Leaf Shield. Good or Bad?

[Chan_MMssb]

So I don't get the hype about leaf shield. I don't feel like it a very good move. I saw that Scatt used it quite a bit at MLG, but I didn't really understand what he was doing. It has long start up and only stays out for a short period of time, and does like 5 damage when thrown. Half the time I feel like it doesn't even do it's job when I'm trying to get a grab. The only thin I can really see it for is off stage gimmick gimping. But even that is so risky because you can't recover when you have it out. Yeah and footstool jab lock combos but whens the last time someone did that in a tournament?

Someone give me some enlightenment here. Am I missing something about this move? Or is it actually bad?

GO

 

[xIvan321]

It actually does 7 damage when tossed (3.5 a piece) and you wanna know what actually has a longer end lag? Charge shot. The Leaf Shield out ranges charge shot, is highly disruptive and will cancel any physical or item projectiles, and is actually much safer than charge shot. Yes it can't kill unless its sudden death or something, but its actually much more handy than you think, like for example if you toss the leaf shield Peach for instance can't turnip gimp you off stage. Mario and Pikachu can't use neutral b, and Samus missiles are defeated, and as the shield passes, it will hit them.

In the end, I'd rather use the leaf shield than the charge shot in most cases. The last buff made it manageable. Sure it does slightly less damage than the charge shot, but you are screwed when someone perfect shields it, which is bad. Also the best part of it is nobody can perfect shield the leaf shield toss. They must stay in shield to defend themselves.

 

[smasher1001]

If leaf shield had just a bit faster startup I'd be content with it. I still use it as is, but it would allow it to be used so much more often if it had less startup.

 

[Chan_MMssb]

It actually does 7 damage when tossed (3.5 a piece) and you wanna know what actually has a longer end lag? Charge shot. The Leaf Shield out ranges charge shot, is highly disruptive and will cancel any physical or item projectiles, and is actually much safer than charge shot. Yes it can't kill unless its sudden death or something, but its actually much more handy than you think, like for example if you toss the leaf shield Peach for instance can't turnip gimp you off stage. Mario and Pikachu can't use neutral b, and Samus missiles are defeated, and as the shield passes, it will hit them.

In the end, I'd rather use the leaf shield than the charge shot in most cases. The last buff made it manageable. Sure it does slightly less damage than the charge shot, but you are screwed when someone perfect shields it, which is bad. Also the best part of it is nobody can perfect shield the leaf shield toss. They must stay in shield to defend themselves.

I see. So the best time to use it would be from afar for a disruption purpose?

 

[CopShowGuy]

It's great for returning from a high disadvantageous position. It's a move that lets you dodge while still having a hitbox around you. It makes your dodges very safe.

 

[xIvan321]

I see. So the best time to use it would be from afar for a disruption purpose?

Pretty much. You just gotta realize your priorities of the match. Hypathetically: Do I want to kill the person or want safer damage...? If I use this move, what are the out comes and what rewards/punishes will I receive?

Outside of this analogy both moves have more than just one use like charge shot's cool down can be cancelled upon getting hit from a Luigi Fireball or another pellet and has translucent priority which goes through everything/cant be stopped unless obligatory counter option, while leaf shield swallows things often and is better as a defensive tool against projectiles as a shot than worn often. The priority of projectile leaf shield is actually a cusp of both translucent and physical as the best way to describe it.

But my point is that the leaf shield is far from **** and actually has distinguishable situations where you could use advantageously. Same with charge shot. As stated before it really depends where should you use it. Leaf Shield is also harder to perfect shield especially when standing/walking. Dashing into shield may count as 1 hit but at least you can retreat with it.

 

[Greward]

Leaf shield is a strong tool for edgeguarding and juggling, also for pressuring platforms and sometimes in neutral. It's pretty useful to land too.

All in all it's a super good move, just hard to use.
But charge shot sucks ass.

