Little Mac may actually be god tier.

[Leoinu]

Now hear me out. This isnt a rage post lol. Little Mac can be beaten thats for sure. I main Captain Falcon. A down tilt on a Mac at like 70-100% is usually a death sentence. However...

Lets face it. For Glory is filled with complete scrubs, morons. So basing your skill against Little Mac judging on your For glory matches should be through right out the window.

I have a friend, who was super into Brawl competitively, and now hes in Smash 3ds. And now Little Mac is his main. And he brought a ton of new things I need to know about Little Mac. So lets list em off.

-His speed.

We all know how fast he is. And perhaps my views are clouded since I more or less only play falcon and his smashes are considerably slower than most, but Little mac has some pretty god like speeds on his smashes and tilts, so fast that they are really hard to punish when hes in the hands of a good player. Also this, how many players in For Glory have you seen use his Down Dodge? None right? Like I said before, they're scrubs. His dodges, perhaps have the fastest recovery I've seen, even his air dodge, combine that with his smash speeds? Again, hard to punish him for missing.

-His Counter.

Now I know for a fact none of you have seen frequent use of his counter in For Glory, but his Counter, makes his one weakness pretty hard to abuse, like I said. In the hands of a good play, his counter can, and most likely WILL **** you over in your attempts to gimp him, unless you quickly adapt to your opponents playstyle quickly and bait it out. Which I can manage to do on a few occasions, but never the less, this makes gimping him extremely hard as it will hit you most likely since its not like Shulk ****ty counter in mid air. Couple that with on stage and its very lethal.

-His Down Smash

You may think I've covered this already but his down smash is by far his best move. Why? It has an extremely large hit box. That can be used for edge guarding. If you're knocked off stage, and your opponent has average timing, sorry you're not recovering, depending on the character at least. Keep in mind this is from a mindset for characters who's main recovering ability is very vertical and used for grabbing the edge.

I know its hard to believe me when it comes to these assumptions since most of everyones views of Little Mac is so clouded by For Glory, but play against a player who seriously knows his ins and outs, and he becomes a very tough opponent. Like I said I'm not really raging, me and him go at it neck and neck a ton of times, and I'm glad I'm playing against someone of his level cause hes showing me how deadly Mac can be, I'm gona be recording some matches to later update this thread with. Perhaps more verteran players can watch them to tell me I'm wrong and how to counter his play, but when it comes to trashy For Glory players who do the super predictable **** compared to this guy. Trust me, whos above their level. He knows how to recover with Mac, he knows his speed, he knows his potential.

 

[KingTeo]

Little Mac has a very high ease of use but a low potential ceiling. Decent players who know how to play him may seem like monsters, but when they fight against other decent players, Little Macs tend to fall short.

494

 

[shlemon]

I don't know about that, I saw someone get 2nd place in a tournament vs Denti with only little mac. We truly don't know any character's skill ceiling yet.

 

[GeZ]

I think that once the edge game develops, little mac will fall way off. I know that I haven't dropped a match with Pac-Man since I figured out that getting Mac off stage and then throwing a Nair in his way will guarantee a kill.

 

[Chinaux]

Throw little mac off the edge and see how god tier he is then.

 

[CharZane]

A Little Mac that's off stage has done something horribly wrong from the start. Between his super armor and his speed, how exactly do you intend to get him off the stage to begin with? Easy gimping means zip if he's impossible to get into a situation where he needs to recover to begin with.

Not to mention that between his super armor and KO punch it's absurdly easy to both keep and snatch away a lead. To say nothing of the gimp Mac's Nair provides. That, and there are plenty of characters with worse recoveries who are even more prone to gimping. Bowser and DK have comperable recoveries, and many characters have safety issues in recovery that Mac generally doesn't-- while his recovery range is one of the smallest, his recovering options and potential safety far exceed many of the staff. Counters give an option against gimping, and his up B is both instant and damaging, which makes spikes at least more difficult to set than against, say, Robin, Pit, or Fox.

His recovery is only an issue if you play stupidly despite an entire moveset dedicated to safety. Dash attack? One of the safest in the game. Smashes? Super armor; safe. KO punch? Wind on wiff; safe. Jolt haymaker? Invulnerability frames plus triggerable range making it all but a faster shadow sneak; safe. Slip counter? Definition of safe. Downsmash roll punishing? One of the only characters in the game who's guaranteed to succeed with such; safe. Jab combo? Fastest in the game, can't be DI'd out of anywhere near as easily as most, can't be countered in progress; safe. Neutral B sans KO punch? Even his stupidest, riskiest move is, technically, almost entirely safe so long as you don't fully charge it and get grabbed because, again, super armor; safe. Literally the only risks to him are aerials and grabbing, but the former is almost eliminated thanks to his specials, while the latter is only relevant if trying to grab moving foes (which would be pointless as you have far better options).

