Link's Advanced Techniques (Jab Canceling & Holding a Bomb While F-smashing/F-tilting Removed)

[Elessar]

Ok, can we get a good quality video explaining this new tech in detail? The posts you have all made, while informative, are not new user friendly per se. We need something easier to understand with visual aid if we want this AT to catch on.

Also, @ DarkDeity15 , for the love of God take those GIFs out and insert decent pictures that represent this is a serious thread. Try PMing Zelkam for help if he's free. Thanks.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok, new user friendly explanation coming up. I'm going to have to leave certain details out and a few things will have to be generally correct in such a way that you'd never know the difference as I will be trying to avoid saying things that are unnecessarily overcomplicated yet technically absolutely correct. It's going to be dull as hell, but you asked for it. (ho ho ho)

I'm going to call it collectively (for now) Close Quarters Combat (CQC) Z-dropping. There are two distinct and separate ways of performing it, each with their own pros and cons (which are admittedly minor).

How to Perform 1: It's essentially just the Instant Z-drop. Like that's it. Nothing new here. But being new user friendly.... Pull out a bomb, get right up close to the opponent and face them, hit the jump button and then as your character is leaving the ground hit the grab button while your joystick is in neutral. To be precise, you hit the grab button as Link is leaving his jump-squat animation but just before his feet leave the ground, but you won't notice this in real time. If you hit the grab button too early Link will cancel his jump animation and throw the bomb forwards from the ground. If you hit the grab button too late Link will jump, drop the bomb and Zair. If your timing is perfect Link will jump and drop the bomb without Zair coming out. Because you were close to the opponent the dropped bomb will be dropped inside them and immediately explode if they weren't shielding. You are then free to hit them with an aerial or footstool them etc. If you are fast enough, it is in fact possible to re-catch the bomb as it is exploding (known as the 'phoenix bomb'), but don't worry about that for now. If the opponent was shielding when you dropped the bomb they will be able to act immediately but because dropping the bomb is lagless you are technically able to act ever so slightly before them so you can feel free to airdodge if necessary or use an aerial before their move comes out. Also, if they were shielding, the bomb will bounce off their shield and for some unexplainable reason it will still hit them on the way back down and while bouncing on the ground even though it wasn't powershielded.

How to Perform 2. This is basically just a very well timed Z-drop close to the ground, but as before... Pull out a bomb, jump, move Link in the air so that he will land very close to the opponent while facing them, then just before you land, at the very last possible moment, make sure the joystick is in neutral, hit the grab button and immediately let go of the grab button (immediately letting go of the grab button is optional and is simply to make sure you don't shield as soon as you land). If you hit the grab button too early Link will drop the bomb and experience some landing lag such that he cannot act immediately. If you hit the grab button too late, Link will land and throw the bomb forward. If you time it perfectly, Link will drop the bomb on the ground and experience no landing lag and will be able to do anything immediately. Because you landed close to the opponent while facing them, the Bomb will immediately explode if they weren't shielding, and because you landed without any lag this allows you to follow up with whatever you feel like. If they shield the bomb they will be able to act immediately and technically you will be able to act at the same time meaning you will still be able to avoid any option they take by taking evasive manoeuvres or throwing out an attack before they can. Also, if they do shield, the bomb will bounce off their shield and will not hurt them on the way down or while bouncing on the ground.


I guess that'll do. Do you really need a video?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Ok, new user friendly explanation coming up. I'm going to have to leave certain details out and a few things will have to be generally correct in such a way that you'd never know the difference as I will be trying to avoid saying things that are unnecessarily overcomplicated yet technically absolutely correct. It's going to be dull as hell, but you asked for it. (ho ho ho)

I'm going to call it collectively (for now) Close Quarters Combat (CQC) Z-dropping. There are two distinct and separate ways of performing it, each with their own pros and cons (which are admittedly minor).

