Losing Your Friends Due to Your Progress. How do you deal with it?

[JAZZ_]

Hey guys, Jazz here with a bit of sorrow in my heart. My cousin, who is super close, no longer wants to play smash with me. He was my smash buddy but ever since I started getting into the meta, he is disinterested and rather disgusted in me. I guess in the months of progress I give off a competitive attitude thats causing me to lose the joy of smashing with my cousin. he doesnt own the game so I guess I progressed to much, but I dont know how to get him to want to play with me. Frankly very few want to play with me in my social circle. And Sure I could reach out to the smash community and get partners. which I have, but its not as fun as it was playing with my cousin.

Have you guys experienced this? how do you control your competitive spark? and Does going meta kill your view of casual smashing for good?

Please no negative, offensive replies. dont target my cousin or anyone that is in his shoes, address the issue with our attitude. Its perhaps something to do with us? If you could keep it on that line of thinking maybe we can find a way to get our smash buds back.

 

[Buffoon]

It's difficult to suggest a solution with your cousin when we don't know his issue with playing with you. I'd suggest sitting down with your buddies and your cousin and talk this out; that's the best solution I can muster with this information.

 

[Browny]

I had some people like this and to keep people playing I'd just play with items, FFA, not try hard etc.

You will still definitely improve at the game no matter what ruleset or characters you use, you dont have to play 1vs1 neutral stages no items 1 character every time.

If you are being all 1vs1 no items etc, then give that a break when playing vs casual friends.

 

[κomıc]

Like @ Buffoon suggested, have a talk.

 

[KirbCider]

I've been there. Believe me, I have...

To start, I met my friend sometime in Middle School. At one point I found out he played Melee and I actually went against him. I can tell you this right now, he roasted me each and every time. I could never beat him no matter how hard I had tried. Then I started to make progress. In Melee we were finally starting to become evenly matched. When Brawl came out (was in High-school at that point) I started to become better than him. It seemed as if the roles were starting to get reversed the better I got with Smash.

At one point he claimed he didn't want to play Smash anymore cause he grew tired of it, which I found a little strange to be honest. He refused to want to play with me even though I told him we could do adventure mode or something else together in Smash. This lasted a few months until he finally decided to start playing with me again. Maybe he really was burnt out on Smash, maybe not...

It was also at that time where I became friends with one of his friends that also played Smash. Needless to say whenever the two were together, even if it wasn't a team match they absolutely without a doubt had to team up against me. There was no stopping them from doing it. They'd always tag team me to make sure I was the first one out even if I decided to play a character I wasn't good at. That really peeved me a lot and they knew it, but they had told me "We have to cause we can't beat you on our own...!"

And now we're here at Sm4sh U. At this point I can just about 2 Stock him in a stock match if I tried hard enough. I really want to help him get better. I want him to play with me more so he can get better. If not with me, at least 1V1 For Glory so he can gain some sort of experience, yet he refuses to. If I ever try to play offline with him he says "Pft yeah right! You just want someone to wail on! Why not just go right into an Online match?" I honestly don't know what to say. I feel as if he gives me too much credit.

Problem is he just refuses to listen to my advice. He never shields nor grabs, and I constantly try to remind him to do so. He just doesn't care or want to listen. I can't change his play style nor force him to. He does pretty well without doing that, but I just know that if he actually started shielding and grabbing he can become that much of a tougher opponent.

He's got the ability to become way better yet simply refuses to do so. It's a shame really...

So I definitely understand what it's like to have someone refuse to play against you even though you've practically been playing Smash with them for years. There's not much we can do about it unless they decide to let us help them, or until they themselves decide they want to get better. Some people are just stubborn and there's some who find no fun in losing all the time.

 

[_gold_]

I play the game all the time. I watch videos, and study up on techniques. My friends just enjoy the game because they think it's fun. They don't really mind me beating them often, but to be honest, I myself kind of get tired of winning.

Try something like a mid-size stage and turn items on med-high. This will bring some randomness or luck to the match that will offer everyone a chance of winning.

 

[kendikong]

Is it because your skill gap between you two has been getting too large? I know how that feels

Try to 2v2 online instead. That way youll have fun winning on the same team

 

[Wintropy]

Tell them you can play the way they want to play. Establish a comfort zone for them and help them slowly work up their confidence in that context, until your friends are ready to play with you routinely again.