Let me clarify something. I've spent a few hundred matches practicing as Robin, even discounting the hours in training mode... and I'm still thrice as good with Little Mac as I am with Robin. Likewise for Marth/Lucina (my secondary), Ike, Shulk, Link... literally every character I've played for more than a few hours (that is, all of them barring, ironically, Little Mac) has clear strengths and weaknesses that are always relevant in a given battle. Robin has no shield grab and iffy roll punishes. Lucina has limited KO options against less gimpable characters. Ike has limited quicker moves and mixups. Link has quite a few unwieldy, laggy melee moves. Luigi has comperable recovery to LM and so-so non-gimp KO power. DK is the world's biggest hitbox. Dedede's Gordos can be deflected and he's grab-reliant. Jiggly doesn't have much ground game... Yet... Little Mac doesn't feel to have relevant weaknesses, given the type of game he plays.

People always mention how stages like Battlefield will completely turn the matchup around, yet... why would that be? If you're on a platform and he's not, there's no reason for Mac to follow you into an air-versus-ground fight, and if you move to meet him his super armor cares not whether you're in the air or on the ground. And if you're both on a platform, it's not exactly different from ground level, save for the fact that you can't keep out of his range. Barring stupid risks on his part (again, not how Mac's built), the stage is irrelevant if he's patient... I thought the clue of how his games work would have revealed that much, actually.

But here's the real kicker... his aerials are decidedly okay. Small hitboxes? Sure. But by no means bad. For interrupting laggier aerials through hitstun, they're fantastic, for example-- chasing a villager into the air to Uair his turnips will never be an expected move, and being able to clock a Nairing Shulk or the like before you're hit is exactly what these extremely quick aerials excel at-- furthermore, their lack of knockback is a blessing for the combos they create. We all know how formidable his Nair can be (even without the gimp, given the combos it creates), but the only difference with his other aerials is their lack of repeatability... Honestly, I think that Sakurai's claim of LM having an intentionally weak air game went to everyone's heads and created an assumption that his aerials have no role... but that couldn't be further from the truth. His aerials aren't meant for damage nor knockback, certainly, but as interrupts, they're actually some of the best, as they have a very consistent factor of speed-- which happens to be what allows Luigi an aerial edge over Mario, given the former's laggier Fair. Not that Mac's aerials are good, but they're certainly usable. In fact, perhaps moreso than any other character's, given that they will never be predicted-- people completely ignore that he even has air moves, more often than not, it seems.

Honestly, the only things that kept me from maining Mac from the get-go were the stigma of his overuse and enjoying the technicality of Robin's playstyle... I certainly love Punch-Out!!, granted, but after Metaknight, I felt afraid of the hype. Much as I love Robin, every couple of matches has me feeling more and more like I'm playing under some self-imposed handicap-- no amount of interest and clever theory for a character will assure any translation into play. I've no doubt in the potential of Robin any more than LM, but I'm certainly wondering at if I'm even capable of the playstyle required in any consistent way... I always hear about how a 'mistake with mac means he loses', but that honestly feels like some twisted inverse-truth...

Hm... swording tradition be damned, actually. Little Mac's my new dual main. Between replaying Punch Out mere months before his original announcement (along with watching Hajime no Ippo, for that matter), I've got enough of a boxing bug to go for it. Neither Robin nor Lucina are really rushdown material anyway, which I'm more and more suspecting is what my smash 4 persona is shifting towards...

 

[GeZ]

Super armor is a gimmick. At a competitive level it won't grant you anything because your opponent knows what has armor and just won't be stupid and try to challenge those things. It's a slight modification of playstyle. Mac has a safe-ish toolbox but that doesn't at all mean that he's really difficult to punish. for instance, most of his options on approach aren't shield grabbable, but they are spot dodge > grabbable.

His recovery is bad strictly because of the distance issue. If someone puts you off the stage at low percents, it's usually part of a combo, which means they push you too far to reach the edge. If they put you off the stage at high percents, it means you're far away enough to really have to struggle to recover (side B, hope your opponent doesn't know the matchup).

