Losing to stupid tactics.

[GanonPawnch]

Okay, this really got to me yesterday. I was fighting this Lucario and all he had to do was get battered until around 80-100%, and then spam aura sphere at me. I know, this sounds easy right? Wrong lol, Lucario's grab is so fast it out right beats any of Ganon's attacks, so I would be thrown off the ledge and then the aura sphere's start again. There wasn't much I could do, I'm not saying there was NOTHING I could do, but all he had to do was shield because Ganon's grab range is so poor to point that there's no point in grabbing, unless you're shield grabbing, but obviously, he wouldn't attack me head on unless he was aura sphereing me.

This probably makes me sound terrible, but I assure you I'm not a terrible Ganon lol xD I honestly think Lucario is one of the hardest to fight as Ganon, as I win most matches I play as Ganon (surprisingly). Also, his Side-B... going for a grab is one thing, but trying to space down tilts as Ganon to try and not get repeatedly grabbed and thrown off is hard because he can just side-b me D: Also shielding, trying to power shield aura spheres online isn't the best as you can imagine. The connection was fine, but not to the point of shielding like you can offline, and so, my shield would almost be broken after two attempts at shielding them.

I tried jumping over them but as you can imagine, Ganon's mobility in the air isn't the best, and can leave you open for more side-b's, or just simply getting grabbed again (seriously, my jab came out, and his grab still beat it). I did win him a few times, but that's not the point, it just annoys me how simple tactics like spamming aura spheres, grabbing, and then waiting about two rolls away from the ledge to hurl more aura spheres at me, can work :/

Anyway, I ended up switching back to Mewtwo and two stocking him, but it annoys me that Ganon's mobility, speed and grab range can be beaten in every way by Lucario. You would have to be there in person to know what I meant in this match lol. By stupid tactics beating me, I mean that if he had tried to run up and combo me, fight me like a normal Lucario, I would have had MORE of a chance at winning than what he did here. And no, I'm not blaming him for spamming either, it worked, didn't it? And that's where my problem stands.

Edit: In other words, Ganon needs a HUGE grab range buff, as shielding against Ganon is basically how you win. Ganon's "Dash grab" is pretty much none existent, so people can pretty much shield grab anything Ganon does. Oh, and Flame choke won't do no good either, unless your opponent is actively chasing you so you can get him off guard, but if he's not, then it's too slow.

 

[MezzoMe]

Online of course you might have trouble with coordination, but you can powershield things fairly easily, once you get in the habit of doing it based on the imput lag, or you could always use a wired connection and make it nearly inexistent unless it's going to crash.
Also, many attacks are safe on shield with Ganon, since

• He is the tallest character in the game, wich makes his limbs and his general hitboxes larger, granting him great range
• He has the highest damage output in the game, and shieldstun is proportional to damage so

So even against Lucario, wich has the highest traction in the game, you can be free at his sheild, with

1. USmash
2. Spaced DTilt
3. Spaced FTilt
4. Spaced Fair
5. Bair
6. Dair (on characters with low traction)
7. UTilt (a minuscle hitbox doesn't completely destroy shields)
8. Spaced FSmash

Additionally, of course the higher the damage is the more the shield will shrink, and, against popular belief, shield regens slower than ever in this game, cutting the options of shielding over half of Ganon's moveset for a good chunk of seconds, consequence the shield break.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I know it's hard to grab people as Ganon, but you do have to go for it sometimes to keep them honest. If they shield, then roll/spotdodge when you get close, punish accordingly. It's something I struggle with myself, but it's something you have to overcome to take your game to the next level. Usmash is also safe on shield, so running up to a shielding foe and Usmashing covers both shield and spotdodge. Just keep working at it.

 

[WwwWario]

I know exactly what you mean. Lucario is possibly my biggest issue as well, as a Ganon main. Or any character with good projectiles. I've had a few matches where I've encountered Lucario's who does nothing else than spamming, rolling, winning, and thinking they're good. I mean, I get so annoyed thinking that playing like that requires so little skill and effort, while we as Ganon players are struggling like mad. I remember doing like you, switching to another character (switched to Mario, reflected all of his Aura Spheres. Felt so good.)

So yes, I agree. Dorf needs some kind of buff. He is deadly powerful and has good moves, but his approach options are just too poor, with his slow running speed and awful grab.

 

[GanonPawnch]

I know exactly what you mean. Lucario is possibly my biggest issue as well, as a Ganon main. Or any character with good projectiles. I've had a few matches where I've encountered Lucario's who does nothing else than spamming, rolling, winning, and thinking they're good. I mean, I get so annoyed thinking that playing like that requires so little skill and effort, while we as Ganon players are struggling like mad. I remember doing like you, switching to another character (switched to Mario, reflected all of his Aura Spheres. Felt so good.)

