Ledge Guarding and Aerial Finishers.

[Turokman5896]

I've been thinking about smash quite a bit lately, and a few things came to mind regarding SSB4 and it's ledge mechanics. Since players can no longer hog the edge like in previous installments, how much do you think aerial spikes will be used? And are you happy with them taking more prevelance (maybe)? Personally, the most exciting thing to watch and do in smash are mid air finishers, like Mario's fair, so I'm all for it, but I really am curious on the community's standpoint on this.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

It makes the game more engaging. Using edge hogs for kills is the equivilant to using Odd Job in Golden Eye 64, ya you won but can you really take pride in what you've done to do it?

It was a cheap, easy, and lazy tactic and I for one am excited that you actually now have to go off stage to secure your KO.

 

[Senario]

It makes the game more engaging. Using edge hogs for kills is the equivilant to using Odd Job in Golden Eye 64, ya you won but can you really take pride in what you've done to do it?

It was a cheap, easy, and lazy tactic and I for one am excited that you actually now have to go off stage to secure your KO.

No Johns.

It was a fair tactic that added to the excitement of the game on a competitive level. Dying wasn't tied to your percent, it was tied to skill.

Also, this doesn't mean spikes will be used more, it probably will just mean people will try to gimp you off the edge more instead of grabbing the ledge. Poke so you can't reach ledge = works almost as good.

 

[Turokman5896]

No Johns.

It was a fair tactic that added to the excitement of the game on a competitive level. Dying wasn't tied to your percent, it was tied to skill.

Also, this doesn't mean spikes will be used more, it probably will just mean people will try to gimp you off the edge more instead of grabbing the ledge. Poke so you can't reach ledge = works almost as good.

Don't nerfed projectiles and increased landing lag make gimping harder now? Although riskier, aerial finishers may be the most effective option for koing of stage now.

 

[Senario]

Don't nerfed projectiles and increased landing lag make gimping harder now? Although riskier, aerial finishers may be the most effective option for koing of stage now.

Not really, projectiles off the stage generally just means it has to do any kind of stun or knockback. Think Falco lasers. Or pikachu's B and how it was used by axe at evo.

I was thinking if a person is coming in low for recovery instead of rolling up onto the stage to prevent them from grabbing you do the other thing, you fall of the ledge and jump+back air or something to poke them enough so they aren't close enough to recover. Then you B up and just recover yourself.

What I was thinking is that it doesn't mean you will see more downward spikes, those moves generally aren't consistent among chars or as useful. Fox down Air is terrible for spiking but Falco's is great, marth's down air is good if they are above the stage but if you are hanging off the ledge it might be easier/safer to fall off and jump for back air. Maybe reverse up B.

Spikes themselves will be the same as ever. Gimping an opponent so they cannot make it back to the ledge will likely be used more than plain edgeguarding.

Though I never saw the problem with the technique, it had it's benefits and downsides. If the enemy recovered high being on the ledge meant nothing. It is a competitive tactic that I felt was fine as is. If you feel that you got robbed of the ledge, remember there are no "oh that is too cheap" tricks in fighting games, people will use anything and everything to win when it comes to gameplay stuff. Ruleset is a slightly different thing but that is a complete different argument(no Sudden death plz)

 

[Turokman5896]

Not really, projectiles off the stage generally just means it has to do any kind of stun or knockback. Think Falco lasers. Or pikachu's B and how it was used by axe at evo.

I was thinking if a person is coming in low for recovery instead of rolling up onto the stage to prevent them from grabbing you do the other thing, you fall of the ledge and jump+back air or something to poke them enough so they aren't close enough to recover. Then you B up and just recover yourself.

What I was thinking is that it doesn't mean you will see more downward spikes, those moves generally aren't consistent among chars or as useful. Fox down Air is terrible for spiking but Falco's is great, marth's down air is good if they are above the stage but if you are hanging off the ledge it might be easier/safer to fall off and jump for back air. Maybe reverse up B.

Spikes themselves will be the same as ever. Gimping an opponent so they cannot make it back to the ledge will likely be used more than plain edgeguarding.