I think you just need to play on equal footing with them. If your friends feel you're objectively better in 1v1, items off, then a mode with more random variables and wanton silliness may help restore their confidence in their competitive efficacy.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I've had that problem since I was 4. Talking with them is required so you know what the actual problem is. If the problem is "you win too often" then dialing up the difficulty for yourself will help there. Handicaps, using random characters and other things that are against your comfort zone is a good way for them to feel like they have a real chance to win and you get exposure to things that you normally wont that can work up your smash skills. You both win this way.

In either way, remember to have fun. Laugh at your mistakes, don't be afraid to take chances you normally wouldn't in a competitive match, lead by example to make it fun. People have no problem losing if they had a bunch of fun while it happens.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It would help to know why he stopped playing with you.

 

[Buffoon]

I play the game all the time. I watch videos, and study up on techniques. My friends just enjoy the game because they think it's fun. They don't really mind me beating them often, but to be honest, I myself kind of get tired of winning.

I can relate, no one around my immediate area offers much of a challenge in Sm4sh. Winning gets kinda boring after a while.

 

[LancerStaff]

Helping them improve is a big one, but that requires actually being able to play with them.

Just gotta get your foot in the door and show 'em some tech/combos/whatever.

 

[Enemy Birds]

I can understand getting too good at the game for your friends to put up much of a challenge. It sucks to try to just generally "hold back," since it's hard to strike a balance between giving your friends a decent shot and actually playing the game. If you haven't already, you can try things like using the handicap option, and playing your least favorite characters next time your cousin plays with you. It may also help to set specific rules that you have to follow throughout the match. For example, if your cousin keeps getting frustrated at you shielding all his attacks, then try playing without using the shield button.

That said, these are all just hypotheses; I haven't had much chance to test these ideas for myself. Heh. But hopefully they'll be useful. Also, like GhostUrsa said, it's not Smash Bros. with friends if you can't laugh while you play. Playing with items on the less predictable stages is bound to create a couple of funny moments that would relieve the tension of things.

 

[1FC0]

YOU MUST CONTROL THE POWER THAT LIES WITHIN YOU OR IT WILL DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT YOU LOVE

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY

 

[Babycowland]

I've sort of been in both of these positions before.

Compared to most people here, I'm a casual Smash player. I often get rocked when I play online against random people (and I haven't even tried regular For Glory). That's part of the reason why I don't really play Smash with people from Smashboards anymore. It's probably true that I've gotten a bit better over time and that if I worked on it a lot, I might improve a bit more. But being competitive isn't really a big priority for me, so I don't find the frustration to really be worth it.

I also know some people who don't have as much experience with Smash as I do. Since it doesn't seem like playing against them would be much fun given that difference in experience, we've mostly played teams against coms instead. And honestly, I've enjoyed that a lot. I think it might be worth giving it a try.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

I mean if you go balls to the wall and destroy him, of course they wouldnt want to play

 

[JAZZ_]

heres the thing, hes not bad at all. in 5 matches he will win 2 of them. he knows how to read me and always gets the hard punish. hes kind of a gaming progeny, he doesnt need to touch a game long to get good at it. I gotta work really hard to beat him.
i guess its my competive spirit, for years ive managed to control it but i guess im slipping. and playing a low tier character with a chip on my shoulder and something to prove doesnt help much. i think i gotta find my calm center again, or play a high tier so the 'something to prove' bit is off my back. idk, internally i think that may be a factor

 

[NGUY (guitarstage)]

You should get another person if its like someone from tourneys better

 

[Mysteltainn]

I've run into this issue a few times already. For me personally, I've found that just turning items on and doing a good old FFA with multiple friends did the trick. Of course, there are a few friends in other groups who like to play tourney style as well while sitting and chatting with the others when it isn't their turn, but for the other groups, turning items on and having more mayhem made the game fun for everyone. You could also try using characters that you don't use often to even out this playing field even more if your friends aren't the best yet.

However, this for whatever reason may not go so smoothly for you, so if that's the case, sit down and have a chat with your buddies and cousin to try and establish common ground either in the game or through another fun activity to maintain positive relations.

 

[Roukiske]

Not everyone wants to be a competitive smash player. Some just want to play. If your friends aren't interested in high level play or just want to play for fun then let them. Even in casual games there's handicap (is it in Sm4sh I haven't checked?) as well, so why not just use that. Playing with a handicap shouldn't mess up your competitive play unless you have a hard time re-adjusting. Even then, you can still learn to get better by trying to pick up their habits (a valuable skill you don't just get overnight). Everything CAN be a learning experience.

