Lock On Technology! Sonic Match Up Discussion

[Solharath]

Cannot understand how Sonic is advantageous against Fox/Falco. Sure, they're 'Basically dead' if you get them off stage, which is completely and utterly dependent on a large number of factors anyway, but how do you get them off the stage? They short hop laser until you're forced to approach, and then I'm at a loss at what to do - spins can work a good amount of the time, but it's hard to get anything going on them if you downB, and if you sideB I just end up getting CC>Shine. I can't even drag a spacie off the edge 'cause more than half the time they snap the ledge immediately after falling off the edge. Then I'm at the disadvantage and eat Shines.

If your opponent is knowledgeable about Sonic's tools, I see no way he truly has advantages over the spacies. You can take any high ranking, amazing spacie player, and if they haven't figured out the hedgehog they're going to be vulnerable, but with their endless priority and options, I really need help dealing with the animals when they play keep away. Any ideas from the Sonic boards to deal with the powerhouses?

 

[Vino.]

I've been having match up problems with Fox when we are at a neutral stance. Any suggestions?

 

[Vino.]

I've been having match up problems with Fox when we are at a neutral stance. Any suggestions?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

The Spacie Match up is Basically gimping then Similar to the Marth vs Fox or Falco Match up just go for Chain grabs and Ken Combos and M2K stuff I heard M2K say that's how the Marth vs Fox or Falco works

 

[FirexBolt]

Idk id this has been discussed yet, but Shiek MU tips?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN2bB0Aq2nU Last Match should help

 

[FirexBolt]

Thanks.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Grabs are very important to gimping Spacies down throw and up throw (I was shocked up throw works)

 

[GabPR]

indeed it does, you can guarentee to take a spacie to the edge in FD with chain grabs, which can later proceed to an easy edgeguard since the spacies options are limited and you have the tools to prevent their return. As for plataformed stages you can force them into a techchase scenario on the ledges in which their options are also limited

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

indeed it does, you can guarentee to take a spacie to the edge in FD with chain grabs, which can later proceed to an easy edgeguard since the spacies options are limited and you have the tools to prevent their return. As for plataformed stages you can force them into a techchase scenario on the ledges in which their options are also limited

I normally techchase them and no matter where they tech I would do the side b dragging and gimp them its guaranteed as long as you know how to gimp them the right way like vs Fox or Wolf you must nair after one homing attack

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Side-b kick is a great setup for homing attack gimps.

 

[GabPR]

How about plataform tech chases from below? If they are in high percentages I usually just nair for the kill, but in lower percentages I prefer either up air for strings, down air since it staggers the enemy for combos or simply wavedash on it and go for another grab.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

It seems like Sonic has very good approach options nair & fair are broken because they can go through certain projectiles

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I need help with the Luigi Matchup !

 

[Krusty Kid]

Hello Pr0fessor Flash,

As someone who uses Luigi heavily and has some Sonic experience playing as him I think I could throw in a couple tips as it pertains to the match-up. First and foremost going into the match you want to go in with the thought process of patience. That's really what it's going to come down to. Luigi is just one of those few who doesn't get comboed easily. With that said you'll want to take your hits while in, then get out quickly.. staying locked in a bout with the man in green isn't a good idea. Try and throw your opponent off with delayed or falsified approaches, this will lead to some guessing on their part which could leave them open for attack. Sonic's down b into combo works well for the Uair against Luigi if you can hit it just right. Most Luigi's will utilize fireballs to dictate the pace, mix it up with Nair's and spacing to bypass this. Careful of Luigi's Nair, it neutralizes Sonic's approaches very well. When engaging Luigi work on being creative, don't be afraid to use up b followed by a shifty dair to get out of a bad situation. Reload and keep up the drive, dictating the tempo is key.

My advice to you would be for you to bang up on Luigi in practice mode, there you'll be able to practice what works and doesn't on him given his unique weight. Another important factor, don't just understand the character, but the player as well. Once you get those two things down there's no one you can't threaten. Just my two cents.

Anyone else is free to toss in their in put on the matchup as well.

