Ledge Guarding Low

[Protosauce]

Im having a hard time edge guarding my friends sheik. I always seem to knock him off at low angles, and he always makes it back to the ledge. I don't feel super comfortable going low, mostly because i cant find any options that dont end up with me dying. Most of the time, if i have any sucsess, it just delays the inevitable. People always gripe that shieks recovery is telegraphed and really punishable, but i cant seem to capitalize. other than hogging, what are the best options to stunt the recovery?

also, good tips for the MU in general?

 

[zFrost]

hog the ledge and try to see where she's going, ifit's on stage just get up and punish, i find iy's best to not give sheik wny breathing room because a single needle beats out pkf and a lot of her moves have longer range than magnet does, it's def a hard mu imo

 

[D e l t a]

Copy/pasta from my guide. These are moves that work best.

Onstage
Low Recovery: Bair, Dair, Dsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt (situational). Try to avoid PKT1 (doesn’t work well against most chars unlike Ness' PKT1). With massive startup / end lag, PKT1 is not a great ledge guarding tool, even if you want to get that extra 10-30%. Very unreliable and I have little success.

Offstage
This is the point where Lucas generally goes deep for kills. These are typically meant for more advanced players that are able to recover well or those with great timing and spacing. Going offstage to punish those that recover low can lead to some early kills and gimps. Going full offstage to punish low recoveries is typically when Lucas wants to trade stocks (ie. suicide Bair / Dair) or trade damage.

Rising Dair is good against the recoveries that have a smaller vertical hitbox, or when you are on the ledge and have ledge invincibility (simply release ledge then Dair).

Bair (back facing opponent) or Fair (facing toward the opponent) is good to catch the opponents who are trying to recover at a more diagonal or horizontal angle. Characters this typically works on will be those that take a slightly longer amount of time to recover: Fox/Falco, Marth (when SideB stalling), Samus, Mario, etc.

Falling magnet. Be sure to space well and not hold long as Lucas will plummet fast after activation. One cool trick is to get ledge invincibility, then perform a turnaround magnet from ledge that may stage spike if you can hit the enemy.

 

[D e l t a]

As for beating out a Sheik recovering low, this is very easy: WD onto ledge, wait for her to land on stage, punish. If Sheik is slightly farther away and can make it on stage, use PKFs to make sure they stun her just enough so she will fall a slight bit, and be forced to UpB on stage. If you can catch her as she's jumping right away onto stage, try rising Bair to spike her or Fair to swat her away.

tl;dr Avoid getting grabbed and watch for her tilts. Don't be reckless at any time. Capitalize as often as possible. Sheik doesn't have much end lag to punish most of her attacks. Watch for any openings that you can find. Adapt as well as possible and be sure to have keen spacing. Play this MU similar to vs Marth.

A Brief Summary of the Sheik v Lucas MU
Neutral: Avoid needles and grabs. She can chain grab to mid % which is where combos become deadly on Lucas and may lead to gimps. Use platforms to maneuver needles and avoid Final Destination most of all. Make sure to not get caught in the air as she has many anti-air counters with tilts and great aerials. Approach very cautiously. PKF can only be stopped by her needles, Nair and I believe Ftilt. There might be a few other moves that counter PKF, but these 2-3 are the main moves that Sheik players will use. Needles always beat PKF and is advantage to Sheik because both characters have similar end lag on these moves, but one needle is all it takes to beat PKF, the rest is extra damage on Lucas. Nair only works if she's landing, at which point you can rush Sheik down while she's landing and punish her with a grab or attack. If Sheik does a rising Nair, trap her landing. Note, punishing Sheik's Nair should only be done if you are within 1-3 character lengths and just outside her Nair range. Do not try to punish more than 3 character lengths away.

Combos: Pretty free on Sheik with her weight and fall speed. Hard to start up as she's resilient to getting hit / grabbed. Once you land a hit it's hard for Sheik to do much.

Ledge guards when Lucas is recovering: Avoid Needles and rising aerials from Sheik. Make sure to mixup recoveries very well and do not be afraid to eat a little damage by going high. She is very proficient at gimps and killing Lucas at low heights. Be wary of using your double jump off stage. Once you're hit out of it, recovering becomes infinitely harder, especially in this MU

Ledge guards when Sheik is recovering: As mentioned above for recoveries going low. When going high, there is a certain range on Sheik where she has no vertical hitbox diagonally below her that a rising Fair/Uair/Bair can hit Sheik that she can't hit you. If she does not have a double jump, punish the landings with Utilt/Ftilt at low % Upsmash/Fsmash (especially OU smashes). PKF to catch the double jump or safely space back safely shooting PKF and bat away her high recovery with Fairs and such.