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Little mac skill and viability much different offline to Online

jet56

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
hey, so i decided to post this to get the word out on what you read the title to be. No, this is not a For glory, lag, camping, rolling, or otherwise salty rant about the online atmosphere. this is just to verify the very important point that little macs meta game and viability drop off tremendously online, then when you were to do so online. that isn't to say that it is impossible to play mac online, or use him to his best. there are however a few things that need to be pointed out:

1. inherent online lag, which comes with every online game.
2. micro input lag, where the game will miss an input by a player.
3. delayed inputs, where the game reads an input late.
4. buffer lag, where the game will be very stiff for a solid 10 seconds or more, before play is stable again.

those are the main things, there are others but we won't get into them. little mac suffers greatly from this, due to his reliance on punishes, frame data, super armor, and movement tech (p pivots, dash dancing, etc.)
while everyone suffers the same online problems, little mac is one of those characters that suffers the most, since the reasons stated above hinder or even nullify little macs greatest strengths. this isn't a john or an excuse, just a fact that must be kept in mind.

i still play online quite a bit, anthers ladder anyways (senpaimac, silver II in case you want to find me). but for me and for other mac players as well, don't judge your own play too much on your online matches.

oh and if you have personal stories or something to say on the topic, please comment below, i love your guy's responses!
 

Zoramine Fae

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Now, as someone who trains daily on For Glory, this is a ridiculously awful issue when it comes to playing as Mac. The best thing you can do is hope that either your counter works, Your FSmash armors through theirs, or that your opponent isn't a Bowser.
 

Nah

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tbh I have a hard time believing that Mac suffers that much online. Not with that immaculate frame data and the fact that the stage is always his best one.
 

Zoramine Fae

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tbh I have a hard time believing that Mac suffers that much online. Not with that immaculate frame data and the fact that the stage is always his best one.
Getting hit by one or two attacks pretty much gives you zero chance over recovery, and while you can react to smashes more often than not you'll be hoping that you inputted the roll getup and not the attacking one like you thought you did when the opponent Warlock Punches with all the armor in the universe next to the ledge.

Maybe he doesn't SUCK in lag, he's just a lot worse. Could be worse, though. (Zelda, Sheik, Mega Man, etc)
 

jazaniac

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
21
tbh I have a hard time believing that Mac suffers that much online. Not with that immaculate frame data and the fact that the stage is always his best one.
Just cause the stage is his best one doesn't necessarily mean he has the advantage on it. Just that he's at the least disadvantage. A lot of characters still perform better on FD than Mac.

Also, Mac requires incredible precision in recovery. If there's a slight amount of extra lag, you either you undershoot the ledge or you overcompensate for the lag, don't snap to it and get gimped.
 

Nah

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idk why you guys are bringing up Mac's recovery as an argument when his recovery is still terrible regardless of whether you're playing online or offline.

I'm not saying that he doesn't suffer from online, because everyone does (though I also think that people tend to overexaggerate how much online hinders them), just that I'm skeptical of the claim the OP makes that Mac is one of the characters that suffers the most out of the entire cast.
 

jet56

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
idk why you guys are bringing up Mac's recovery as an argument when his recovery is still terrible regardless of whether you're playing online or offline.

I'm not saying that he doesn't suffer from online, because everyone does (though I also think that people tend to overexaggerate how much online hinders them), just that I'm skeptical of the claim the OP makes that Mac is one of the characters that suffers the most out of the entire cast.
perhaps not the most out of the whole cast, but more. his biggest strengths are hindered due to lag, as it becomes harder to punish, perform advanced movement tech, and out prioritize other moves with his fast frame data. everyone else suffers this disadvantage as well, but the difference is, mac is reliant on it, and is how the character is best utilized. other characters don't have to perform advanced tech, or don't use priority or punish as much. this is why zoning and defensive characters benefit from online play, as their main style of play is more or less unhindered, while more technical or faster characters suffer more.
 

shinhed-echi

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Well this thread was heavensent.

I've been REALLY hesitant about using Little Mac competitively now that I'm back in my hometown where there are a LOT of tourneys going on. But I've been doubting my Mac skills BECAUSE of my more recent For Glory results.