 

[Sorichuudo]

But charge shot sucks ***.

https://youtu.be/Vx-iLArPDPU?t=7

 

[Chan_MMssb]

https://youtu.be/Vx-iLArPDPU?t=7

LMFAO

 

[ChopperDave]

Yeah, Leaf Shield is a good move. Helps you approach safely, great off stage uses, good for stalling when you need it, helps you recover from above more safely, can set up footstools, has good synergy with item Metal Blade and Hyper Bomb, good juke when B reversed / wave bounced, etc. It's one of the tools that makes Mega Man unique in this game, for better or for worse.

Mega Man has much worse moves. Namely, fsmash and dsmash. Wish those would get buffed already.

 

[p1ay6ack]

well, Scatt just showed us today how useful leaf shield is in the captain falcon MU. well, its crucial in high lvl play. get captain falcon away with your zoning, get enough time to activate leaf shield, then wait for him to approach you while leaf shield is up. the petals would disrupt any captain falcon approach if you space well, and when captain falcon gets in leaf petal hit stun, thats when you go in. it was really smart for scatt to do this and this tech could be used on charchs who rely on getting in like falcon

 

[Sorichuudo]

well, Scatt just showed us today how useful leaf shield is in the captain falcon MU. well, its crucial in high lvl play. get captain falcon away with your zoning, get enough time to activate leaf shield, then wait for him to approach you while leaf shield is up. the petals would disrupt any captain falcon approach if you space well, and when captain falcon gets in leaf petal hit stun, thats when you go in. it was really smart for scatt to do this and this tech could be used on charchs who rely on getting in like falcon

Please tell me there will be videos later.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Please tell me there will be videos later.

There had better be!

 

[Chan_MMssb]

Yeah, Leaf Shield is a good move. Helps you approach safely, great off stage uses, good for stalling when you need it, helps you recover from above more safely, can set up footstools, has good synergy with item Metal Blade and Hyper Bomb, good juke when B reversed / wave bounced, etc. It's one of the tools that makes Mega Man unique in this game, for better or for worse.

Mega Man has much worse moves. Namely, fsmash and dsmash. Wish those would get buffed already.

Ikr. Downsmash is horrible.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Please tell me there will be videos later.

Hopefully, it'll probs be uploaded by Smash Studios on Youtube. I know EE had a fun time on commentary with Scatt going Megaman

 

[Sorichuudo]

Scatt playing and EE commentating?

If there are no videos i'm going to deep fry a puppy!


... ok i wont, but i will be really sad.

 

[meleebrawler]

Scatt playing and EE commentating?

If there are no videos i'm going to deep fry a puppy!


... ok i wont, but i will be really sad.

I don't think Rush would appreciate that...

 

[Sorichuudo]

Yeah, figures, so i gave up on that.
Can't really have chicken either, cause if i do Beat will eat my face.

 

[xIvan321]

Ikr. Downsmash is horrible.

Down Smash may not be our best smash, but I feel charge shot could be our worst against the right shenanigans. If you know well you to perfect shield for instance, Mega Man will always be left pretty helpless. Its a really bad move if not distanced correctly and even then you are still way better off using Leaf Shield or even Down Smash in more situations than the charge shot. In a serious competitive fight, I find it the sin of everybody who tries to Mega Man ever at their first tournament. There are much more safer moves than that and I'd also use f-tilt/nair pivots out of dash in more situations being both a lot safer and usable.

The thing with charge shot is it requires to sit in the middle or else they can just very easily back away. Its only good spur random use would be from punishing get up options, people hanging from the ledge, or people just tipping over the edge sometimes (although I'd just pellet them so they "slip" off the stage)

The other only other time you can use it safely is when its combined with crash bomber.

Leaf Shield still does that hang on the ledge punish a little better because the range is much wider and if its on Battlefield it can lead to a techable kill. Down tilt is also good as a ledge hanging punish.

My stance on d-smash is they have gotta get rid of those sour spots. Fixing the cool down would be fine, but the thing that ruins the move for me are always the sour spots. I would prefer it to kill pretty reliably, but I think I could trust the move more than charge shot anyways being less predictable.