You kind of declare everything he has safe for some iffy reasons. It's true he has some safe moves, but saying armor = safety is wrong. The problem is that he doesn't have much disjoint or lingering hitboxes, so it boils down to a read being a grab easily. He's also very comboable, which means that his "safe" dash attack lost him the stock because Sheik spot dodged > grabbed > Bair'd > Bair'd > and that's a stock.

Little Mac has some of the clearest weaknesses of the cast. That's why he's considered to have some of the hardest MU counters in the game. In tourney one person goes little mac and the other person switches to a tough MU character game two, and that makes the little Mac player have to struggle really hard. Aerial characters kick little Mac in the face. Characters with good combo and gimping games do the same. Characters with safe-ish ranged harassment do the same.

The platform thing isn't really true either. Platform camping is a big issue for Mac. I can jump to meet them on the platform, but that's putting himself in a super risky position. This isn't Melee or P:M. Getting from the ground to a platform has a ton of inherent risk, especially if the character you're playing has poor aerial abilities.

I think you just smoked too much burning bush for your spiel on his aerials. Decidedly okay is not how I would describe them. I thought they might be before the game came out, but the fact of the matter is meeting someone midair with an aerial is the worst idea, and it's because of his aerials lack of hitstun. Lets say you are fighting villager and you jump up and do some aerial to interrupt his turnip. His turnip is interrupted, and he comes out of hitstun immediately, and he bops you with an Nair while you're still in lag from your aerial. Nair transitions to positional advantage, if not a combo and Mac starts to fall off from there.

Basically, Mac is so hyped up right now because this is a new smash game. New smash means that the punish game is the worst it'll be ever. Once punishes universally develop Mac will fall way off in competitive usage because of his penchant to get killed off of one mistake. He's got Melee Fox's inherent weakness, without having the skill cap to make his playstyle oppressively dominant because you're out thinking your opponent every frame of every second for an entire match.

 

[CharZane]

Super armor is a gimmick. At a competitive level it won't grant you anything because your opponent knows what has armor and just won't be stupid and try to challenge those things. It's a slight modification of playstyle. Mac has a safe-ish toolbox but that doesn't at all mean that he's really difficult to punish. for instance, most of his options on approach aren't shield grabbable, but they are spot dodge > grabbable.

His recovery is bad strictly because of the distance issue. If someone puts you off the stage at low percents, it's usually part of a combo, which means they push you too far to reach the edge. If they put you off the stage at high percents, it means you're far away enough to really have to struggle to recover (side B, hope your opponent doesn't know the matchup).

You kind of declare everything he has safe for some iffy reasons. It's true he has some safe moves, but saying armor = safety is wrong. The problem is that he doesn't have much disjoint or lingering hitboxes, so it boils down to a read being a grab easily. He's also very comboable, which means that his "safe" dash attack lost him the stock because Sheik spot dodged > grabbed > Bair'd > Bair'd > and that's a stock.

Little Mac has some of the clearest weaknesses of the cast. That's why he's considered to have some of the hardest MU counters in the game. In tourney one person goes little mac and the other person switches to a tough MU character game two, and that makes the little Mac player have to struggle really hard. Aerial characters kick little Mac in the face. Characters with good combo and gimping games do the same. Characters with safe-ish ranged harassment do the same.

The platform thing isn't really true either. Platform camping is a big issue for Mac. I can jump to meet them on the platform, but that's putting himself in a super risky position. This isn't Melee or P:M. Getting from the ground to a platform has a ton of inherent risk, especially if the character you're playing has poor aerial abilities.

I think you just smoked too much burning bush for your spiel on his aerials. Decidedly okay is not how I would describe them. I thought they might be before the game came out, but the fact of the matter is meeting someone midair with an aerial is the worst idea, and it's because of his aerials lack of hitstun. Lets say you are fighting villager and you jump up and do some aerial to interrupt his turnip. His turnip is interrupted, and he comes out of hitstun immediately, and he bops you with an Nair while you're still in lag from your aerial. Nair transitions to positional advantage, if not a combo and Mac starts to fall off from there.

Basically, Mac is so hyped up right now because this is a new smash game. New smash means that the punish game is the worst it'll be ever. Once punishes universally develop Mac will fall way off in competitive usage because of his penchant to get killed off of one mistake. He's got Melee Fox's inherent weakness, without having the skill cap to make his playstyle oppressively dominant because you're out thinking your opponent every frame of every second for an entire match.

