hyperstation
Smash Lord
I'm sorry in advanced that I won't be able to make a legitimately informative OP.
I got the idea for this thread yesterday when I was in a long series of WiFi matches, during which I realized that arguably the weakest part of my game is the part that occurs between a Ledgegrab and getting onto the stage again. My hope is that we could start an exhaustive, in depth discussion of every possibility that can occur between the ledge and the stage.
I don't intend for this thread to outstay its welcome. I hope to organize all the intel collected herein into the OP, and upon exhausting the list, it could be copied to Swoops' guide or Gleam's list, or whatever; the thread is just a means to an end. So on that note, let's get our hands dirty.
Basic Ledge-to-Stage Options (those which require the press of a button to initiate):
Jump -> Attack Options (those which are a combination of a jump and an aerial):
Stage Scarring (hitting your opponent from below a stage, through the stage):
On RCO Lag:
I started the list with what I believe are the options that I believe to be most obvious and least necessary of description. With the exception of Jump -> Aerial Gerudo and Jump -> Airdodge -> Flight of Ganon - which both require a slightly more refined sense of timing than the others - these are the options which are most readily available and most easily executed.
But really, these weren't the reason I made this topic. I hope to engage in a meta-level discussion about not only "what are the options between the ledge and the stage?" but also "how do we use them?", "what conditions make option A better than option B?", "what are your most reliable techniques?", etc. etc. etc.
For starters, some of the things I personally need clarification on are all of the Ledgedrop -> Aerial onto the stage options. So hook me up, guys. I'm in dire need of assistance with this aspect of the game, and it became painfully obvious the other day vs. Salty Kracka who punished me time and time again on my get up techniques (more a factor of his excellent spacing than my sh*tty ledge game, but the point bears repeating).
I got the idea for this thread yesterday when I was in a long series of WiFi matches, during which I realized that arguably the weakest part of my game is the part that occurs between a Ledgegrab and getting onto the stage again. My hope is that we could start an exhaustive, in depth discussion of every possibility that can occur between the ledge and the stage.
I don't intend for this thread to outstay its welcome. I hope to organize all the intel collected herein into the OP, and upon exhausting the list, it could be copied to Swoops' guide or Gleam's list, or whatever; the thread is just a means to an end. So on that note, let's get our hands dirty.
Basic Ledge-to-Stage Options (those which require the press of a button to initiate):
- Get-up attack (A, B, C-stick) - <100% = Quick, large-ranged punch, >100% = Slower, smaller ranged kick
- Just stand up (Forward on control stick)
- Roll (R, L, Z)
- Jump (Up on control stick, Y, X)
Jump -> Attack Options (those which are a combination of a jump and an aerial):
- Jump -> Aerial Gerudo (Y -> Forward+B) - Practice the timing so your Gerudo almost immediate
- Jump -> Wizard Kick (Y -> Down+B)
- Jump -> Rising UAir (Jump -> Up+A)
- Jump -> Rising Fair (Jump -> Forward+A)
- Jump -> Nair (Y -> A)
- Jump -> Dair (Y -> Down+A)
- Jump -> Bair (Jump -> Back+A, while moving inside/behind your opponent)
- Jump -> Flight of Ganon (Jump -> Airdodge -> Buffer a ISJR Jump and Down + B at the same time)
Stage Scarring (hitting your opponent from below a stage, through the stage):
- Down Ledgedrop -> Rising UAir -> Ledgegrab
- Down Ledgedrop -> Up+B -> Ledgegrab
- Down Ledgedrop -> Rising NAir -> Ledgegrab
- Note: One can opt for a Back Ledgedrop in place of a Down Ledgedrop, but risks missing the ledge's sweetspot more easily.
On RCO Lag:
When you grab the ledge with an Aerial Gerudo or a Dark Dive, you will incur 16 extra frames of lag the NEXT time you jump and touch the ground. This could occur A) after doing a Ledge Jump in any capacity, or B) after getting up onto the stage in any capacity without jumping, you will incur lag on the next time you touch ground following an aerial. Now, this lag will happen no matter what if you do the Aerial Gerudo or Dark Dive -> Ledgegrab. However, if you ledge grab with Aerial Gerudo, something strange happens. Upon getting up onto the stage, if your next time touching ground is via Aerial Gerudo or Dark Dive, the normal lag of these moves (which is fairly significant) is reduced by about half. This could happen via a Ledge Jump -> Aerial Gerudo/Dark Dive, or could happen after you get up onto the stage and do either of these moves as your NEXT aerial.
These are a few situations you should pound into your head:
These are a few situations you should pound into your head:
- If you grab the ledge with Dark Dive, realize immediately that if the opportunity presents itself that you can safely Back Ledgedrop -> Aerial Gerudo -> Ledge Grab, DO IT. This means that you then have the option of reduced lag on these moves once you're on stage, if you so choose it.
- If you do a get up attack or a roll, realize that the next time you jump and land, you will be completely vulnerable for 16 frames. If your opponent gives you space, short hop immediately after getting up and land. Your lag is gone. You'll notice that many good Ganon players do this instinctively every time they get up from a Ledge Grab via Dark Dive or Aerial Gerudo.
- You can Ledgedrop -> Dark Dive onto the stage and experience half the lag you would have otherwise. This technique is good if you Stage Scar your opponent with the Dark Dive, clearing them out of your way, then land on stage suffering only half of the normal landing lag.
I started the list with what I believe are the options that I believe to be most obvious and least necessary of description. With the exception of Jump -> Aerial Gerudo and Jump -> Airdodge -> Flight of Ganon - which both require a slightly more refined sense of timing than the others - these are the options which are most readily available and most easily executed.
But really, these weren't the reason I made this topic. I hope to engage in a meta-level discussion about not only "what are the options between the ledge and the stage?" but also "how do we use them?", "what conditions make option A better than option B?", "what are your most reliable techniques?", etc. etc. etc.
For starters, some of the things I personally need clarification on are all of the Ledgedrop -> Aerial onto the stage options. So hook me up, guys. I'm in dire need of assistance with this aspect of the game, and it became painfully obvious the other day vs. Salty Kracka who punished me time and time again on my get up techniques (more a factor of his excellent spacing than my sh*tty ledge game, but the point bears repeating).
