Ledge Trumping Options

[DunnoBro]

You should all be familiar with the mechanics of the ledge by now, but I think duck hunt is in a unique position to abuse it.

In addition to the usual "grab ledge after recovering opponent does > punish" I theorize a few interactions with the ledge specific to DHD.

1: He has several options to attack a ledge trumped opponent.

He can:
A: Fall > Jump > Bair (Not guaranteed on most chars)
B: Fall > Jump > Trick shot against the stage, bouncing it behind him and towards the opponent.
C: Fall > Jump > B reverse trick shot
D: Fall > Jump > Clay shot

Options B and C seem to produce about the same results, with C being marginally superior time wise. (Though I don't think it will ever matter much) B to D also allow DHD to regrab the ledge if done right.

Clay shot option I believe needs rather precise timing, both in the jump, toss, and activation but if worked with a delayed activation you may be able to get more out of the damage.

2: He bypasses the main counter to this.

Most people mash l/r, their jump button, or even attack and up to avoid being ledge trumped if they're aware of the danger. However, duck hunt can threaten ALL of these options by placing a can around where they'd roll if they mashed l/r.

*Some characters have get up attacks with enough range to hit the can even from their roll point I think, Like ganon. (Though you should be sending the can after him offstage anyway generally)

This is just theory currently and I haven't tested it against good players, but it seems like something that can help in those matchups with characters who are difficult to threaten offstage.

 

[WispBae]

Can near ledge works wonders. I try to keep it just out of get-up attack range, so they can't swat it away. A fresh can covers rolling and jump options, since you can detonate on roll-in or bounce it up towards people using the high road. It won't cover a normal climb up, or a drop to double jump back up, but you can still shoot the can and force a shield. Then a free grab, toss off stage, and set-up or try to gimp.

I also wouldn't reccomend a clay off stage. It sends you incredibly low, and suceptible to punish, due to the long end lag.

If you can time the can right, popping a new one just as they grab ledge is a frame trap. If they go down, can hits. They stay still, can hits when invulnerability wears off. Get-up, you will be there already to punish. Gotta get creative with that slow initial can speed, it's fantastic for covering options!

 

[DunnoBro]

Can near ledge works wonders. I try to keep it just out of get-up attack range, so they can't swat it away. A fresh can covers rolling and jump options, since you can detonate on roll-in or bounce it up towards people using the high road. It won't cover a normal climb up, or a drop to double jump back up, but you can still shoot the can and force a shield. Then a free grab, toss off stage, and set-up or try to gimp.

I also wouldn't reccomend a clay off stage. It sends you incredibly low, and suceptible to punish, due to the long end lag.

If you can time the can right, popping a new one just as they grab ledge is a frame trap. If they go down, can hits. They stay still, can hits when invulnerability wears off. Get-up, you will be there already to punish. Gotta get creative with that slow initial can speed, it's fantastic for covering options!

Dropping and jumping from the ledge to throw clay away from it puts you back on the ledge, no need to even use his recovery.

But yea I think DHD is just chock full of traps waiting to be mastered and this seems like one of em

It has been working on actual players, but I personally have always had issues speed dropping to the ledge. Also, I often activate the can when clay shotting towards them, or clay shot reflexively when they already rolled so now I can't activate the can.

These seem like personal timing issues though

 

[DunnoBro]

After testing it seems like just leaving the can around the roll point and going for the bair if they di in, and then hitting the can if you miss to punish their lack of invincibility when they come back to the ledge is the easiest and most consistent way to abuse this.

Also for anyone wondering, Duck hunt CAN quick grab the ledge just as fast as sheik, rosalina, etc. You just need to hold down and then the opposite direction. As opposed to them who just need to hold opposite.