Multiple, speedy attacks with super armor are what make Mac's super armor useful. Other characters have had super armor before, sure, but on a very limited scale, like Ike's Aether or Yoshi's double-jump. Knowing that there is super armor on a move does not make the super armor irrelevant any more than knowing that Mario's going to zone you with some fireball spam makes those irrelevant-- knowledge does not make a mechanic necessarily obsolete. It's certainly much more relevant at lower levels of play, I'm sure, but that doesn't make super armor pointless as a defense any more than rolling. Yes, rolling is massively punishable at higher levels of play, but it still sees use-- just far less. By all means, I can definitely see saying that I'm overstating super armor there, but super armor gives Mac options when reading the opponent that open up his own punishes. Rather than spot-dodge or shield a hit, he has the option to super armor punish it. It's certainly no less of a tool than counter-- and it doesn't need to see any constant use to be relevant as a tool.

Plenty of characters have terrible recovery range, is all I'm saying. And plenty more have predictable recoveries. My only claim is that, while his recovery's certainly not good, his recovery is treated like it's the most predictable or most gimpable in the game, which just aren't true. Too many people have been ranting as if he can't recover at all, which is just ridiculous.

I'm saying only that each of his moves can be safe more often than is typical. Having a safer kit than the norm doesn't mean someone won't be rightly KOed for playing flat stupidly by, say, dash attacking a sheilding sheik at the edge. His comboable nature doesn't feel to be too particularly outrageous, given his access to counter (which many combo-vulnerable characters quite lack), even if it does little to keep him from being juggled. A lack of disjoints or lingering hitboxes is inarguably going to make him more grab vulnerable, but the fact that he has a multitude of quick attacks with good hitboxes and low-lag options means it's not like he has nothing to work with. Though, disjointed hitboxes are definitely going to be a basis for many of his more difficult matchups (i.e. Marth), and he certainly has weaknesses that're clear... but I don't feel like having his weaknesses be advertised more openly than the rest of the cast means that they hit him disproportionately hard. Plenty of characters have the same degree of issue with being comboed, dealing with projectiles, or being gimped... in fact, I'd argue that plenty have moreso of an issue than Mac, given his kit. It's not unique to Mac to have weaknesses that can end games in a hurry.

Eager as you are to insult me, you seem to have missed my point in mentioning his aerials at all: that they're usable. That they exist. And that they're unexpected. I never called them good aerials, just mentioned that they have a purpose. My giving a singular poor example by mentioning villager's Dair does not invalidate that Mac's aerials exist and have their uses. Are those uses numerous? No. Are they anything spectacular? No. But they exist, and they're ignored, which can make mechanically unsafe aerials psychologically safe. Someone expecting, say, a jumping counter or an up B could certainly be surprised by the use of what are known to be 'terrible' moves. It's their reputation as useless that specifically makes them valuable. I'm not claiming that jumping after someone is ever your 'best' option as Mac-- merely that, contrary to popular believe, it does exist. 'Okay' just happens to be the least positive term I could think of that wasn't implying pointlessness. Adequate? Usable? Existing? I'm by no means any expert on transcribing my thoughts (as my lacking brevity should have long made clear), but insults aren't accomplishing anything.

On this last point, I agree wholeheartedly... I just think that his weaknesses are just as overhyped as his strengths. Though, I don't agree with your implication that you know the skill caps of any character-- sorry, but it's way too early for anyone to get by with a claim that arrogant, and I don't personally believe in time travel.

Edit: To clarify, something which I'm not sure how clear I've made, I think Mac is apt to be viable at any level of play. I don't expect him to be the Metaknight of Smash 4 by any stretch-- just for him to be viable. Realized only after the fact that I looked to be arguing for the OP, but it was more directed at the dismissive 'LM F tier' comments than anything. Excuse any confusion.

 

[GeZ]

I agree that super armor gives Mac options. That's a better way to frame it. But I do think that knowing what moves has super armor does nullify the abuse of that property on its own nigh completely. It's like P:M Mario playerbase's reliance on fireballs. Most of them do it, so if you can defuse their fireball game, they'll struggle. I think that might happen for Mac too, though not as drastically. Something in the future, be it a strategy, or aspect of a character, will largely defuse Mac's armor and benefit from that armor, and he'll fall a little bit then in ability.

