Data Link Hitboxes and Frame Data

Bravo_10

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#41
I'm not going to pretend I'm positive, but since Link's late nair above has 9 frames of shieldstun and 4 of shield hitlag, if we managed to space the very late frames of nair [frames 33-39] so that we landed the very next frame, wouldn't nair be +1 on shield at perfect spacing because you'd have 4 frames of landing lag and 5 frames of shieldstun? I'm not saying this is particularly useful but it does leave me curious if there's some way to apply this if my math is correct...
That would be +1 on shield, yes. But think of how difficult it would be to perform. You would need to connect with a late-hit nair on the frame before you land, meaning you would essentially have to frame-perfectly drift sideways into someone's shield.

That said, small amounts of +/- on shield with Link don't necessarily matter. Spot dodge is invincible starting on frame 2, so even if you land a move that's -1 like a strong L-cancelled nair, you can still buffer a spot dodge before Fox could shine you out of shield. This won't work every time obviously, but it's a neat little frame trap that can let you punish characters going for what seems like an easy shield grab.

And let's not forget platform-cancelled nairs. Strong nair is -1, but a frame-perfect platform drop nair takes just 5 frames to come out. This means that repeatedly platform-canceling nairs on somebody's shield is impossible to punish with a grab (plus I think it's possible to space outside of faster OoS options because Link's feet are huge). This would be like... hugely difficult to do. But Abate does it with Luigi, so I bet somebody could make the same thing work with Link.

(Edited to fix my backwards use of plusses and minuses.)
 
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Thor

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#42
That would be +1 on shield, yes. But think of how difficult it would be to perform. You would need to connect with a late-hit nair on the frame before you land, meaning you would essentially have to frame-perfectly drift sideways into someone's shield.

That said, small amounts of +/- on shield with Link don't necessarily matter. Spot dodge is invincible starting on frame 2, so even if you land a move that's +1 like a strong L-cancelled nair, you can still buffer a spot dodge before Fox could shine you out of shield. This won't work every time obviously, but it's a neat little frame trap that can let you punish characters going for what seems like an easy shield grab.

And let's not forget platform-cancelled nairs. Strong nair is +1, but a frame-perfect platform drop nair takes just 5 frames to come out. This means that repeatedly platform-canceling nairs on somebody's shield is impossible to punish with a grab (plus I think it's possible to space outside of faster OoS options because Link's feet are huge). This would be like... hugely difficult to do. But Abate does it with Luigi, so I bet somebody could make the same thing work with Link.
Shine out of shield is 4 frames, because there's 3 frames of jumpsquat and shine is frame 1 [unlike with up+b and usmash, you don't actually jump cancel the shine, but rather simply do it once you've left the ground], but I'll keep it in mind. Also I think strong nair is -1 and you typo'd but whatever.
 
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Darklink401

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#43
This actually helps a lot, I had no idea Link's nair was THAT good xD

Since you can fullhop nair then nair again before you hit the ground, and because it's so active, nair can combo into itself

That's scary~

EDIT:

Also, from under the side platforms of BF, fulljump nair will have no landing lag once you land on the platform :3 it's probs been known, but I found it interesting.
 
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Thor

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#44
This actually helps a lot, I had no idea Link's nair was THAT good xD

Since you can fullhop nair then nair again before you hit the ground, and because it's so active, nair can combo into itself

That's scary~

EDIT:

Also, from under the side platforms of BF, fulljump nair will have no landing lag once you land on the platform :3 it's probs been known, but I found it interesting.
Here's something else you should find interesting then: from the top platform of any legal triple platform stage [so not Pokémon Stadium or FD], fullhop down air has no landing lag either. The hitbox is out all the way down [or very close to it], but the move autocancels and you have no landing lag, as long as you do the dair quickly enough and don't fastfall at all.

You may have already known this, but against unsuspecting players it's a gimmicky way to get back down. It's also somewhat threatening mixed in with the possibility to ledge cancel it and then do another aerial, a double jump, or something else, although I'll admit its utility against people used to fighting Link is greatly diminished.
 

Darklink401

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#45
Here's something else you should find interesting then: from the top platform of any legal triple platform stage [so not Pokémon Stadium or FD], fullhop down air has no landing lag either. The hitbox is out all the way down [or very close to it], but the move autocancels and you have no landing lag, as long as you do the dair quickly enough and don't fastfall at all.

You may have already known this, but against unsuspecting players it's a gimmicky way to get back down. It's also somewhat threatening mixed in with the possibility to ledge cancel it and then do another aerial, a double jump, or something else, although I'll admit its utility against people used to fighting Link is greatly diminished.
I wonder who even is used to fighting Link these days xD

But wow, that IS interesting, indeed. Out of curiosity, does it work for upair as well or just dair?
 

Thor

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#46
I wonder who even is used to fighting Link these days xD

But wow, that IS interesting, indeed. Out of curiosity, does it work for upair as well or just dair?
Well, Kage for one... he and SAUS are from the same region and have multiple sets on Youtube.

The ability to fullhop aerial and autocancel/finish the aerial from any top platform works with any aerial Link has (as dair autocancel is frame 65 or later, and other aerials autocancel more quickly), so yes uair will end/autocancel, but the hitbox will have ended well before you hit the ground.
 

Thor

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#47
I suppose this is technically a double post but I want to make sure I correctly tag standardtoaster standardtoaster to ask.

Nair is listed as "Auto cancel: <3 32>"

Does this mean nair autocancels frames 1-2 and frames 33-39 [the end of the move], or does it mean nair autocancels frames 1-3 and frames 32-39?

I want to make sure I'm reading the data correctly, and I appreciate clarification.
 
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#48
I suppose this is technically a double post but I want to make sure I correctly tag standardtoaster standardtoaster to ask.

Nair is listed as "Auto cancel: <3 32>"

Does this mean nair autocancels frames 1-2 and frames 33-39 [the end of the move], or does it mean nair autocancels frames 1-3 and frames 32-39?

I want to make sure I'm reading the data correctly, and I appreciate clarification.
Really late answer but I've always taken it to mean less than 3 and greater than 32.

However I recently discovered the number given is included in the AC windows, so it's 1-3 and 32-39.

From a math and programming POV, the nomenclature used in the hitbox threads is confusing. I would probably have chosen to use something like....

4 > AC > 31

That would align with fundamental mathematics symbolism
 
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spiffo

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#50
Would anyone be interested in compiling images like of the hitboxes, but for the ECBs? I'll take a stab at it, but I'm not promising Quality content as Debug Mode is not one of my specialties.
 
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