 

[glenn]

Downsmash is pretty bad, but it has uses. Against cape happy Marios, I like moves with symmetrical hitboxes (DSmash and USmash) . If I see someone approaching/landing with cape as a response to my projectiles, I'll change it up and DSmash instead. It warrants early kills on a character that is often hard to get setups on.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Yeah, Leaf Shield is a good move. Helps you approach safely, great off stage uses, good for stalling when you need it, helps you recover from above more safely, can set up footstools, has good synergy with item Metal Blade and Hyper Bomb, good juke when B reversed / wave bounced, etc. It's one of the tools that makes Mega Man unique in this game, for better or for worse.

Mega Man has much worse moves. Namely, fsmash and dsmash. Wish those would get buffed already.

F-Smash just needs less ending lag and (maybe) more damage output. Then again, when reflected, that's gonna be worse for us, so maybe just settling for less ending lag would be nice.
As for D-Smash, xIvan321 pointed out that getting rid of the sour spots would be beneficial and have the hitbox hit more reliably.

As for my opinion on Leaf Shield, I think it's a good move as it helps add damage to grabs and is useful for edgeguarding. Just never throw it and you'll be fine.

 

[Greward]

Fsmash needs to be faster or have the projectile speed up. End lag would be cool too but it's no use if the move is extremely hard to hit (I think it lives on matchup inexperience). An even when it hits it's super weak for a Forward Smash :/


Leaf shield is actually a super good move, our second best special, it's just hard to learn to use it effectively.

 

[meleebrawler]

F-Smash just needs less ending lag and (maybe) more damage output. Then again, when reflected, that's gonna be worse for us, so maybe just settling for less ending lag would be nice.
As for D-Smash, xIvan321 pointed out that getting rid of the sour spots would be beneficial and have the hitbox hit more reliably.

As for my opinion on Leaf Shield, I think it's a good move as it helps add damage to grabs and is useful for edgeguarding. Just never throw it and you'll be fine.

Throwing it can be a useful surprise though, especially if they take to running away when it's active. Can help against weak projectile spam too.

Fsmash needs to be faster or have the projectile speed up. End lag would be cool too but it's no use if the move is extremely hard to hit (I think it lives on matchup inexperience). An even when it hits it's super weak for a Forward Smash :/

Well to be fair, you never really use partially charged shots in Megaman games except by accident. It's either all or nothing.

 

[Yeah_ok]

Leaf shield seems to really come in handy since you should already be hopping around using lemons.
I think it's great to SH behind someone while its active. Not only does it cross up it forces the opponent to rethink reaction inputs. I'm not saying to just hop from side to side recklessly but play with it. It definitely has use in the mid range.
It's good as an edge guard but don't get too predictable as someone may stuff your jump with an attack. The leaves will reset their recovery action

 

[xIvan321]

As for my opinion on Leaf Shield, I think it's a good move as it helps add damage to grabs and is useful for edgeguarding. Just never throw it and you'll be fine.

You'll wanna throw them regardless for reasons I posted earlier. Due to how F-Smash is, you may be better off tossing shield since its much safer. Its better than Charge Shot in spur random uses than F-Smash actually is. F-Smash has both start up and end lag. With start lag enough for opponents to shield or react as long as they didn't dash or move incorrectly. Leaf Shield at least auto cancels by the time you've made two jumps making it plenty mobile, and its harder to shield since it hits opponents twice normally.

In this current patch, leaf shield projectile comes more in handy than charge shot does and that wont change until they reduce some of the lag for charge shot in either start or end. The charge shot probably wont unfortunately because it was purposely designed to be an Achilles' heel from the start unlike the rest of his projectiles. Making it terrible for Mega Man once a person perfect shields, attacks, or even reflect. The only thing that might continue to get better is leaf shield until it eventually becomes the best move in the game.

My top fixes I only ask for is for flame sword end lag to be reduce to auto cancel from a short hop at least and flame blast needs to have it's hitboxes rearranged. Maybe lag reduced too, but idk... The more I play, the less I mind, but it still would be cool to have a d-smash similar to ZSS without the stun of course.