His recovery itself is strong-ish, but I feel like once people have the offstage game on lock it'll amount to something like Falco's if not worse. A good grasp of it's priority and range will make it very beatable.

The reason I see his weaknesses as a really unique issue for him is that they fit together in an unfortunate way for him. For instance, he's susceptible to comboing out of grab by a lot of the cast from low to mid-high percents. If Sheik's chain grab ends up working on him Sheik will be able to CG to about 60% then Fthrow into Down B (which is guarantee'd on Mac with good timing on the Sheik's part). Factor in his poor recovery and that's a stock. Characters with equal combo ability (Mario) will be able to do similar work on him. I don't think it's completely debilitating, but I think Mac will even out in ability to battle the rest of the cast, rather than be dominant.

The burning bush thing was a joke man. Not really a harsh one at that. But sorry if I offended you. It wasn't in mean spirit. His aerial game may be unexpected, but I don't think that grants it much. The only really good application I've seen of it is using Nair to start a combo on a grounded opponent. The thing with hyping up his aerials surprise factor is that good players understand options. If Mac leaves the ground you can expect the aerial and harp on any aerial of your own to exchange with/ beat his. There haven't been many "you can use this once a match to catch them off guard" options in Smash that turn out to be worth putting time into. I don't think Mac's aerials will be an exception.

I believe he'll be viable. Just with some tough matchups. I don't think he'll be god tier. That's what I'm arguing against. He doesn't have the making for that.

I say he'll drop off because he has all the makings of a character that's easy to pickup, but plateau's really hard. Like Ike early on in Brawl, or Bowser earlier in P:M.

But no hard feelings man, whatever the outcome.

 

[Lilfut]

Here's the thing about Mac: when you fight him, you feel way more like you're playing Punch-Out than he does. You gotta play him like a PO opponent. Watch his moves, play defensively, and when he's open, you capitalize on that ****. Dodge his punch and then counter-punch. Admittedly, as a Ganon main, I do that anyway, but against Mac it feels especially effective. The important thing, though, is that Mac controls the flow of battle - if you're up against him, you need to be reactive, not proactive.

 

[Speculator]

You said it yourself OP, you're using a character that is poorly matched up against Mac. Mac is very true to his Punch-Out appearances in that he is able to rush in and intercept opponents before they attack, which is made much easier taking into account Captain Falcon's slow smashes.

To me, Rosalina & Luma seem unbelievably overpowered to the point of being almost unbeatable - but I'm a Ness main. It's all about perspective.

 

[Chinaux]

Here's the thing about Mac: when you fight him, you feel way more like you're playing Punch-Out than he does. You gotta play him like a PO opponent. Watch his moves, play defensively, and when he's open, you capitalize on that ****. Dodge his punch and then counter-punch. Admittedly, as a Ganon main, I do that anyway, but against Mac it feels especially effective. The important thing, though, is that Mac controls the flow of battle - if you're up against him, you need to be reactive, not proactive.

Honestly you really just need to be quicker than him and keep him off the stage. I haven't lost to a single little mac since I've done this. (for glory too, if that makes any difference)

 

[CharZane]

I agree that super armor gives Mac options. That's a better way to frame it. But I do think that knowing what moves has super armor does nullify the abuse of that property on its own nigh completely. It's like P:M Mario playerbase's reliance on fireballs. Most of them do it, so if you can defuse their fireball game, they'll struggle. I think that might happen for Mac too, though not as drastically. Something in the future, be it a strategy, or aspect of a character, will largely defuse Mac's armor and benefit from that armor, and he'll fall a little bit then in ability.

His recovery itself is strong-ish, but I feel like once people have the offstage game on lock it'll amount to something like Falco's if not worse. A good grasp of it's priority and range will make it very beatable.

The reason I see his weaknesses as a really unique issue for him is that they fit together in an unfortunate way for him. For instance, he's susceptible to comboing out of grab by a lot of the cast from low to mid-high percents. If Sheik's chain grab ends up working on him Sheik will be able to CG to about 60% then Fthrow into Down B (which is guarantee'd on Mac with good timing on the Sheik's part). Factor in his poor recovery and that's a stock. Characters with equal combo ability (Mario) will be able to do similar work on him. I don't think it's completely debilitating, but I think Mac will even out in ability to battle the rest of the cast, rather than be dominant.