Though I never saw the problem with the technique, it had it's benefits and downsides. If the enemy recovered high being on the ledge meant nothing. It is a competitive tactic that I felt was fine as is. If you feel that you got robbed of the ledge, remember there are no "oh that is too cheap" tricks in fighting games, people will use anything and everything to win when it comes to gameplay stuff. Ruleset is a slightly different thing but that is a complete different argument(no Sudden death plz)

If you have to jump off the stage to back air per se, that also gives your opponent a chance to up b right back on stage or attack you with their aerial as well. It still rewards the more aggressive play style, which I like, rather than the safeness of grabbing the ledge. Ledge guarding isn't as safe a maneuver anymore I suppose. Also, I don't dislike edge hogging, but watching a falcon dair an opponent to his doom is extremely satisfying, and I hope smash 4 rewards players with the skill and precision to pull off moves like that. I've also noticed that some characters, particularly megaman have really interesting spikes, do you think they may be used more?

 

[Senario]

If you have to jump off the stage to back air per se, that also gives your opponent a chance to up b right back on stage or attack you with their aerial as well. It still rewards the more aggressive play style, which I like, rather than the safeness of grabbing the ledge. Ledge guarding isn't as safe a maneuver anymore I suppose. Also, I don't dislike edge hogging, but watching a falcon dair an opponent to his doom is extremely satisfying, and I hope smash 4 rewards players with the skill and precision to pull off moves like that. I've also noticed that some characters, particularly megaman have really interesting spikes, do you think they may be used more?

Eeeh as I said, spikes won't be used more. People will just poke others off the stage more with other moves that are more safe. Back airs are some of these, up B like marth also works. I doubt we will see more spikes for finishing, captain falcon would more likely just do a back air to keep them far enough so they can't recover.

Edgeguarding was one of the few defensive mechanics I did like as I don't think it was all that safe, sure it covered some options but again, people can recover high and make your edgeguard not matter as much. Directional airdodge onto the stage also messed with how good the edgeguard was. Just saying, not all defensive mechanics are bad it is just you need them in the right place for them to not be unconductive to competitive play. Crouch cancelling and edgeguarding are two good ones for defense but also good for an offensive game since they have risks and rewards.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Ledge trumping does let you force the opponent off the ledge right as they grab it though, and that may have some merit. It seems like a big risk, but characters with extremely high aerial mobility seem like they'd be able to really take advantage of that in situations where they didn't have time to go off stage for a traditional gimp.

Even more, invincibility no longer resets on repeated ledge grabs; I think ledge trapping people will be huge. Think about it with Marth. Just let them take the ledge, and use your normals to cover all of their options back up. They drop down and regrab, but now they're stuck. You not only can still cover all of their options with your range, but you can hit them off the ledge with a nice tipper whenever you find an opening. IMO for most characters this is going to grow to be the biggest thing; you don't necessarily get an instant punish on the opponent being off-stage, but you put them in a bad positional situation where they have to make a strong read to reset to neutral and otherwise just keep failing to get back.

 

[immortalmertyl]

these new ledge mechanics will probably be great for the villager's side smash (bowling ball drop) which otherwise seemed pretty godawful when i tried the game.

 

[GrownCannoli]

I will have to play it before I say I don't like it. However the most hype part of Evo was Axe's 4 stock and he was hogging the ledge.

It makes the game more engaging. Using edge hogs for kills is the equivilant to using Odd Job in Golden Eye 64, ya you won but can you really take pride in what you've done to do it?

It was a cheap, easy, and lazy tactic and I for one am excited that you actually now have to go off stage to secure your KO.

Your mindset is the bane of the competitive community. Developers cater to your type since you are the majority(casuals) and the game suffers longevity and depth because of it.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Well, I will say that edgehogging certainly doesn't look as good as actually just thwacking your opponent with an offstage aerial.

Also, I'm not certain, but there might still be some merit in "edgehogging", depending on exactly how it pops you off. In particular, you might grab the ledge just so your opponent pops you off of it, leaving you in the perfect position to spike them. This wouldn't work at lower percentages because invincibility frames last a while, but I think they actually get shorter the higher your percentage is. And of course, invincibility duration doesn't refresh each time you grab the ledge.

 

[Deleted member]

In addition to multiple edge grabs not restoring invincibility (unless the player touches the ground first, of course) during E3 it was also demonstrated that characters now will conserve momentum to an extent (at least I think so) when they run off the edge of the stage. Instead of just entering into their aerial fall animation, characters will actually execute some sort of roll off the edge first, which iirc, maintains the momentum they had from the dash before running off the stage.

I feel this new capability to keep momentum when running off an edge will allow for more aggressive pursuance of a KO once a player knocks their opponent off the stage.

Just an idea...

