Little Mac Match-Up

[BBC7]

Scenario: I fight a really scrubby Little Mac and I still lose. Why? Because Game & Watch couldn't handle the damn super-armor and quick rolling, my blood boils just thinking of how terrible of a time I had. Basically, this is what I experienced. Game & Watch's grab is so damn slow that you have to predict 2 Little Mac rolls just for one grab, and that's assuming they don't get spam-happy with Smash Attacks.

I try to harass with Nair or Fair? Smash Attack.
I try to grab? Roll away and F-Smash or F-Tilt.
I try to F-Tilt? F-Smash or F-Tilt beat mine.
I try to D-Tilt? Dash Attack after ending lag.
I try to Dash Attack? Roll away and F-Smash or F-tilt.
Try to throw out a chef? The food is at an angle so Mac just Dash Attacks.
See an opening? Screw you, a counter or an U-Smash is what you see.
Getting up from the ledge via regular get-up? Grab or F-Tilt since it's safe and kills G&W early.
Getting up from the ledge via rolling? D-Smash.
Getting up via jumping? U-Smash.

Now realize how I find most of my options diminished because of Little Mac? It gets worse when he gets the KO Punch. That punch is straight out of hell, it's bad enough I'm barely allowed to hit the majority of the time, now I have to be concerned with hitting WHILE trying to avoid the KO Punch? Game & Watch rolls aren't good enough as an evasive option, I eat a KO punch everytime I roll. Same thing when I try to attack. I can't win, although I highly doubt Game & Watch has a 1:9 matchup so it's probably my fault. Any assistance?

 

[SFA Smiley]

I dunno, i'm afraid to try this matchup so i've actually never played it (except for For Glory which i never count)

All I can really think to do is Dash attack, Dash attack, Dash attack. Don't let him land. Dash attack is probably the safest thing you can do in neutral. Get the grab and get him offstage. edgeguarding Mac is obviously the easiest part.

When he has the punch, just run away. It goes away after like 15 seconds I think so just run, up-b save your jump and use it to fake out the landing (if you save your jump you can use it after up-b by throwing an attack out first). He's not gonna land it if you're playing lame, but if you get impatient he may.

Mac doesn't give GW many openings to get a hit in, because of his low cooldown and armor. Not gonna act like I know this matchup so I guess the standard Little Mac strats apply. Get him in the air (for us that means land dash attacks and grabs), get him offstage and have a field day

 

[Kofu]

If he starts spamming Jolt Haymaker, use DTilt to counter it. He'll fly over our heads and very likely die if you're close to the ledge. Good Macs will limit the use of the move, though, so don't expect to get this chance often.

I think the MU is even or very, very slightly in our favor. It's also one of the few ones that I'd use FThrow/BThrow because he's so bad in the air. Up-B is also a beautiful tool because it takes us away from him and can possibly take him in the air if he's close enough. Just be really, really patient. FTilt should beat his Dash Attack, too.

 

[Lavani]

When he has the punch, just run away. It goes away after like 15 seconds I think so just run

It actually doesn't vanish unless he gets hit after 8ish seconds. Before those 8 seconds he can't lose it.

---

I have zero G&W experience so I can't really say much about the matchup, but quoting you from another thread:

It worked because all of Mac's smashes have more reach than mine with the addition of ****ing superarmor which doesn't even let me approach from the air which is where Mac is weak.

Mac is weak in the air, but he isn't weak against aerial approaches. Usmash, up-angled fsmash, and upB are all designed to brutally punish attempts to land on Mac's face.

Also, G&W is actually tied for fastest grab in the game at frame 6, and has near identical grab range to Marth. Just putting that out there. I'm guessing you're trying to shieldgrab his smashes, which doesn't work because of the pushback on shield.

I guess my generic advice is just "Play patient, don't challenge his smash attacks, and try and get him in the air." Kind of theorycraft with vague testing in training but turnaround usmash's 4-26f head invuln could prove valuable against overaggressive Macs.

 

[TheMiSP]

Aaah, I've had an incident where I absorbed LM's fsmash with my usmash, smacked him, only to find out that I'm the one that is actually screwed.

What I do when he has KO Punch is bait it with up b and have him hit the invincibility frames. But you need explicit timing since your life is on the line.

 

[lllp3lll]

...when I try to attack. I can't win,

Try playing run away. Your offence should come from good defense.
Shield grabs, Anti-air baits (UpB>Dair)

 

[BBC7]

So basically, it's an OK match-up that simply requires a different approach? That helps, although KO Punch is still a scary force.

 

[FrameImperfect]

I play both characters, so I know about this matchup. DUCK, CROUCH, and also make sure you GET LOW. G&W can duck under Ftilt, jab1+2, Fsmash, B, and Side B in some situations. Remember that G&W has the 3rd lowest crouch in the game next to Jiggs and Kirby. Use this to your advantage by throwing out Dtilts to help widen the distance between you and Mac. Use bacon to further space Mac out, cause there's not much he can do other than roll behind you and to try not to get hit by bacon. Dash attack is always invaluable to how G&W works.

And don't forget that G&W has some of the best edgeguarding tools in the game, and Mac has the worst recovery in the game. Bair and UpB ALL DAY. Mac doesn't like our buddy Franklin or the G&W Fire Department. If Mac decides to act smart and try to counter you, you can always wait for the counter to end and then Up B To either smack him away or get back to the stage.

 

[TheMiSP]

So another character that I get to crouch troll against my friend that he plays. :D

 

[SeanS]

This matchup is in your advantage. It is quite easy to force him to air dodge / counter and suicide offstage. If this isn't apparent to you, then your problem is not with this matchup specifically.

Frankly, that's probably the case. If your nairs are getting punished with smashes, you are dtilting frequently as part of your game, you are not adjusting your dash attacks to predict rolls, you are getting countered off "openings" as you describe them, you can't recover from the ledge against a character with literally no aerial zoning potential, then you are probably not good with this character yet.

Getting him offstage isn't hard. Make liberal use of dash attack, chair, and dsmash (sourspot dsmash is literally a kill move at med-high percents on this character, by the way). Don't try to grab off his normals, but instead punish with yours.

If he is rolling a lot, use turtle (and maybe key every now and then). If you get the hit, chase and dash attack / dsmash. If at any point you are reading a smash (up-aimed fsmash is a worry, but you generally won't see that on FG scrubs like the ones you're probably describing), dodge and punish accordingly with your position; remember that the super armor wears off near the end of the attack.

Throw combos decimate this character. If you are fighting a scrub, center under him and chase after you get your nair in (or just chase at high percentages). Against a good player, you will probably see him fastfall to shield, so reset the throw combo on him as he lands as an initial and intermittment mixup.

 

[dahuterschuter]

I switch to G&W specifically to mess with Mac.

Throw offstage > bacon flip > taunt

 

[TheMiSP]

This really isn't a serious reply, but whatever.

Throw off > Wait for second jump > Fair > Taunt works as well too.