The burning bush thing was a joke man. Not really a harsh one at that. But sorry if I offended you. It wasn't in mean spirit. His aerial game may be unexpected, but I don't think that grants it much. The only really good application I've seen of it is using Nair to start a combo on a grounded opponent. The thing with hyping up his aerials surprise factor is that good players understand options. If Mac leaves the ground you can expect the aerial and harp on any aerial of your own to exchange with/ beat his. There haven't been many "you can use this once a match to catch them off guard" options in Smash that turn out to be worth putting time into. I don't think Mac's aerials will be an exception.

I believe he'll be viable. Just with some tough matchups. I don't think he'll be god tier. That's what I'm arguing against. He doesn't have the making for that.

I say he'll drop off because he has all the makings of a character that's easy to pickup, but plateau's really hard. Like Ike early on in Brawl, or Bowser earlier in P:M.

But no hard feelings man, whatever the outcome.

I agree with everything you're saying here, really-- don't think he'll be god tier either, but that he'll be viable. Took away a hostile tone from your original post (text is a horrible medium for reading tone), but we look to be mostly in agreement. Projectiles and tether grabs strike me as particularly solid answers to his super armor, in particular, and I rather do think his matchups are more polarizing than some... But 'god tier' could only ever describe him as a counterpick secondary, I'm suspecting, should someone's main have MU problems that can be shored up slightly by a Mac attack.

Definitely agree with his recovery being akin to Falco's-- in fact, I think that's the best parallel I've yet heard. Wall-bearing stages allow for some bit of mixup to his vertical recovery and counters to his horizontal, but he's at best par with the likes of Falco... though, moreso past Falcos, when Phantasm caused special fall.

On the aerials, I certainly get that they're by no means apt to be worth investing much into-- Nair aside, jumping aerials are plenty predictable enough even on characters with fantastic air games. But I'm terrified of the idea of them being completely pointless sticking when there's still the potential for us to find more... well, potential out of them. Are there any moves they out-priority? Any characters who can be minimally hitstunned out of retaliation, a la the Nair gimp? Any unconventional fake-outs or baits that they can create (something involving slip counter or the like on an expected retaliation)? I'm certainly not sure, but his aerial game still does, to me, feel to be the slightest step above dreadful or the like, even if it's mostly due to his specials and Nair.

I do feel like he'll be more apt to 'fall out' down the line, but... I'm not as convinced that it'll be as early or as definite as Ike. I get the weird sense that he might have some sort of resurgence after some hard fall-- melee Jigglypuff or Brawl Ice Climbers come to mind, albeit neither quite work as parallels to the idea. But I'm certainly speculating way too many years ahead, at this point. ^^"

Likewise, though, no hard feelings. My initial post was certainly zealous after reading so many dismissive posts on 'F-tier little Mac' and all that felt just as bandwagon-ready as the quantity of Mac's in For Glory. Definitely kept me from keeping as much clarity as I'd have liked.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Honestly you really just need to be quicker than him and keep him off the stage. I haven't lost to a single little mac since I've done this. (for glory too, if that makes any difference)

ehhh You haven't played many good ones if you think that it's that simple .

 

[Chinaux]

ehhh You haven't played many good ones if you think that it's that simple .

How so? It's worked many times, you just need to predict him well and not let him wreck you on the ground.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

How so? It's worked many times, you just need to predict him well and not let him wreck you on the ground.

Easier said then done. Play me in some matches, and you might not feel the same afterwards lol.

 

[CharZane]

...you just need to predict him well and not let him wreck you...

That has nothing to do with the matchup-- if you're easily predicting any opponent, and if you have the mechanics for that prediction to be relevant, then you're generally facing someone below your skill bracket. As an aside, I notice your little '3ds main' icon is ZSS, who I believe has quite the favorable MU vs Mac between her own speed, aerial tricks, and tether grab-- things like 'outspeed him' or 'grab him' are going to vary in viability by-character quite a bit. Robin has a poor speed and grab, for example, and finds the matchup relatively even, to my knowledge.

I think your 'solution' boils down to 'switch to ZSS'. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, of course-- ZSS's certainly a strong character, and my own personal answer to Mac-attacks in For Glory has often been Lucina (another counterpick). But 'just predict and keep him off stage/don't get wrecked on the ground' is about as silly as fire safety advice that amounts to 'just use water and don't catch fire'-- a bit extreme of a simplification. ^^"

 

[GeZ]

Most people don't think to frame MU's outside of their experience with their preferred character, so it's not a terminal mistake, but still something to think about.