 

[LancerStaff]

I will have to play it before I say I don't like it. However the most hype part of Evo was Axe's 4 stock and he was hogging the ledge.


Your mindset is the bane of the competitive community. Developers cater to your type since you are the majority(casuals) and the game suffers longevity and depth because of it.

No, not really. Especially not in this case. I'm a Pit player, so naturally I abused the ledge mechanics whenever I could. But it definitely wasn't as fun or complex as intercepting. This is, without question, a change for the better.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I feel this new capability to keep momentum when running off an edge will allow for more aggressive pursuance of a KO once a player knocks their opponent off the stage.

Just an idea...

They did indeed confirm at the Treehouse that you actually retain momentum when deliberately running off the edge. I can see this being used for combo opportunities, too. For example, I saw gameplay on the 3DS demo of Mario versus Bowser in a standard time match. I couldn't see Bowser's damage percentage, but I do know that Mario managed to combo the third hit of jab into a Forward Aerial, meteoring Bowser. I think Mario used a short hop for this in the footage, but if you're fighting a character like Mega Man, Fox, or King Dedede who falls really, really fast, the run-off would be another way to continue the combo. Especially since you save 3 frames by not having to perform a short hop.

 

[Vann Accessible]

To me, edgeguarding was too safe. It had little risk vs reward. In the past, if you were confident your opponent was far enough out over the ledge that the only way they were able to recover was by grabbing the ledge, then there was no realistic way they could recover, once you become proficient at edgeguarding.

Conversely, intercepting with aerials requires you to jump out off the screen, which means you may self-destruct yourself, or set yourself up for a KO, if you miscalculate.

The change also makes multijump characters like Kirby, Pit, Dedede, Charizard, Jiggs (Ridley?!) more viable in a competitive setting, since they can jump out farther to intercept before returning, and characters like Link and Samus have more recovery options with their newly lengthened tethers.

This is a great change.

 

[GrownCannoli]

What all of you don't understand is that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to be edge guarded anyhow and if you do than you deserve to lose the stock. Especially since it has been this way since Smash 64. I'm ok with new things but the old saying don't fix what is not broken comes to mind.

Sounds like more catering to the casual crowd to me. I'm happy though because without casuals we wouldn't be getting a new game, however I fail to see how anyone can argue that this is a good change when the first 3 installments were wildly popular and I don't remember a lot of people complain about this in the first place. Except the people who could not recover properly or weren't old enough to play the older titles.

Plus if this was a big problem for you personally than pick someone like Samus, Link, or anyone else who can grab the ledge with their air grab.

 

[LancerStaff]

What all of you don't understand is that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to be edge guarded anyhow and if you do than you deserve to lose the stock. Especially since it has been this way since Smash 64. I'm ok with new things but the old saying don't fix what is not broken comes to mind.

Sounds like more catering to the casual crowd to me. I'm happy though because without casuals we wouldn't be getting a new game, however I fail to see how anyone can argue that this is a good change when the first 3 installments were wildly popular and I don't remember a lot of people complain about this in the first place. Except the people who could not recover properly or weren't old enough to play the older titles.

Plus if this was a big problem for you personally than pick someone like Samus, Link, or anyone else who can grab the ledge with their air grab.

Oh noes, recovery is slightly easier! It's the end of the world! SSB4 is trash! Peh.

I'll take easier recovery and an interesting ledge game over difficult recovery and an incredibly dull ledge game.

 

[Senario]

Oh noes, recovery is slightly easier! It's the end of the world! SSB4 is trash! Peh.

I'll take easier recovery and an interesting ledge game over difficult recovery and an incredibly dull ledge game.

If dull is watching Axe dominate with Pikachu over fox then I'm going to be shocked with what you consider Interesting.

He is right, you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you have to recover low and sweet spot the ledge. Less options for taking a stock = more defensive gameplay.

 

[Gameboi834]

He is right, you shouldn't put yourself in a position wherevyou have to recover low and sweet spot the ledge.

You also shouldn't put yourself in a position to be hit by your opponent, but just because they can hit you doesn't mean you're bad or "deserve to lose the stock".

If this mechanic means more epic stage spikes and risky situations I'm all for it. I think we're going to see more aerial play away from the stage where it's more tense, and that excites me.

 

[LancerStaff]

If dull is watching Axe dominate with Pikachu over fox then I'm going to be shocked with what you consider Interesting.

He is right, you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you have to recover low and sweet spot the ledge. Less options for taking a stock = more defensive gameplay.

