Link's Match-ups: Export #9: Snake

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Match-up #9 Snake

Link vs Snake
45:55 Snake
This really isn't that bad of a MU for Link, in fact out of all the S tiers this is his easiest. While this MU is controversial as many don't agree it's close to even, many still accept this as near even so I'll focus more on what to do in this MU.

Snake is intimidating because of his invisible hotboxes of doom that kill ridiculously early and his great camp game, fortunately Link has some things that help him face off against Snake.

First off Link out camps him, you need to utilize this as best as you can. This is because our camp game is faster and can cancel out/block his grenades. If he lays a mine use an arrow or bomb to blow it up if you have time to hit it. Pay attention to his C4 and remember where he places it, it's a good form of stage control and can kill. Keep good camping and apply pressure as good as you can. If snake tries to approach with a DACUS, do any move that hurts him and you'll knock him out of it. Zair is a good spacing tool to keep Snake out while trying to stay safe. Remember try to keep him out, while baiting him to land kill moves.

His tilts are quite aggravating, but here are some tips with facing them. Link's jab out ranges his Utilt, it's true if you space Link's jabs correctly you can jab him while staying out of Utilt range. The spacing is semi difficult but it's certainly doable. His Ftilt outranges Link's jabs, so that won't work like his Utilt however if he does Ftilt hit number 2, you can shield grab him. If he does it fast enough you could spot dodge though it, but if snake delays the hits it won't work.

Snake is going to kill earlier than Link, but not by much. He will live longer, but not by much. Link's weight and Momentum Cancel allow him to live through Ftilt and Utilt kills pretty well.

On the subject of gimping, well Snake isn't amazing at gimping, a Bair is pretty much his best option to gimp, and unless you fall to low below the stage you should be able to intercept or avoid it. Gimping Snake isn't going to happen unless he recovers low, and even then in some cases it's a free Dair, lol.

Stages, the less platforms the better, Snake has great platform control so stay away from Battlefield and stick to stages like FD.

Important posts:

When you put two of the campiest characters with tons of mindgames together, things get really interesting. Lots and lots of explosives!

Grenades and mines will be blown away/negated by the Gale boomerang's wind effect. However, thrown grenades cancel out the boomerang if they collide before the wind animation starts.

Link will be camping hard with bombs and arrows as well. Grenades cancel out arrows, and I can't remember what happens when bombs and grenades collide.

The camping game is really the largest and most important part of this matchup. If Link can outmindgame the Snake and avoid getting in range of the tilts, he's going to score the KO first; if Snake forces Link into tilt range, then Snake has pretty much guaranteed his victory.

The tilts are too scary for Link, particularly ftilt; that one builds up damage and has a knockback that Link really fears. Jab is also fairly scary, although it can be DIed and punished, or whiplashed (ftilt usually can't be whiplashed). Utilt will kill at far higher percents. A fresh utilt will kill Link around 150% (on smaller levels), and on taller levels you can expect to kill Link around 215-240% .
Ftilt and jabs are a much better killing tool. They'll kill/lead to gimps on Link at around 100-125%.

Link has slightly more trouble killing Snake, which is why this matchup is in Snake's favor. He'll kill Snake with fresh KO moves around 140-225%. Its a big KO range, but that's just how much lead Snake carries around in his pockets. Snake should always try to DI towards the corner, and if he does, he'll survive to the 225% side.

Both have edgeguarding tools against the other character; Snake's killing moves, ftilt and jabs, will naturally lead to gimps at higher percents. A Snake that is recovering high has to deal with Link's uair, dair, and boomerang, which covers most of the ways Snake can try to make it back to the stage. These moves will also lead to KOs. If a Snake is forced to recover low, he'll likely end up eating an fsmash or a boomerang, which will blow him back to the corner or force him to use his C4. If Snake has to use the C4, try to DI away from Link; he'll use dair to punish you.
C4 can be used to prevent a Link from guarding against a recovering Snake if it was placed properly before he was knocked away.

CPs can really be a determining factor in this matchup. Snake will trash Link on BF, both are fairly evenly matched on FD and SV, and Link has an advantage on RC (I know, its crazy right?). Snake: ban RC. Link: ban BF.

Really, both characters have spamming games that are well matched against each other (Snake's spamming game is way better than Link's against most other characters; only when matched against each other's spamming do they even out). However, Snake has a slightly easier time landing KO moves and has a better KO range. 55:45 Snake.

They cancel each other out resulting in a kaboom. Basically it goes;

'Nades cancel arrows,
'Nades blow up bombs,
You can say the above backwards,
Just say hi to your mom.

Yeah, I had to do that to complete the post. Hate the feeling when you just toss out 1 line facts and then it just looks like you didn't spend time on the post. :embarrass

Snake WILL be hitting Link with a bair out of upb. When that happens Link will have no double jump and will be sent too far away to come back.



Well, let's break this down quickly. I see where you're coming from about it being campy, but let's look at it this way.

-Link's camp game beats Snakes. Link has bombs, arrows, and boomerangs which make it hard for Snake to just toss 1 or 2 grenades, especially since all of Link's projectiles either beat out or clank with them. But heres the thing...

Snake doesn't need to camp against Link. If the Snake plays smart and just walks forward, shield projectiles, and ftilts OoS, it becomes much harder for Link. So although Link can camp Snake to a degree, it won't be a very campy match due to Snake's tilt game.



