• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Looking for Formulas used in SmashBoard's Rankings

GreenDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
25
Hey guys! The system that smash uses for tournament rankings is fantastic. As a tournament organizer for another game, I'd like to use a similar system and give it to our coders to work on. They need the formulas use. Anything specific and advanced you guys have, please share. I know it is based off of a tennis system but when I googled for that tennis system, I could not find formulas anywhere.

http://smashboards.com/rankings/

Thanks for taking the time to help!
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
20,342
Location
somewhere near Mt. Ebott
This is the add-on used:
https://xenforo.com/community/resources/8wayrun-com-xentorneo-rankings-pro.785/

It uses this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_Rankings

Size categories used:
Unranked
No entry fee, Doubles, side events or those under 8 players
Pools
For actual pools submission. Not for events that had pools
Local
8-32 Entrants
Large Local
33-50 Entrants
Regional
51-120 Entrants
National
121-200 Entrants
International
200+ Entrants

Simply look at a bracket for each of those sizes to see how points get distributes for each.
 

GreenDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
25
Thank you so much! Quick question: Does it have to be done manually or can it be done via api. I would like our programmer to set it up so that our rankings pulls from an API of thousands of players in each events, so doing it manually would be a pain. I did not find details of this on the link. How much automation can be done?

edit: I also couldn't find any formulas. and it seems that add-on is specific to that forums? I use ipb. And it says this is no longer an available download?
 
Last edited:

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
You can use the ELO ratings system to manage rankings.

For documentation on the system, its formulas, and its uses read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

I also created a website for people to create and manage their own rankings using ELO. You just need to create an account and then you can begin managing your own rankings. I made it this weekend so if there are any comments, questions, or suggestions you may have do not hesitate to let me know. I'll be adding some more features in the near future.

http://elorankings.com
 

GreenDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
25
You can use the ELO ratings system to manage rankings.

For documentation on the system, its formulas, and its uses read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

I also created a website for people to create and manage their own rankings using ELO. You just need to create an account and then you can begin managing your own rankings. I made it this weekend so if there are any comments, questions, or suggestions you may have do not hesitate to let me know. I'll be adding some more features in the near future.

http://elorankings.com
Right but ELO is different. The reason I want smashboard's method is because of what it achieves for me:

This ranking system is based on the Association of Tennis Professionals Entry Ranking System. Players are ranked by the averages of the total scores of their best performances within a time period. This solves many problems with other systems; especially race systems that give preference to players who attend the most tournament events. This system ensures a more accurate calculation on the relative performances of players.

A player's rank is calculated using their best scores within a time period. Stronger players are not penalized for a "bad day", and weaker players are not rewarded for attending the most events. A player's weakest performances will be ignored in the calculations (provided that player attends enough tournaments to exceed the limit). The system will automatically weed out stale rankings and remove players who are no longer active.
 

Jaxel

Behind the Curtain...
Premium
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
310
Location
Edison, NJ
Honestly, I'm not a fan of how the rankings are implemented here on Smashboards. I don't like the "flat" scores for events. A local is ALWAYS worth 25 points; wether it has 8 people in it, or 32. Meanwhile a local with 33 people instantly doubles to 50. There are no calculations being done to handle the size of tournaments.

The system can be set up so that a tournament is worth 1 point per player in the tournament. So a tournament with 8 people is worth 8 points, a tournament with 32 is worth 32 points, etc... Now you may be thinking "doesn't this theoretically produce situations where a large local that randomly gets 80 people in it could be worth more than a major with only 60 people in it? Yes, it can... however, I've also put in safe guards against that.

Firstly, you can set it so that a major is worth 2 points per player instead... so it scales faster. Secondly, you can put in limits for each of the categories. So you can say a local can only be worth 32 points at MAXIMUM; no matter how many people enter. So if 80 people show up for a local, that local will max out at 32. This can actually produce more accurate rankings since if 80 people show up to a local, that doesn't necessarily mean it had stronger competition than a 32 person local; since the majority of those 80 people probably weren't that good in the first place. Meanwhile there are regions that only get 32 person locals, but they are full of killers.

Also, there are specific reasons why the ranking system doesn't use ELO. Most of these reasons, I've spoken about in the past.

The problem with ELO is that it has flaws in tournament design. Its really made for 1 on 1 matches. It is considered a "race" system, it can end up rewarding people simply for attending the most events... and it has a problem where it can severely punish people for simply having a bad day (something very common in fighting games). The Association of Tennis Professionals Entry Ranking system was designed to combat a lot of the inherit issues in ELO.
The tennis ATP system is probably the best "neutral" ranking system; since it bases itself solely on tournament results. It doesn't care who you played against, just how you performed. Player A can be the best player in the world, who only ever loses to one person, his training partner Player B... but Player B has never won a tournament... with ELO, there is a chance Player B could be ranked higher than Player A. Since ELO would consider B beating A, as a "bad beat", and include it in the rankings. Meanwhile, B gets a large windfall because he beat the top ranked player.
ELO also suffers from the issue where it actually promotes top players into NOT attending events. If you are high ranked on the ladder, you may not want to attend anymore events because you put your ranking at risk. This is where you have issues of when a new game comes out and some player abuses the meta; in time people will learn how to beat him, but by then he has earned himself a top ELO rating. Then he drops out from tournaments and simply plays online and trolls the forums. Unless you do a yearly ELO rating reset, he's going keep that rating forever... and a yearly reset would upset the people who still attend events, by throwing their hard-earned work in the trash... for a non-league tournament structure, this is not recommended. In addition, you may have issues where tournament players will selectively choose what events they go to, depending on who else is going to be at that event. Maybe they don't want to play against a specific player and ruin their ranking?

The ATP system is designed to "stale" older rankings. So it promotes people to continue attending events to meet the minimum event requirement. In addition, it automatically rolls retired players out of the rankings. As well, since it doesn't care who is actually in the event, people don't have to be selective about what tournaments they attend. Basically, the issue with ELO is all social problems; not mathematical problems.

The biggest problem with ELO however is the timing mechanisms:

ELO is also sensitive to the ORDER of matches... because each match is representative of itself. Its not just about who you beat, but also when you beat them. Yes, there are algorithms to take care of ELO ranking in single events, but not if events are submitted in the wrong order. For instance, I submitted an event that happened yesterday. The rankings would be handled based on that date and would preclude the adding of new events before that date; since ELO is based on order. In order to add new events previous to the date; you would have to rebuild the entire ranking system after every single tournament that is submitted. The ATP system allows a rolling ranking, without a concern for the order in which events are submitted into the system.
When you have hundreds of tournament organizers running events, you can't really expect them to all be responsible and submit their events in a timely manner. GarPR.com is now doing power rankings using ELO; but this works because its ONE GUY (or one group of people) submitting and managing the entire thing. He doesn't have to wait and hold on the irresponsibility of others.
 
Top Bottom