Less Aggression, More Camping?

[ptrk83]

Is that the Pac meta playstyle? Abadango is leading the way here at Apex using this style.

 

[dragontamer]

I can agree to that.

The thing about PacMan is while he has good normals, he doesn't have _outstanding_ normals. So you wanna force your opponent into a situation where your normals get an advantage.

A strong camp game that occasionally pushes aggression is always nice of course, but there's basically no reason to NOT drop down another hydrant. PacMan can keep converting time into an advantage (hydrant, trampoline, and charging fruit). So you always can gain advantage by solidifying your camp.

 

[revengeska]

Abadango is doing awesome and gives us all something to aspire to. But if you look at Koolaid's videos, he seems to play a little more aggressive, rush down type of style and made top 32 at Apex. Abadango seems a little weak when characters stay in his face, and he's masked the weakness by being able to get away and create good separation.

It looks to me like it's important to have strategies for three situations: distance scenarios, neutral/midrange, and close quarters. I think Pacman can excel in all three, but they all require different play styles and need different traps and setups. Abadango is my model for the first two, Koolaid is my model for the last. I plan on centering my Pacman training around these three situations.

Edit: Top 64 it looks like. The bracket I was looking at at the time looked like top 32, so it was either misleading or wrong. But the final results have him like 49th or something.

 

[Firedemon0]

It all comes down to spacing, Pac-man has less safe attacks on shield then other characters. Kool leaning toward the agressive side of things, Adabango the other. Either way, you can see how they try to avoid unsafe situations, which pac-man allows with his moveset. Hydrant is an extra dodge, or pressure, trampoline the same thing. If we stay out of grab range, we can win pretty easily it seems. How aggressive also depends on the match up in my opinion.

 

[BSP]

I've been saying this since day 2.

 

[ptrk83]

Abadango is doing awesome and gives us all something to aspire to. But if you look at Koolaid's videos, he seems to play a little more aggressive, rush down type of style and made top 32 at Apex. Abadango seems a little weak when characters stay in his face, and he's masked the weakness by being able to get away and create good separation.

It looks to me like it's important to have strategies for three situations: distance scenarios, neutral/midrange, and close quarters. I think Pacman can excel in all three, but they all require different play styles and need different traps and setups. Abadango is my model for the first two, Koolaid is my model for the last. I plan on centering my Pacman training around these three situations.

But what has Koolaid done really? (No disrespect, he is a great player) The only successful Pac seems to camp the whole time and just wait patiently for openings..Aba also NEVER attempts to throw.. smart.. so smart... lol... i loath that grab.

 

[Firedemon0]

But what has Koolaid done really? (No disrespect, he is a great player) The only successful Pac seems to camp the whole time and just wait patiently for openings..Aba also NEVER attempts to throw.. smart.. so smart... lol... i loath that grab.

Well that again related to attacks on shield, because you can't really counter someone sitting in shield outside of trampoline. Abadango was still is able to apply pressure though, just watch the ninjalink fight again. He forced Ninjalink out of his spacing options and was able to be more aggressive. Palentuna was an aggressive fight as well, though that zdrop reflector SD was hilarious.

 

[ptrk83]

I know I was cracking up!

 

[revengeska]

But what has Koolaid done really? (No disrespect, he is a great player) The only successful Pac seems to camp the whole time and just wait patiently for openings..Aba also NEVER attempts to throw.. smart.. so smart... lol... i loath that grab.

You don't call top 32 at Apex successful?

 

[Nu~]

Yeah, we should definitely strengthen our camp game, but don't forget that we should still use our versatility to switch to offensive when needed. Like in the megaman match up. Megaman struggles a lot more than we do once someone is in his face.

 

[BSP]

Yes, there are exceptions, but I still think camping is Pac-Man's greatest strength.

I didn't get to watch Abadango's matches, but I'm guessing he camped more than he rushed down.

 

[Pacack]

I'd argue that what Abadango was doing was not camping, per se. He forced opponents into situations that he could benefit from, but he played a somewhat rushdown/reactively aggressive style from there.

Title is spelled wrong, btw. *Aggression

 

[Nu~]

I'd argue that what Abadango was doing was not camping, per se. He forced opponents into situations that he could benefit from, but he played a somewhat rushdown/reactively aggressive style from there.

Title is spelled wrong, btw. *Aggression

Exactly. Because pacman isn't really a pure campy character like duck hunt. The fruit give pacman a LOT of reward on hit for big follow ups and traps. Even big combos that deal massive damage (the galaxian combos are just too amazing)
The fruit are some of the the best projectiles in the game due to their versatility and massive reward on hit.

 

[Kool Aid]

pretty sure if aba had my pool he wouldn't have gotten out either.

Look deeper than the results please. The pools weren't seeding properly.

 

[BSP]

pretty sure if aba had my pool he wouldn't have gotten out either.

Look deeper than the results please. The pools weren't seeding properly.