But this thread shined a little light right now, and maybe I oughta give it my all as Mac before prematurely judging my own skills with him in the competitive scene. I admit I've done PHENOMENALLY as him against some friends offline.
 

Zoramine Fae

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Well this thread was heavensent.

I've been REALLY hesitant about using Little Mac competitively now that I'm back in my hometown where there are a LOT of tourneys going on. But I've been doubting my Mac skills BECAUSE of my more recent For Glory results.

But this thread shined a little light right now, and maybe I oughta give it my all as Mac before prematurely judging my own skills with him in the competitive scene. I admit I've done PHENOMENALLY as him against some friends offline.
Honestly, the best thing for a competitive Mac is knowing how to be patient. If you have that down and don't just rush in, you probably will do well.
 

shinhed-echi

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Honestly, the best thing for a competitive Mac is knowing how to be patient. If you have that down and don't just rush in, you probably will do well.
Just finished a tournament.
I mostly entered as :4sonic:, but :4megaman:and :4littlemac:got their chance to shine a bit as well.

By far my most enjoyable fights were the ones where I played as :4littlemac:. They were all against:4zss:, I managed to beat her 1 out of 3. I lost, but mostly becaused I hesitated a KO punch. It was REALLY close. I COULD have done better, if I had stuck to Mac, instead of changing to Sonic, where I got 2-stocked, and that kind of bummed me out a bit.
I won the 1st match by delivering a super satisfying reverse KO punch!

Next time, I'll play as him some more. It was my first Sm4sh tourney, 51 players, and I got 3rd.
I know I can do better. I just needed to practice with real people off Glory some more.
 

Sonic Orochi

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Just finished a tournament.
I mostly entered as :4sonic:, but :4megaman:and :4littlemac:got their chance to shine a bit as well.

By far my most enjoyable fights were the ones where I played as :4littlemac:. They were all against:4zss:, I managed to beat her 1 out of 3. I lost, but mostly becaused I hesitated a KO punch. It was REALLY close. I COULD have done better, if I had stuck to Mac, instead of changing to Sonic, where I got 2-stocked, and that kind of bummed me out a bit.
I won the 1st match by delivering a super satisfying reverse KO punch!

Next time, I'll play as him some more. It was my first Sm4sh tourney, 51 players, and I got 3rd.
I know I can do better. I just needed to practice with real people off Glory some more.
ZSS is one of Sonic's worst, if not the worst, MUs.

I do well against ZSS with Mac, too, but does anyone know if there's a better counterpick against her?
 

Dr.Peabody

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Lil Mac is really the bane of online play, imo.

"LOL LOOK I CAN SPAM SMASHES AND YOU CAN'T PROPERLY REACT TO THEM BECAUSE LAG. OH LOOK I WON, *drops out*"
 

Actilide

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Now, as someone who trains daily on For Glory, this is a ridiculously awful issue when it comes to playing as Mac. The best thing you can do is hope that either your counter works, Your FSmash armors through theirs, or that your opponent isn't a Bowser.
>trains daily
>for glory
PICK ONE
 

Zoramine Fae

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>trains daily
>for glory
PICK ONE
It's not my fault that I don't enjoy playing Anthers at all and most of my local people around me being pretty much garbage. If I could I'd do other things. And yes, DAILY I will play FOR GLORY because its the only thing I can do to get better. And I don't expect myself to be perfect after doing so, and I do matches against a few good people on Pokemon Showdown just for some tips here and there. For what I am I'm pretty good.
 

HakuryuVision

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It's not my fault that I don't enjoy playing Anthers at all and most of my local people around me being pretty much garbage. If I could I'd do other things. And yes, DAILY I will play FOR GLORY because its the only thing I can do to get better. And I don't expect myself to be perfect after doing so, and I do matches against a few good people on Pokemon Showdown just for some tips here and there. For what I am I'm pretty good.
Yeah, sometimes it isn't a matter of choice.
Some people don't have many options when it comes to playing smash, and FG is still better than playing against CPUs.
 
Last edited:

shinhed-echi

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Yeah, sometimes it isn't a matter of choice.
Some people don't have many options when it comes to playing smash, and FG is still better than playing against CPUs.
I know just how that feels. For a little over a year, For Glory was the only real way of getting better at this game.
 
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