 

[CopShowGuy]

I guess they thought it was a good idea to give such a powerful (when charged) ranged smash attack plenty of start and end lag to balance it. I sure wish I could use fsmash and dsmash more often...

 

[xIvan321]

I guess they thought it was a good idea to give such a powerful (when charged) ranged smash attack plenty of start and end lag to balance it. I sure wish I could use fsmash and dsmash more often...

The knock back is incredible nonetheless. Its a really good kill move considering how weak the damage is.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

You know, I only use FSmash when my opponent is trying to land. I pretty much always charge it completely when my opponent has no reflector. The move itself isn't great, but at max range, it gets so big, your opponent can't get around it easily if they have no jumps XD

 

[p1ay6ack]

i pray for the day mega's fair gets ridiculously fast like shiek fair

 

[Chan_MMssb]

Downsmash is pretty bad, but it has uses. Against cape happy Marios, I like moves with symmetrical hitboxes (DSmash and USmash) . If I see someone approaching/landing with cape as a response to my projectiles, I'll change it up and DSmash instead. It warrants early kills on a character that is often hard to get setups on.

Yeah it's generally good for getting those hard reads.

 

[Chan_MMssb]

i pray for the day mega's fair gets ridiculously fast like shiek fair

PLEASE that would be pyscho

 

[ForteX]

A thread about leaf shield turning into charge shot hate? Surprise, I guess.

I used to think Leaf Shield was bad, I'll be honest. I love admitting when I'm wrong, though, and now I think Leaf Shield is probably the best move in the game. You cover a ton of options and shut out a lot of moves with a rotating barrier of four lemon substitutes, have an active hitbox while shielding and rolling, and get to take a Mega dump on characters with easy to read recoveries that don't take them very far (Looking at you, Falcon, Mario, etc).

It's easy to write it off at first as a move great against people without knowledge of the matchup, but look at the other side of the coin - once they know how it works, what can they really do against it safely?

Well to be fair, you never really use partially charged shots in Megaman games except by accident. It's either all or nothing.

If I remember right, in MegaMan 4 when the charge shot was first introduced, it's actually better to shoot the almost charged shot, as it does equivalent damage, comes out faster, and has a larger vertical hitbox. I've gotten very high mileage out of partially charged shots in Smash. I don't really appreciate all of this slamming the charge shot, sorry that it isn't the safest forward smash in the game. I use it as a follow up to a bair that sent my opponent far offstage but didn't kill them. Under no circumstance do I expect it to hit, but it does a good job controlling where they can go. MegaMan is a character very heavily reliant on reads, so to have a tool that helps make those reads easier is everything. At the very least, it's unintelligent to say that charge shot is a worse move than Flame Pillar.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Both dsmash and fsmash are very situational. Fsmash can be used with a little more liberty, however. That makes it a little better than dsmash.

 

[Tino]

The Leaf Shield does come in handy for a safe approach option for me and for attacking my opponent when I grab them instead of pummeling them. Other than those, I don't really use it that much due to its low startup.

 

[Megamang]

The Leaf Shield does come in handy for a safe approach option for me and for attacking my opponent when I grab them instead of pummeling them. Other than those, I don't really use it that much due to its low startup.

You should still pummel while the leaves hit for lots of damage. Mega can get a lot of damage this way. All four leaves hitting, one pummel, and bthrow is like 22 damage or more .

Also, consider that opponents will adapt to you if you always leafshield before a dashgrab attempt. Throwing the leaves occasionally means you'll keep them wondering each time you pull them out.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Generally mega man likes his opponents further away (so we can spam them). After several lead shield grabs the opponent will run away when you bring it up which helps to keep them off of you to avoid the grab.

 

[Tino]

You should still pummel while the leaves hit for lots of damage. Mega can get a lot of damage this way. All four leaves hitting, one pummel, and bthrow is like 22 damage or more .

This never occurred to me. I should try that sometime, then.

 

[Kronos2560]

Mega Man only has one move that sucks, his fsmash, which still has some use in certain matchups.