So yes, I agree. Dorf needs some kind of buff. He is deadly powerful and has good moves, but his approach options are just too poor, with his slow running speed and awful grab.

yeah, the slow run speed PLUS grab is what really hurts him, it limits his options a lot imo.

 

[MagiusNecros]

This is why custom Ganon really helps in this matchup. Since it's FG though I guess it's Power Shield or die.

I always hate Zoners or people that camp with projectiles when playing any character like Bowser or Ganon because it becomes a two front battle of getting there and beating up thing.

With Mewtwo you obviously don't have to put up with that crap.

Part of me feels Ganon's grab despite having HUGE arms is short because his Flame Choke grab range is better and is essentially a dash grab.

 

[Flor@]

yeah, for glory maps are mostly to blame for this issue. all that flat land and no place to duck and cover. I feel your pain. But perhaps it's not so bad on Battlefield, heh. Maybe it's a battle of patience. Just gotta stand in one spot and make sure they don't actually get a hit on you until they mix things up and actually go to you. Basically, for lucario, if they run to the other side to chargr their projectile, run to the other, other side so you can just easily jump over them. Don't play their game!

As for a character like Samus, particularly the better ones, well, play their game just a little. Without approaching you get little on them. This is where powershielding really comes in handy, yes, even with online lag issues. It's what you gotta do. And if you're at your last bit of hp, jump or something, spot dodge a missile, roll through that charge shot. Just be very aware of your spacing. And go watch some of the videos in the Ganon matchup/competitive thread!

 

[GanonPawnch]

yeah, for glory maps are mostly to blame for this issue. all that flat land and no place to duck and cover. I feel your pain. But perhaps it's not so bad on Battlefield, heh. Maybe it's a battle of patience. Just gotta stand in one spot and make sure they don't actually get a hit on you until they mix things up and actually go to you. Basically, for lucario, if they run to the other side to chargr their projectile, run to the other, other side so you can just easily jump over them. Don't play their game!

As for a character like Samus, particularly the better ones, well, play their game just a little. Without approaching you get little on them. This is where powershielding really comes in handy, yes, even with online lag issues. It's what you gotta do. And if you're at your last bit of hp, jump or something, spot dodge a missile, roll through that charge shot. Just be very aware of your spacing. And go watch some of the videos in the Ganon matchup/competitive thread!

I kid you not, I once tried not approaching someone because I ALWAYS have to approach on FG and he literally and I mean literally stood there, looked left and right then taunted. It's saddening. And yes, that was after approaching him throughout the whole match. Also, you can't spot dodge Lucario's fully charged aura sphere when it's powered up. I tried, the last bit of it gets you, it's too big. Rolling might do it, though.

 

[Triggerpig]

I actually have'nt had any problems with lucarios on for glory but then again, i've barely fought any at all.

Know what you mean by losing to stupid tactics though, I mainly seem to have problems with R.O.B's, ness and Luigis(especially luigi, **** him) doing the exact same combo repeatedly and always succeeding. Does'nt help that 99% of my matches always seem to be one of these three (moreso luigi) or if i'm lucky the occasional captain falcons(who always seem to be the most honorable players online i've noticed XD).

i've pretty much given up on for glory for anthers ladder tbh, as said 99% of these matches i'm getting have been these sorta guys and i'm sick of having to block them all.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Ganons custom 2122 set fixes things. His dropkick goes over projectiles for one thing. But then again its for glory so yeah....but anyways For glory isn't that great for practicing really anyways. most of the people on there don't know what they're doing (I fought a Ness who never once used back throw, he just keep doing d throw on me even when I was way into kill percent) But yeah tournament wise Battlefield and 2122 fixes a huge amount of G-mans problems

 

[Triggerpig]

Interestingly enough I've found using battlefield again harder to begin with simply because I was'nt used to the new platforms XD.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Lol BF just helps Dorf a lot. He's big and can maneuver around the platforms pretty well. It also negates projectile spammers.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I know it's hard to grab people as Ganon, but you do have to go for it sometimes to keep them honest. If they shield, then roll/spotdodge when you get close, punish accordingly. It's something I struggle with myself, but it's something you have to overcome to take your game to the next level. Usmash is also safe on shield, so running up to a shielding foe and Usmashing covers both shield and spotdodge. Just keep working at it.

His grab is so pathetic...u might aswell just run and do Left B
But yh...grab is important

 

[MagiusNecros]

If you face an opponent that overcommits to shield just prepare a volcano kick.

Also just flame choke and powershield accordingly.