 

[Chinaux]

You can still play ZSS against little mac and get wrecked. For example, Geizt played me yesterday in this MU, and won about three or four times out of five. MU doesn't mean that the match will be one sided, it just means that one side will have an advantage. Besides, LM's ground game is still superior to ZSS's.

 

[CharZane]

Honestly you really just need to be quicker than him and keep him off the stage. I haven't lost to a single little mac since I've done this. (for glory too, if that makes any difference)

...It's worked many times, you just need to predict him well and not let him wreck you on the ground.

You can still play ZSS against little mac and get wrecked. For example, Geizt played me yesterday in this MU, and won about three or four times out of five. MU doesn't mean that the match will be one sided, it just means that one side will have an advantage. Besides, LM's ground game is still superior to ZSS's.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make at this point. Your initial post sounded like 'the MU is one-sided', while the later directly says otherwise. It's just the implication of the former that people were finding so disagreeable, methinks. No one's arguing that ZSS is any good MU for Mac, just that dispatching him is not so simple as your dismissive tone implied if of a relatively equal skill level.

I think this thread's a deathtrap of potential miscommunications.

 

[Chinaux]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make at this point. Your initial post sounded like 'the MU is one-sided', while the later directly says otherwise. It's just the implication of the former that people were finding so disagreeable, methinks. No one's arguing that ZSS is any good MU for Mac, just that dispatching him is not so simple as your dismissive tone implied if of a relatively equal skill level.

I think this thread's a deathtrap of potential miscommunications.

Heh. I mean I got rekt by Geizt. Although I think his skill level is higher than mine. I miscommunicated. I'll try to clear things up later.

 

[Nat Goméz]

Don't be hard on him, at first he though that a one strategy way would always work with every Little Mac for what he saw in for glory, then Geizt came around and turned him into a believer. When he said that Geizt beat him with Little Mac in that MU, and that Mac's ground game is superior than ZZS's i think he was trying to say that Mac is an actual good character, that he has the tools to defense himself and win battles and that a "one way to go" strategy doesn't actually work with him when a skilled player is playing him, but you know... without saying it.

Yeap, apparently we have a couple of believer makers around here, and i personally love that! ^_^

For other references this had happend before:

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-beat-little-mac.373154/

The title of this thread is literally "How to beat Little Mac" , you can see how Ducky the believer maker came in like in the middle and how at the end you can see the creator of the thread like saying: "Yeah... this actually doesn't work with skilled Macs"

There are still dozens of people out there that think that Little Mac can be beated by a easy one way to go win, so keep on the good work guys <3

 

[CharZane]

Heh. I mean I got rekt by Geizt. Although I think his skill level is higher than mine. I miscommunicated. I'll try to clear things up later.

Don't be hard on him...

Oh by all means, just commenting on the fact that I myself ended up in such a mixup of messages only a few posts prior. ^^"

Not trying to poke fun at anything but the fact that the it's a slight trend to the topic at this point. XD

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Don't be hard on him, at first he though that a one strategy way would always work with every Little Mac for what he saw in for glory, then Geizt came around and turned him into a believer. When he said that Geizt beat him with Little Mac in that MU, and that Mac's ground game is superior than ZZS's i think he was trying to say that Mac is an actual good character, that he has the tools to defense himself and win battles and that a "one way to go" strategy doesn't actually work with him when a skilled player is playing him, but you know... without saying it.

Yeap, apparently we have a couple of believer makers around here, and i personally love that! ^_^

For other references this had happend before:

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-beat-little-mac.373154/

The title of this thread is literally "How to beat Little Mac" , you can see how Ducky the believer maker came in like in the middle and how at the end you can see the creator of the thread like saying: "Yeah... this actually doesn't work with skilled Macs"

There are still dozens of people out there that think that Little Mac can be beated by a easy one way to go win, so keep on the good work guys <3

Lmao I tried to do it here too xD

 

[Dsull]

i love how everyone is just saying "wait for an opening then punish him" when mac has virtually no lag animation on any of his moves except a wiffed KO punch (which even a bad mac can land that thing).
When he can dodge after missing a smash attack so fast you cant hit him even if youre riding his fist as he withdraws it, how can you counter him when he makes an opening? There is litterally no such thing as an opening on him except a dumb player.

That being said i still beat majority of the macs i face on for glory. i also immediately leave afterwords, whether i won or lost, because i play smash bros not punch out. His mechanics make 0 sense in a smash game and hes ungodly stressful to face, even if its a crap mac.