Edgeguarding is rarely interesting. One case isn't enough to justify the old system to return. I'd say you want the old way back because it's the old way.

Less options? Actually, I'd say taking this away gives us more viable options for ledge play. Like if MK was banned from Brawl.

Oh, and offense is not better then defense. It's quite easy to point out Melee fans in other forums by how they have to say offense is better whenever the subject comes up. Even when, yaknow, nerfing offense was a good thing. Mario Kart, for example.

 

[Vann Accessible]

If dull is watching Axe dominate with Pikachu over fox then I'm going to be shocked with what you consider Interesting.

He is right, you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you have to recover low and sweet spot the ledge. Less options for taking a stock = more defensive gameplay.

"Don't put yourself in a position to be edgeguarded" is a gross oversimplification. It happens a lot, and it's often unavoidable. Watch any competitive match.

I think people are just resistant to change for the sake of being conservative. If you don't want to see the benefits of something new, then you never will. You've already decided you don't like it, before even playing the game. Just try to be a little more open minded and try giving it a chance.

My inclination is edgeguarding being gone will make the game more interesting and diverse, because rather than rely on a single universal skill, you are being challenged to be less safe and use each individual character's different approach to intercepting with aerials/projectiles differently to secure KOs.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Second Power]

If this mechanic means more epic stage spikes and risky situations I'm all for it. I think we're going to see more aerial play away from the stage where it's more tense, and that excites me.

I really don't have an opinion on this change, but this comment is wrong. IIRC Brawl's meteor canceling is still in the game. Which means they (meteors) pretty much aren't viable except against newbies. If anything, this change made them even worse because you can't meteor -> edgehog a character with meh vertical recovery.

I'm not clear if you can actually follow up on a trumped opponent, can someone confirm this? I imagine you can if you force them to the ledge again before they hit the ground, but what about right after they're trumped and in the air?

 

[Bladeviper]

"Don't put yourself in a position to be edgeguarded" is a gross oversimplification. It happens a lot, and it's often unavoidable. Watch any competitive match.

I think people are just resistant to change for the sake of being conservative. If you don't want to see the benefits of something new, then you never will. You've already decided you don't like it, before even playing the game. Just try to be a little more open minded and try giving it a chance.

My inclination is edgeguarding being gone will make the game more interesting and diverse, because rather than rely on a single universal skill, you are being challenged to be less safe and use each individual character's different approach to intercepting with aerials/projectiles differently to secure KOs.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

i think edge guarding will still be there, its just edge hogging is gone

I really don't have an opinion on this change, but this comment is wrong. IIRC Brawl's meteor canceling is still in the game. Which means they (meteors) pretty much aren't viable except against newbies. If anything, this change made them even worse because you can't meteor -> edgehog a character with meh vertical recovery.

I'm not clear if you can actually follow up on a trumped opponent, can someone confirm this? I imagine you can if you force them to the ledge again before they hit the ground, but what about right after they're trumped and in the air?

you can hit them after you take a ledge, there was some videos of it, i think during the treehouse

 

[Conda]

What all of you don't understand is that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to be edge guarded anyhow and if you do than you deserve to lose the stock. Especially since it has been this way since Smash 64. I'm ok with new things but the old saying don't fix what is not broken comes to mind.

Sounds like more catering to the casual crowd to me. I'm happy though because without casuals we wouldn't be getting a new game, however I fail to see how anyone can argue that this is a good change when the first 3 installments were wildly popular and I don't remember a lot of people complain about this in the first place. Except the people who could not recover properly or weren't old enough to play the older titles.

Plus if this was a big problem for you personally than pick someone like Samus, Link, or anyone else who can grab the ledge with their air grab.

Stages were generally much larger in Smash 64

 

[HeavyLobster]

Keep in mind that the new ledge mechanics were probably implemented to prevent stuff like Meta Knight planking, and not because edge-hogging is "cheap."(It isn't) Brawl's ledge mechanics were blatantly broken and Sakurai decided that he'd rather try something new than go back to Melee ledge mechanics. Only time will tell if the new system works.

 

[Turokman5896]

They did indeed confirm at the Treehouse that you actually retain momentum when deliberately running off the edge. I can see this being used for combo opportunities, too. For example, I saw gameplay on the 3DS demo of Mario versus Bowser in a standard time match. I couldn't see Bowser's damage percentage, but I do know that Mario managed to combo the third hit of jab into a Forward Aerial, meteoring Bowser. I think Mario used a short hop for this in the footage, but if you're fighting a character like Mega Man, Fox, or King Dedede who falls really, really fast, the run-off would be another way to continue the combo. Especially since you save 3 frames by not having to perform a short hop.