For the most part this is true.



I honestly can't believe you would even say this at all without a second thought. Snake's ftilt is absolutely broken. It easily outranges just about every option Link has up close except maybe zair. You obviously have no idea about Snake's ftilt range.....or range in general. Link does NOT do well up close against Snake which is why this is still Snake's favor.



Snake shouldn't be using DACUS that often mainly because Link can knock him out of it with many things, one being a simple boomerang. Like I said before Snake's best option in this match should be shielding projectiles and playing up close.



Delfino is bad for Link, and Snake does much better on Halberd than Link does. I would just go FD. BF isn't good either because it leaves Link little breathing room and coupled with nades, mines, and C4 makes it even harder for Link.



Snake would pretty much suck without those things. But Snake is definitely going to outlive you AND KO you first which is another reason why it is Snake's favor.



You won't be gimping Snake, ESPECIALLY with the gale effect. That doesn't even happen in a real match. Fsmash, dsmash, and dair are what should be used to kill.




If you DI completely upward......you will die easily. I think what you are trying to say is with Link's weight along with good DI and his momentum cancel he can live longer than most. BUT DIing upward wouldn't help because that would make you die earlier.

Snake mains:

Stop it sky', I will infract. Even if I'm not supposed to anymore. :| Seeing bull**** like this is exactly why I wanted to mod the place... places without mods turn up like this it seems.

My opinion with no reasons given, they should be obvious by both the pros and cons of each character:
60-40 Snake-Link, possibly worse or better. Never faced a top Link (read: Legan/Deva/Arkive? (he quit?))

Stages:
^Mentioned above.

We might need to redo this in the future since not everyone thinks this is near even, but for now the ratio decided on stays until a rediscussion happens.

 

[smashkng]

IMO Rainbow Cruise is Snake's favour by quite a large amount. RC actually made me have a lot easier time against Link than other stages. The stage can make his recovery extremely predictable, and give free Utilts that kill a way earlier than in other stages. And IMO it's not a bad matchup for Link, but it's not even either. In my experiments, with Best DI and MC, Snake's utilt kills at around 135% in centre of FD, soutrspot kill at around 155% with best DI/MC, both fresh.

Snake can definitely gimp Link, but not always. Link can't always grab Snake out of Cypher due the limited hitboxes it grabs aerial characters. Dairing Snake out of Cypher is very situational against good Snakes, because they'll always recover high and will not mess up with their DI and Link has short jumps. But otherwise Dairing Snake isn't difficult. And avoid getting grabbed near edges. Link has a great roll-away, but has a pretty bad get-up attack.

Overall it's 60/40 Snake, or between 55/45 and 60/40, 50/50 against a Snake who doesn't know the matchup at all. Link doesn't outcamp Snake, they're equal good at camping, depending on the situation Snake outcamps Link, and viceversa. Link's projectiles are not a real problem, but Zair can be quite annoying for Snake. What turns the side are that Snake's moveset is a lot less sluggish, meaning he is not as punishable on miss as Link is.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I'm going to have to disagree.

My opinion on the matchup:

Link's advantages:
--Z-air is an amazing tool against Snake. It totally ***** any attempts at a reverse aerial rush, medium distance grenade camping, and, often times, recovering.
--Bombs can explode grounded grenades.
--Landmines are easy to clear with arrows, bombs, and arrows.
--Snake has trouble getting a horizontal trajectory.

Snakes advantages:
--DACUS can be a ridiculous technique to defend against.
--He survives forever.
--His grab game is always an issue.
--Link's short jumps leave him more vulnerable to C4.
--If he gets in close, Link won't be able to stop him easily.
--I'm pretty sure Snake's aerials outrange Link's (with the exception of Z-air).
--Snake's recovery won't be easy to gimp.
--Snake can zone like no one's business.
--He camps just as well as, if not better than, Link.
--Encountering grenades, landmines, or C4 can interrupt locks.

I'd put this at 70:30 in Snake's favor.

Snake shuts down most of Link's useful tactics (zoning, camping, psuedo combos, locks, etc...), and he has better survival, damaging moves, and killing moves than Link.

While I do enjoy the matchup, I wouldn't call it even by any means.

 

[smashkng]

It's not 70/30 Snake because Link can deal with Snake's camping and sometimes even outcamp Snake (just like Snake can sometimes also outcamp Link), but it's Snake's favour, 60/40 Snake. Neither even not ****. Because it isn't seriously. Snake may outrange Link in the air, but he's so sluggish there (like Ike has amazing disjointed range, but he's too slow to completely keep away opponents). But still, Link's air game isn't that good either. And seriously, Link lives very long (not as long as Snake but still lives long), especially with proper DI, which is a basic for a Link mainer. IMO Link's greatest weakness vs Snake isn't having a bad recovery (Snake can gimp Link, but not as easily as for example DDD), but being so sluggish.

Do NOT underrate this matchup, because Link can **** Snake if Snake doesn't know the matchup.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's either 55:45/40:60 Snake, your pick really. I've heard so many mixed feelings on this that I listed what was agreed upon at the time.

I got more experience in this MU when I got to play Ally and other good Snake mains with Link, even though Ally 3 stocked quite a few times lol.