Don't know about the first part. Regardless, congratulations on your performance. Top 32 at a tournament as stacked as Apex is no joke.

 

[Po3T]

I don't really see Pac-man as a "Campy" character. Besides the Key, her really doesn't have the keep away moveset. An opportunistic character is more like it.

 

[Jay-kun]

I don't really see Pac-man as a "Campy" character. Besides the Key, her really doesn't have the keep away moveset. An opportunistic character is more like it.

I actually wish he was more campy. (probably would be if his hydrant was stationary and disappeared in 30 seconds or so.

 

[Po3T]

I actually wish he was more campy. (probably would be if his hydrant was stationary and disappeared in 30 seconds or so.

Totally agree.

 

[busken]

By applying each move to maximize it's viability we can develop a play style that is best suited for Pac-Man. We should work on how we can effectively play the neutral, zone, space, combo, and utilize projectiles to gain the advantage. In order achieve this, I think a community general move set guide should be made. Questions we should ask ourselves could be: Can this move zone well? It is a good OOS? Can it combo? When should we use it? Can it kill? What specific niche does it have over x? Can it bait a reaction; set traps? Overall utility and viability?

Example: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-pit-community-general-guide-u-smash-discussion.380418/

 

[Jay-kun]

By applying each move to maximize it's viability we can develop a play style that is best suited for Pac-Man. We should work on how we can effectively play the neutral, zone, space, combo, and utilize projectiles to gain the advantage. In order achieve this, I think a community general move set guide should be made. Questions we should ask ourselves could be: Can this move zone well? It is a good OOS? Can it combo? When should we use it? Can it kill? What specific niche does it have over x? Can it bait a reaction; set traps? Overall utility and viability?

Example: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-pit-community-general-guide-u-smash-discussion.380418/

Shall we start with hydrant?
So this is obviously our best spacing tool correct?

 

[dragontamer]

By applying each move to maximize it's viability we can develop a play style that is best suited for Pac-Man. We should work on how we can effectively play the neutral, zone, space, combo, and utilize projectiles to gain the advantage. In order achieve this, I think a community general move set guide should be made. Questions we should ask ourselves could be: Can this move zone well? It is a good OOS? Can it combo? When should we use it? Can it kill? What specific niche does it have over x? Can it bait a reaction; set traps? Overall utility and viability?

Example: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-pit-community-general-guide-u-smash-discussion.380418/

I've had some thoughts on how to do this... but it takes a lot of work. I've been trying to figure out a way to organize a discussion so that a guide like that can be built, but we still would need someone in charge of the project who'd be willing to organize / edit the main guide as the discussion progresses.

 

[Pacack]

This discussion has become notable enough; could we please fix the typo in the title to make us come across as a little more professional? You'd hardly think that legitimate discussion was going on here with the title.

 

[Spirst]

This discussion has become notable enough; could we please fix the typo in the title to make us come across as a little more professional? You'd hardly think that legitimate discussion was going on here with the title.

Consider it done.

 

[Pacack]

Consider it done.

Thank you kindly, sir.

 

[Jay-kun]

How about: having a guide/opening in the front like our http://smashboards.com/threads/pac-mans-amazing-full-colour-fan-club-pac-man-general-thread.324354/ thread, our http://smashboards.com/threads/pacmans-m-ms-metagame-and-match-up-discussion-thread.370926/ thread or our http://smashboards.com/threads/vide...bles-soon-2-13-15.373048/page-6#post-18519493 thread. Right now, were just a jumble of concepts. Actually, I would prefer this in ALL threads, since a newcomer wouldn't have time to read through ALL those pages. If we could take the important information and put it into our opening, new Pac mains would like it and we would be more organized. (We will need to use spoilers a lot)

 

[Funkermonster]

Exactly. Because pacman isn't really a pure campy character like duck hunt. The fruit give pacman a LOT of reward on hit for big follow ups and traps. Even big combos that deal massive damage (the galaxian combos are just too amazing)
The fruit are some of the the best projectiles in the game due to their versatility and massive reward on hit.

Duck Hunt is not a campy character either, what u talkin about ? He's more of a pressure and trap character who racks up damage insanely fast, he prefers to use his projectiles to exploit openings and frustrate people than to keep opponents at bay (something Pac-Man's great at too). He's not even that good at camping, considering how slow and awkward his projectiles are.

Just sayin.

 

[Revibe]

I think Pac-Man's playstyle is ... well when i say effortless, i mean less effort into controlling the match up. I know he isn't the fastest with his smashes or his shield or even his grab, but I think that they are exactly the right amount of time for Pac. (turtle beats the hair kinda logic to follow

I recommend walking instead of running, or even just standing still more and letting the hydrant do most of your distant travels. I feel like he can get big combo's with more focus rather than hitting as fast as you can. If you need to hurry, it is just to let your opponent chase you down, but keep the right amount of space so that they can't touch you, punish when ready.