That's really cool. I think characters like dk or Mario may really want to go for the early spike kills now. Hopefully players will feel confident enough to do so.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I really don't have an opinion on this change, but this comment is wrong. IIRC Brawl's meteor canceling is still in the game. Which means they (meteors) pretty much aren't viable except against newbies. If anything, this change made them even worse because you can't meteor -> edgehog a character with meh vertical recovery.

I'm not clear if you can actually follow up on a trumped opponent, can someone confirm this? I imagine you can if you force them to the ledge again before they hit the ground, but what about right after they're trumped and in the air?

In Brawl you can only meteor cancel after traveling half of the distance the meteor will send you as opposed to in Melee where you can meteor cancel at any time. Meteors are powerful and useful in Brawl.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I really don't have an opinion on this change, but this comment is wrong. IIRC Brawl's meteor canceling is still in the game. Which means they (meteors) pretty much aren't viable except against newbies. If anything, this change made them even worse because you can't meteor -> edgehog a character with meh vertical recovery.

I'm not clear if you can actually follow up on a trumped opponent, can someone confirm this? I imagine you can if you force them to the ledge again before they hit the ground, but what about right after they're trumped and in the air?

They were still viable in Brawl.

It's puts the spiked character is a bad situation. Diddy can still spike, Marth can footstool into a garanteed tippered Dair, Falco has his spike. Them cancelling it partly doesn't remove the fact it's still good at putting them in a bad situation if not outright killing them.

Granted I main someone who was more susceptible to them but still you get my point.

 

[Book Jacket]

If dull is watching Axe dominate with Pikachu over fox then I'm going to be shocked with what you consider Interesting.

He is right, you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you have to recover low and sweet spot the ledge. Less options for taking a stock = more defensive gameplay.

But the great thing about watching Axe was that he wasn't just taking the ledge from Silentwolf, he wasn't just wavedashing back to the ledge and sitting there while fox fell to his death, it was the fact that he went away from the ledge. He went down there, and he attacked Silentwolf's fox, he hit him so fast and so hard that he never even got the chance to recover.

That kind of situation, one in which the strategic kill is executed not by taking the ledge, but by following your opponent off and hitting them into the abyss, is exactly what the new ledge mechanics will support.

In short, Axe did exactly what we'll be seeing more of in Smash 4, and it was very, very hype.

 

[Pazzo.]

The new edge mechanics really does add more to the game. Off-stage gameplay will be more exciting, with the 'easy' route of edgehoging gone.

 

[D-idara]

What all of you don't understand is that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to be edge guarded anyhow and if you do than you deserve to lose the stock. Especially since it has been this way since Smash 64. I'm ok with new things but the old saying don't fix what is not broken comes to mind.

Sounds like more catering to the casual crowd to me. I'm happy though because without casuals we wouldn't be getting a new game, however I fail to see how anyone can argue that this is a good change when the first 3 installments were wildly popular and I don't remember a lot of people complain about this in the first place. Except the people who could not recover properly or weren't old enough to play the older titles.

Plus if this was a big problem for you personally than pick someone like Samus, Link, or anyone else who can grab the ledge with their air grab.

Man...what's exactly your problem? IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE A STOCK INMEDIATELY! YOU SHOULDN'T PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO BLARRGHRAAAARGH...that's all I heard after, we get it...the Melee community doesn't want a super-defensive game, but why does it have to be super-offensive? Why do you want every little mistake to cost people a stock? This mindset's incredibly etilist and tries to bring people who aren't as good at the game down. Yes, now you can't edgeguard as well, that's good because the game will shift towards using the actual moves, not poking someone and gimping them at 15%

 

[GrownCannoli]

Man...what's exactly your problem? IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE A STOCK INMEDIATELY! YOU SHOULDN'T PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO BLARRGHRAAAARGH...

I'll just stop right there.

If this is the new competitive smash "community" it's really a shame. Please don't ever quote me again. I did report you by the way for attacking me again.

Just to stay on topic I wish they did not change this mechanic however it could be a very exciting change if they do it right or a very boring one if they do it wrong.