How to Perform 1: It's essentially just the Instant Z-drop. Like that's it. Nothing new here. But being new user friendly.... Pull out a bomb, get right up close to the opponent and face them, hit the jump button and then as your character is leaving the ground hit the grab button while your joystick is in neutral. To be precise, you hit the grab button as Link is leaving his jump-squat animation but just before his feet leave the ground, but you won't notice this in real time. If you hit the grab button too early Link will cancel his jump animation and throw the bomb forwards from the ground. If you hit the grab button too late Link will jump, drop the bomb and Zair. If your timing is perfect Link will jump and drop the bomb without Zair coming out. Because you were close to the opponent the dropped bomb will be dropped inside them and immediately explode if they weren't shielding. You are then free to hit them with an aerial or footstool them etc. If you are fast enough, it is in fact possible to re-catch the bomb as it is exploding (known as the 'phoenix bomb'), but don't worry about that for now. If the opponent was shielding when you dropped the bomb they will be able to act immediately but because dropping the bomb is lagless you are technically able to act ever so slightly before them so you can feel free to airdodge if necessary or use an aerial before their move comes out. Also, if they were shielding, the bomb will bounce off their shield and for some unexplainable reason it will still hit them on the way back down and while bouncing on the ground even though it wasn't powershielded.

How to Perform 2. This is basically just a very well timed Z-drop close to the ground, but as before... Pull out a bomb, jump, move Link in the air so that he will land very close to the opponent while facing them, then just before you land, at the very last possible moment, make sure the joystick is in neutral, hit the grab button and immediately let go of the grab button (immediately letting go of the grab button is optional and is simply to make sure you don't shield as soon as you land). If you hit the grab button too early Link will drop the bomb and experience some landing lag such that he cannot act immediately. If you hit the grab button too late, Link will land and throw the bomb forward. If you time it perfectly, Link will drop the bomb on the ground and experience no landing lag and will be able to do anything immediately. Because you landed close to the opponent while facing them, the Bomb will immediately explode if they weren't shielding, and because you landed without any lag this allows you to follow up with whatever you feel like. If they shield the bomb they will be able to act immediately and technically you will be able to act at the same time meaning you will still be able to avoid any option they take by taking evasive manoeuvres or throwing out an attack before they can. Also, if they do shield, the bomb will bounce off their shield and will not hurt them on the way down or while bouncing on the ground.


I guess that'll do. Do you really need a video?

This is all great. I'll definitely add this to the OP some time today. I also plan to record mini-vids for any ATs that are complicated to explain. This would cut down on the effort I'd have to put into one giant AT vid otherwise, and would simplify things quite a bit. As for the gifs, they were just for the lolz. XD

I'll change them to something more tasteful as soon I get home from school.

 

[Elessar]

Ok, new user friendly explanation coming up. I'm going to have to leave certain details out and a few things will have to be generally correct in such a way that you'd never know the difference as I will be trying to avoid saying things that are unnecessarily overcomplicated yet technically absolutely correct. It's going to be dull as hell, but you asked for it. (ho ho ho)

I'm going to call it collectively (for now) Close Quarters Combat (CQC) Z-dropping. There are two distinct and separate ways of performing it, each with their own pros and cons (which are admittedly minor).

How to Perform 1: It's essentially just the Instant Z-drop. Like that's it. Nothing new here. But being new user friendly.... Pull out a bomb, get right up close to the opponent and face them, hit the jump button and then as your character is leaving the ground hit the grab button while your joystick is in neutral. To be precise, you hit the grab button as Link is leaving his jump-squat animation but just before his feet leave the ground, but you won't notice this in real time. If you hit the grab button too early Link will cancel his jump animation and throw the bomb forwards from the ground. If you hit the grab button too late Link will jump, drop the bomb and Zair. If your timing is perfect Link will jump and drop the bomb without Zair coming out. Because you were close to the opponent the dropped bomb will be dropped inside them and immediately explode if they weren't shielding. You are then free to hit them with an aerial or footstool them etc. If you are fast enough, it is in fact possible to re-catch the bomb as it is exploding (known as the 'phoenix bomb'), but don't worry about that for now. If the opponent was shielding when you dropped the bomb they will be able to act immediately but because dropping the bomb is lagless you are technically able to act ever so slightly before them so you can feel free to airdodge if necessary or use an aerial before their move comes out. Also, if they were shielding, the bomb will bounce off their shield and for some unexplainable reason it will still hit them on the way back down and while bouncing on the ground even though it wasn't powershielded.