 

[alphabattack]

Any help with the mewtwo matchup would be greatly appreciated

 

[GabPR]

Any help with the mewtwo matchup would be greatly appreciated

Although I have not played much vs any good mewtwo's, I will give it a shot to give ideas an such. From what I know, it may be unwise to approach mewtwo from above due to his ridiculous hitboxes on his up tilt and up air. Some throws shadowballs in a fast pace and you may be inclined to jump on top of him, but unless he is at a really close distance to catch him with a dair or any other aerial you could powershield his projectiles and avoid getting too close until you see an opening. His recovery might seem good at first, but once you get a hang of the distance it travels, you can sort of predict when he will appear, according to mewtwo's frame data here on smashboards, he is invisible from frames 8-18 (If im not mistaken, during this invisibility you should be able to hit him in the spot where he chose to teleport in), he can act out of his teleport in the air at 23 frames and he needs another 5 for his fastest hitboxes, either nair or fair, his fastest aerials, so that gives you about 28 frames or more or less half a second to guess where he is appearing and punish him. Hope this helps.

 

[Kerfuffle]

It was talked about a little bit, but I really need some advice on the Marth MU. I get chaingrabbed to f-smash every single time, no matter what my DI. Any tips?

 

[Player -0]

It was talked about a little bit, but I really need some advice on the Marth MU. I get chaingrabbed to f-smash every single time, no matter what my DI. Any tips?

DI Out and Down, be ready to tech.

 

[Solharath]

Hello Pr0fessor Flash,

As someone who uses Luigi heavily and has some Sonic experience playing as him I think I could throw in a couple tips as it pertains to the match-up. First and foremost going into the match you want to go in with the thought process of patience. That's really what it's going to come down to. Luigi is just one of those few who doesn't get comboed easily. With that said you'll want to take your hits while in, then get out quickly.. staying locked in a bout with the man in green isn't a good idea. Try and throw your opponent off with delayed or falsified approaches, this will lead to some guessing on their part which could leave them open for attack. Sonic's down b into combo works well for the Uair against Luigi if you can hit it just right. Most Luigi's will utilize fireballs to dictate the pace, mix it up with Nair's and spacing to bypass this. Careful of Luigi's Nair, it neutralizes Sonic's approaches very well. When engaging Luigi work on being creative, don't be afraid to use up b followed by a shifty dair to get out of a bad situation. Reload and keep up the drive, dictating the tempo is key.

My advice to you would be for you to bang up on Luigi in practice mode, there you'll be able to practice what works and doesn't on him given his unique weight. Another important factor, don't just understand the character, but the player as well. Once you get those two things down there's no one you can't threaten. Just my two cents.

Anyone else is free to toss in their in put on the matchup as well.

Ftilt. Ftilt Ftilt Ftilt. Sonic's Ftilt does a great many things against the man in green, and almost all of deals with 'if he doesn't misfire, you're safe'. I keep running into Luigi's left and right at tournaments, especially when I travel, and in the end ftilt has been Sonic's greatest tool. It stops a DownB approach, a WD>anything approach(this includes Up and Down smash), and even when poorly spaced it'll trade, often favorably(or at worst back to neutral) against any other option. If a Luigi is in the air, approach and hold your shield out, preferably tilted upwards so Sonic's big head doesn't get ticked by a tricky uair or dair.

I've not seen many Luigi's using fireball(except myself against Luigi mains, wheras I'm often asked why I'm fireballing(I tell them it's because it works(I'm actually doing it because of Mario strats))), but when I do see the mean green ball of fire, I just... ftilt. It'll clash and Sonic can ftilt again to deal with any followup Luigi can muster. Don't get too crazy, of course - you want to ftilt to clash, not ftilt randomly.

Sonic's Utilt, spaced, can break through the brunt of Luigi's aerial game, only having issue with perfectly spaced Dair and... that's about it. I've not had a nair break through my utilt when it's correctly spaced, but I have seen a trade or two when the spacing isn't ideal - it's best to hit him when he is more horizontally out, not vertically.

 

[Star ☆]

I've been versing an Ice Climbers main recently and I feel Sonic absolutely wrecks with his Side B in that matchup. Separating the Icies are no problem with the continuous hits of the spins. Also, killing Nana early is very easy by seperating with side b, homing attack Nana then a few uairs to close it out. Popo is usually too slow to catch up and prevent the kill. You can also kill Nana off the side easy with Fair. From a more fundamental perspective, I also feel Sonic can avoid the Ice Climbers' plan of grabs due to his intense speed and aerial approaches. Good spacing with Flilts and Fairs lock down grounded approaches from the Climbers very well.

If you're ever going to fight Icies at any point, switch to Sonic. He absolutely steamrolls them!

Spoiler

Though that might not happen, considering how unpopular the Ice Climbers are

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

The only thing I like about the Meta Knight Matchup is his weight because it seems kind of easy to combo him in my opinion! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY97cflstIw