If you're friends want to get good, then help them out and try not to be a jerk about it. If they still complain, then they are not ready for competitive gaming.

This is why we have the internet and online play is great if you have a decent connection. Some die-hards might say there's lag, well duh. I assure you though, when I wipe the floor with people it isn't because there is lag, and that is what holds people back and keeps some in denial.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Generally when i game with friends we have a couple of guidelines.

1. Near open book policy: When someone asks a question, answer it honestly. If you are continually getting someone with the same tactic/combo let them know what to look for.

Exception: If a player just learned something, they can keep it to themselves until they know they can make it works against unsuspecting opponents.

By doing this, everyone get's better. Even as I kid I remember the whole "I am not going tot ell you because I want to keep winning" attitude of many gamer... and now wanting to play with them for very long.

2. Balance the tactical smash and the chaos smash: This is one that not everyone will like... and if your only goal is to get tournament ready/better then I get why you wouldn't do this.

For my friends and I, we tend to do one game without items and one game with them. The randomness of a pokeball, assist trophy, or sudden kill from a bob-omb etc adds an element of fun for many... though it does take away from the pure test of skill. IMO mixing those 2

3. Handicap yourself:

The easiest way to do this is with character switches. If you are constantly winning with your main, go to a secondary, then a 3rd, then a 4th, then a well i sorta know this guy, to a well i was thinking about labbing this one.

I can see why people wouldn't like these... but if the main idea is to make things fun for (an) inferior player then this does help.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sandbox Syndrome is pretty common among competitive gamers. Before online gaming, you were royally SOL if all your friends lost interest and didn't have the means to travel. Nowadays it's an easier fix but I understand where you're coming from. The main solution is that you're probably going to have to play different games with your cousin. If your cousin no longer likes playing Smash with you, it's better to save Smash for other people. Like I said, it's much easier to find people who like the game at your level online if you don't have any fellow tournament goers in your area or can't reasonably go to them. As long as you don't force Smash on your cousin, things will likely mend with time.

 

[windlessusher]

Just in general, I don't think it's a good idea to coax someone to do something they're not really into, he could genuinely no longer be into Smash.

But in a situation where they still want to play the game, just don't want to put up with you winning all the time? Typically, just changing the rules, or not using my main works things out amongst my friends.
Smash has many options, if you both like the game, then I'm sure you can spark a compromise between yourselves.

Talk it out.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Well for one, don't play as your main. Pick up someone you are HORRIBLE with when playing with the more causal audience. This helps you (a) learn a new character, and (b) play on a lower level (closer to your friends) and have much less knowledge of the character. Another thing to do is turn items on, and play on the more absurd stages. And of course, be okay with losing. Remember, your win rate won't be affected, and it may keep your friends around for another game or two.

I understand the pain, I do. You just have to turn off the part of your mind that forces you to go all out. Forget about the neutral, forget about dash dances, perfect pivots, B reversals and all that. Hell, try playing without using your shield, without rolling or spot-dodging. And don't grab either. Fight your instinct.

 

[Wumpy007]

I have a similar experience, but its a little different, I've always held back n had fun playingplaying melee w my friends but then we started playing this one kid who would edge camp n shield grab w Mario and claimed to be the best. He was good but it only resparked my interest in the game and it started getting very competitive. I started winning, and smash 4 came out n we all got it releasing night and I haven't been able to get anyone to battle me online YET, I feel things got too competitive but it wasn't me who pushed it lol they released the beast

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Well... I used to play this game with a few of my best friends. As time went on, I stuck with the game more than they did and therefore, got a lot better. Playing them 1 on 1 is no longer the same so we usually play it less. I don't make a fuss over it... when we play, we do it for fun, using items, random characters, random stages, etc. It's a game, they're my friends, and as long as it's fun for us to play, we'll play. I also don't play 100% against them. I have my Smash friends to play the game with otherwise. Losing true friendship over Smash is absurd.