How to Perform 2. This is basically just a very well timed Z-drop close to the ground, but as before... Pull out a bomb, jump, move Link in the air so that he will land very close to the opponent while facing them, then just before you land, at the very last possible moment, make sure the joystick is in neutral, hit the grab button and immediately let go of the grab button (immediately letting go of the grab button is optional and is simply to make sure you don't shield as soon as you land). If you hit the grab button too early Link will drop the bomb and experience some landing lag such that he cannot act immediately. If you hit the grab button too late, Link will land and throw the bomb forward. If you time it perfectly, Link will drop the bomb on the ground and experience no landing lag and will be able to do anything immediately. Because you landed close to the opponent while facing them, the Bomb will immediately explode if they weren't shielding, and because you landed without any lag this allows you to follow up with whatever you feel like. If they shield the bomb they will be able to act immediately and technically you will be able to act at the same time meaning you will still be able to avoid any option they take by taking evasive manoeuvres or throwing out an attack before they can. Also, if they do shield, the bomb will bounce off their shield and will not hurt them on the way down or while bouncing on the ground.


I guess that'll do. Do you really need a video?

I don't, but some people might. Let's try to make this AT thread as scrub, dumb, and child proof as possible so that anyone can read and understand and learn from it.

In fact, taking a page from what @ DarkDeity15 said, besides having a massive guide video we can also have small, individual AT guide video, such as one only for bombslide (like Sook's) or another only for CQC Zdrop. This will help understanding a lot more.

If we want more decent representation in tournaments, we need to make all the info as accessible and underdstandable as possible.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I certainly agree with the sentiment that an AT guide should be as accessible as possible. I'm just not confident in videos being able to teach better than a well fleshed out explanation; or rather, they won't be able to make up for certain faults in a poor explanation. There are so many things that can't really be shown and that simply need to be said. Like the slight differences in timing; you won't really be able to see that, but if you are told about it precisely and know about it, then you are able to make adjustments accordingly when you are labbing. Over the years I've managed to explain the most difficult and technical things all without the need for videos. What is needed is an inner intuitive structure, a careful choice of words with an aim towards precision, and the personal experience required to be comprehensive.

 

[Sabaca]

I know it is incomplete but the current description of bomb sliding is already wrong and uncomprehensive due to very poor structure.

Bombslide/DACIT:

The Bombslide in Smash4 is an Technique that makes you able to cancel the dash item toss into an up item toss in order to slide, increasing combo potential and safeness. Similar to this is the bombslide/DACIT in Brawl though it works a little different in this game due to changes for Links Item toss animations and the c-stick.

Spoiler: Inputs with Tiltstick

full dash -> c-stick in any direction+ controllstick up -> grab/attack
If you Dash toss , you pressed grab/attack before controllstickup or controllstick up / grab/attack way too late.
If you do a normal toss in the direction of your c-stick you were still in the initial dash.
If you slow down and normal toss it in the direction of your c-stick , you pressed your controllstick up way earlier than the c-stick wich is false.
If you slow down but still do a bomb slide (wich can also be used in your favour), you have to press controllstick up later.

Spoiler: Inputs with Smashstick

full dash -> grab/attack -> c-stick up
If you do a smash toss forward , you were still in initial dash when pressing grab/attack
If you an smash toss upwards , you pressed c-stick up before grab/attack.
If you do an dash toss ( most likely followed up with an upsmash) you press c-stick up way too late.
In order to slow down before the bombslide you can let go the controllstick shortly before you input grab/attack -> c-stick up

In order to toss it up , you have to do it almost simultaneously.
If you delay the uptoss a little the bomb will be tossed forward while doing an uptoss animation wich is called fakeout. The longer your delay the shorter your slide.
Link does that because he has already dash tossed the bomb but you are still able to cancel it in order to keep the momentum. You have no bomb anymore so the fakeout happens. The momentum of the dash toss depletes over time , so the delay has to be as small as possible.
___________________________
There are also more ways of doing the bombslide, wich allow you to change the fakeout animation(since Link can't DACIT in all directions like Ike can unfortunately) , and more technical details , However they aren't necessary to perform the bombslide and don't have any benefits in Game so it is unnecassary information(for players that simply want to use it) that only makes it less comprehensive. Thought it should definitely be added sooner or later for the sake of having complete information of everything in this thread.