 

[Metallaeus]

This will make the game more interesting overall, imo. Now, there is more of a risk-reward system, or you could have more interesting edge guarding situations involving interesting setups. It may be different, but I'd say it's actually a step in the right direction. As I recall, someone from the invitational said that you could have them cling onto the ledge, pop em off by taking over, jump off and back air (or other options) and stuff like that, so that'll be interesting to watch. I'm sure edge guarding still exists, it's just not as easy anymore.

 

[Metallaeus]

I'll just stop right there.

If this is the new competitive smash "community" it's really a shame. Please don't ever quote me again. I did report you by the way for attacking me again.

Just to stay on topic I wish they did not change this mechanic however it could be a very exciting change if they do it right or a very boring one if they do it wrong.

To be fair, your elitist "I'm more competitive than you'll ever be" attitude and lack of respect for the opinions of other players is quite rude as well. "Your mindset is the bane of the competitive community. Developers cater to your type since you are the majority(casuals) and the game suffers longevity and depth because of it." You should wait to try the game before you say stuff like that. Also the casuals keep this game alive, but you know that already.

 

[D-idara]

I'll just stop right there.

If this is the new competitive smash "community" it's really a shame. Please don't ever quote me again. I did report you by the way for attacking me again.

Just to stay on topic I wish they did not change this mechanic however it could be a very exciting change if they do it right or a very boring one if they do it wrong.

Where did I attack you? I'm just tired of your passive-agressiveness towards the casual Smash fanbase, and your inmediate assumption that this benefits the casual community even though all it does is discourage people from staying on the stage's ledges, either play offstage or play onstage.

What all of you don't understand is that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to be edge guarded anyhow and if you do than you deserve to lose the stock

This sounds like you don't want anyone who makes a mistake to have a chance to recover, and the game can't be 100% hyper-offense, there has to be certain comeback mechanics, and one of them has also been on the game since 64, RETURNING FROM OFF THE STAGE.

Sounds like more catering to the casual crowd to me. I'm happy though because without casuals we wouldn't be getting a new game, however I fail to see how anyone can argue that this is a good change when the first 3 installments were wildly popular and I don't remember a lot of people complain about this in the first place. Except the people who could not recover properly or weren't old enough to play the older titles.

"Only casuals and scrubs who can't recover like this change, there can't be people who just dislike extreme emphasis on ledgehogging and quick-gimping" You can't tell me your post didn't have a condescending tone. I love this change because it'll emphasize the actual game mechanics on or offstage, not a tipper battle to see who can land the most precise sweetspot on the ledge.

 

[Starphoenix]

@ D-idara : Easy now. You've gotten into trouble in the past for your temper. Let's try and cool things down in here.

@ GrownCannoli : You might as well stop too.

 

[GrownCannoli]

To be fair, your elitist "I'm more competitive than you'll ever be" attitude and lack of respect for the opinions of other players is quite rude as well. "Your mindset is the bane of the competitive community. Developers cater to your type since you are the majority(casuals) and the game suffers longevity and depth because of it." You should wait to try the game before you say stuff like that. Also the casuals keep this game alive, but you know that already.

No that's just so wrong. I never said I was better than anyone. Competitive is a word that I don't think you or hardly anyone understand anymore. Competitiveness is not an opinion by the way its either more or less. Plus I don't have an attitude at all. You just don't like what I said so you have to flame me like everyone else.

@ D-idara :
@ GrownCannoli : You might as well stop too.

Ok I will. However isn't sad that critical comments can't be said on the forum? It's not like I am just making stuff up and attacking people when I speak.

 

[Metallaeus]

No that's just so wrong. I never said I was better than anyone. Competitive is a word that I don't think you or hardly anyone understand anymore. Competitiveness is not an opinion by the way its either more or less. Plus I don't have an attitude at all. You just don't like what I said so you have to flame me like everyone else.

1. I didn't flame you at all.
2. You're going completely off-topic now. You should just stop, please.
Let's get this thread back on topic, please.

 

[Bladeviper]

i post this again, i like this change as all it does it remove edge hogging which is imo too easy to do for the benefit as there is no risk at all. Add the fact that if you trump a player off the ledge it seems you can act out of it immediately makes it a more interesting approach to the ledge game then just, grab ledge take a stock

 

[D-idara]

@ D-idara : Easy now. You've gotten into trouble in the past for your temper. Let's try and cool things down in here.

@ GrownCannoli : You might as well stop too.

OK, I'll stop, I already stated that I like the change so I'll leave the thread.