 

[jmjb]

don't handicap yourself, don't sit down and intervention him, or anything to make the point worse.. just play more casually, and fun. turn items on, go to all sorts of big fun stages, play with new characters and expand your roster, I have this problem with many of my friends as well. another GREAT thing is play TOGETHER! go clear all event matches on 2 player, try to clear classic mode 9.0 together, go online and play doubles, each with a separate role. don't both be little Mac to point out how many more kills you have, you be little Mac they be villager, or whatever mix works for you. be on the same side as different roles, nobody will feel patronized, or handicapped, you'll both have a lot of fun, and even you yourself will forget about the gap in your experience. also complement them when they do well, AND MEAN IT.

 

[Raijinken]

When my friends don't want to play tryhard mode, that's fine with me, because I enjoy casual silly item play, too (as long as it's not on Palutena's Temple, anywhere else is fine, even 1v1).

But if they just don't like losing all the time, I either offer to team with them (with or without friendly fire), encourage them to keep trying until they improve (they all improve, but few win), or try to help them find other people in our social network of more comparable skill.

Just depends on the person.

 

[Yogurt]

Maybe just play with characters you don't normally use, or items or something. I'm not sure what kind of rules you put onto the matches, but it I can see something like 1 v 1 , no items, and final destination getting tiring real quickly....

 

[SteadyDisciple]

I can definitely sympathize with your position. I live in the middle of nowhere, a part of the US that first got high speed internet a couple years ago. Needless to say, there aren't a ton of people around to play with.

With that said, me and a couple friends spent the better part of a year getting together on most evening and playing Brawl. Two of us got into the competitive edge a bit more, reading up on matchups and combos and such while the others were content to remain very casual. Pretty soon me and this one other guy pulled out ahead of the pack, and it became a situation where no one would play against either of us without the other also playing, in hopes that we would take each other out. We usually obliged, but even with only one stock left whichever of us won would often drop the remaining two for the win.

Now, this situation was fine for me. We both won a lot, and everyone would still play. However, the other more competitive person eventually began to lag behind me slightly as well, and just as I was beginning to notice a power difference when our group split up, all headed to different parts of the state. I still had a number of friends who were interested in playing, but at the release of SSB4 many had never even played before. Heck, if it weren't for the online play I'd rarely if ever have anyone to play with in 4 just because of the experience gap between me and my newer friends. Even when parts of the old gang get together, the capacity for online play and my continued passion for the game now have me leaps and bounds beyond my former sparring partners. So trust me when I say I can sympathize.

The best advice I can really give is a lot of what people have already been saying. Pick modes where things are more random and you have less practice. Play with characters who you don't play often or eve other than in the context of casually with your friend(s), possibly choosing bad matchups intentionally. Online 2v2 is a good way to play with your friend because it puts you on a team, not pitted against one another, meaning they don't have to beat you, just work with you. Also, if you have more people, FFA's can alleviate some of the stress as well, with temporary truces between other players to gang up on you helping level the playing field. Heck, if ganging up on you isn't enough of a gap closer, let them use custom characters while you stick to default, claiming your familiarity with the default moves and non-altered stats makes for easier use on your end.

I still saw one of the funnest things I've ever done on Sm4sh was with three very green and casual players in a local setting. All of them are friends of mine and have seen me play or tried playing 1v1 with me, and acknowledge that they do not have the practice to keep up. Instead, we put all 3 of them on a team with friendly fire off, went to FD, and they all went against my Little Mac. With each of them playing a different Mii fighter I lost, badly, because even with very little practice the brawler and swordfighter could collectively slow my advance while the gunner hurled projectiles in at me, a character without any range or reflector on a stage that I couldn't really avid his shots on. I always killed them more than they killed me, but at 3 stocks apiece I just couldn't keep up enough ground. I lost every time, they had a ton of fun, and I got to play with friends without them getting discouraged at losing so badly for the first time in years. I was the Bowser at the end of their Mario game, the guy with the gamepad in Nintendoland mini games, and it was hilarious.

 

[The Legendary Big Boss]

It is definitely tough to see your friends/family lag behind you skill-wise. It leads to their disinterest and in some cases enmity towards playing with you. In my opinion, I would not press the issue. If your friends do not want to play, then they do not have to. A game is supposed to be a fun distraction not an obligation. I suggest finding others to play with in your area or online. Sometimes people just need a break, but always be receptive if your friends regain interest.

 

[Waveguider]

Tbh my friends think it's cool that i play at a high competitive level lol and when we do play it's with items on and with 3-4 people and i'm not playing to win when we do so it really isn't that bad it's actually a lot of fun