I wrote this down immidietly because i wanted to link someone this thread. However when i read the bomb slide spoiler I was shocked.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I know it is incomplete but the current description of bomb sliding is already wrong and uncomprehensive due to very poor structure.

Bombslide:

The Bombslide in Smash4 is an Technique where you cancel the dash item toss into an up item toss in order to slide, increasing combo potential and safeness

Spoiler: Inputs with Tiltstick

full dash -> c-stick in any direction+ controllstick up -> grab/attack
If you Dash toss , you pressed grab/attack before controllstickup or controllstick up / grab/attack way too late.
If you do a normal toss in the direction of your c-stick you were still in the initial dash.
If you slow down and normal toss it in the direction of your c-stick , you pressed your controllstick up way earlier than the c-stick wich is false.
If you slow down but still do a bomb slide (wich can also be used in your favour), you have to press controllstick up later.

Spoiler: Inputs with Smashstick

full dash -> grab/attack -> c-stick up
If you do a smash toss forward , you were still in initial dash when pressing grab/attack
If you an smash toss upwards , you pressed c-stick up before grab/attack.
If you do an dash toss ( most likely followed up with an upsmash) you press c-stick up way too late.
In order to slow down before the bombslide you can let go the controllstick shortly before you input grab/attack -> c-stick up

In order to toss it up , you have to do it almost simultaneously.
If you delay the uptoss a little the bomb will be tossed forward while doing an uptoss animation wich is called fakeout. The longer your delay the shorter your slide.
___________________________
There are also more ways of doing the bombslide, wich allow you to change the fakeout , and more technical details , However they aren't necessary to perform the bombslide and don't have any benefits in Game so it is unnecassary information(for players that simply want to use it) that only makes it less comprehensive. Thought it should definitely be added sooner or later for the sake of having complete information of everything in this thread.

I wrote this down immidietly because i wanted to link someone this thread. However when i read the bomb slide spoiler I was shocked.

While this is certainly a better explanation than the one in the OP atm, it's not without flaws of it's own. Because 'technically correct' is the only permissible kind of correct when it comes to this sort of thing.

This is doing my head in. I can't keep correcting mistakes here and in the future from people who came here. I'm going to have to seriously think about the future of this thread. It would be irresponsible as a moderator to overlook problems such as the spread of misinformation.

 

[Sabaca]

EDIT: irrelevant , it was wrong.

 

[Dumbfire]

Just a note on spoilers:

Spoiler

If you leave a space you'll get that blank ^

Spoiler

Type next to the spoiler tag, so you don't have it.

 

[DarkDeity15]

My explanation on bombsliding wasn't wrong lol. It was just incomplete. Didn't you guys read what came after it? Whatevz. I've removed it so that I can complete it later.

Edit: I've got some potential news for you guys. Link CAN use his jab to lock characters in their "ground bounce" animation. So Brawl-style Jab locks are in fact in Sm4sh. I have no actual idea how it worked, but it looks like you can only use the outer most hitbox of the first jab (and by that I mean REALLY out there, so this might be impractical). It was on a high % Ganon last I remember. Discovered this while hitting the lab. Has this already been known about? Stale moves might be involved, though this had occurred in training mode which I had heard didn't have stale moves.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Mah b, double post.

 

[Elessar]

Why did you decide to edit out the content of your post? Did you then find out that you actually can't do that?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Huh? Thought that's what you were supposed to do. Ah well. Learned from that mistake.

 

[Sabaca]

Elessar probably meant my Post. To Answer it shortly , yes.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Changes will be made corresponding to the update along with some additional fixes sometime soon.