wenbobular]

Fox is not only incredibly fast, down-b is also incredibly laggy...
The second he sees you retreat with his down-b he can wavedash out of shield and chase you ... you're not going to outrun him with down-b if he reacts properly

 

[Blea Gelo]

wenbo i never said antyhing about fox's neutral position. if we are talking about fox onto the stage, the best way to fireball fox is when he is coming down from the air, but i never said that was a good idea, neither better than dbing or usmashing.

 

[Wenbobular]

O I see
Must have misread something there
Fireballs are still pretty bad though
Winston facepalms every time he sees Vist fireball / random tornado because it's usually a bad idea haha

 

[Citizen Snips]

O I see
Must have misread something there
Fireballs are still pretty bad though
Winston facepalms every time he sees Vist fireball / random tornado because it's usually a bad idea haha

But Vist makes up for it by being able to control ceilings and misfires.

That is why he is ma favorite Ouija.

 

[StretchNutz]

I fireball with the precision of a firey kidney transplant surgeon.