Lacking Motivation

[pooch182]

Hey everybody,

Here's a basic introduction to who I am so my thread has a bit of context behind it. My name is Pooch, and I've been watching the competitive scene for over a year now, but I started attending tourneys in late January of this year. At first, I was only interested in playing Melee, but I discovered PM at my second tourney, and loved how new and different it felt.

I went from being consistently the 0-2 33rd place scrub to the guy who has an upset here and there but places either 13th or 17th at every tourney in both games. This came through an intense drive and passion to succeed, and routine practice and study that sharpened my abilities to both execute inputs properly as well as analyze and adapt to my opponents in the middle of my sets. For about over a month now, I've been stuck in a rut. My placements haven't gotten better, and I find myself struggling to take games off of certain characters and players, mainly due to a mental block that keeps me from playing very confident. I can't seem to consistently play fast and aggressive, which is the style I originally started playing with, and I find myself falling back and over-using missiles in my neutral game out of a fear of technical mistakes on my end.

My routine practice hasn't really changed much: 30 minutes of movement practice, 30 minutes of match up study, at least 3 times a week, every week. The in game practice is only Melee due to my lack of a Wii and PM, so there may be an inherent issue there. My question to you all is, what can I do to improve my confidence when playing? I know Samus' limits off stage, and I know how to close out a stock, but something about me just won't allow me to go out and consistently do these things. What sort of mindset do I need to be having in practice and in tournament in order to keep that passion and drive for success burning and pointing in the right direction?

I apologize if this is a rather vague and subjective thread that I'm asking answers to, but I find that it helps me to write out the issues and read them over, and I also would love to hear any opinions you might have that could help me reach an epiphany of sorts. Thanks for any and all feedback, it's very much appreciated.

 

[ES Lite]

If you want to start placing, there are several things you need to implement in your mindset/playstyle that otherwise will leave you susceptible to losing to players that you'd think you can beat.

1. Confidence makes you choke less. Practice = confidence
I think you understand this, but are you practicing the correct things? With every character there are certain techs that will literally carry you thru brackets. Should you mess up these techs, good players will punish you, HARD. This is extremely important; you need to be able to missile cancel perfectly on muscle memory so you can focus on trumping your opponents strategy. As samus I think the techs you should have down with 100% consistency are:
- missile canceling
- grabbing the ledge via backward wavedash
-ledge hop SHFFLed Fair (follow up with b-up to avoid shield grabs, otherwise you should follow up with jab cancels on shields, dtilt in low percents, Dsmash in higher percents)
-Wavelanding (you definitely dont want to airdodge instead of wavelanding, that costs you valuable time and can set you up for a crazy punish)
-Essentials, such as L canceling. Pretty self explanatory, but if you can't maneuver around the stage wavelanding, wavedashing, l canceling, ledge cancelling, and missile cancelling frame perfect, you aren't cut out for high meta play.

Confidence helps you choke less, naturally. The way you play with 4 stocks should be the way you play with 1, for the most part.

2. Mindset
In every set, your mindset should be something along the lines of, "I have the potential to win, should I outsmart my opponent and/or capitalize on his mistakes." Notice how that statement never mentions the fact that you WILL win against the worst player, or you WILL lose to the best player. This game is a strategy game as much as it is a fighting game; if you have the upperhand of being in your opponent's head, you SHOULD be able to win. From that point onwards, it's your techskill that will carry out the reads that you're thinking of.
Throughout the set, you absolutely need to maintain this because you HAVE to work around your opponent's strategies. Sure, some games you can literally missile spam and your opponent won't know what to do, and that can get you the win. Great, but when the tables turned, it's almost impossible to ignore the fact that you have to outsmart your opponents every second of the game. Its exhausting mentally, but necessary for high meta play.

3. Knowledge
Extremely, extremely important. One character will have no option against samus's nair edgeguard. Other matchups, however, will leave you being able to never use nair. Unless you know this for EVERY character, there will be a time where you go up against someone, and you are left in the dark. This is the absolute worst, how are you suppose to know Squirtle's side b clanks with samus's crawl tilt? Missiles dont effect squirtle's side b, and I remember this happened when I was facing Wombat, who is a very respectable player, but someone who I thought I could beat, seeing as I did before. Facing this situation, I had no idea what to do, and the match literally amounted to me running away while he kept using side b. If you don't know matchups, you're forced to experiment, in a tournament set. A huge no no.

I hope this helps you a bit, of course experience is the best remedy for your problem, but when youre in the lab experimenting, I feel like you should focus on these three things. I see you said you study matchups, but you should focus on what certain characters can do against samus, and asking questions based on those things. If you hate wario's side b, ask someone which of samus's move have more priority than wario's side b. Otherwise, how will you know yourself? You can try experimenting by yourself, but just save yourself the trouble and ask the right people. Go on other boards, lurk more.

 

[Kaysick]

If you hate wario's side b, ask someone which of samus's move have more priority than wario's side b. Otherwise, how will you know yourself?

I know this is a hypothetical question, but nair actually beats Wario's Side B.

I really do appreciate the time that you put into writing that up. It helped me out most at the "Mindset" part of it. That's something that's tough for me.

 

[ES Lite]

No problem man. It is important to note, however, that if a wario is on a platform above you (which most of the time, he will, if he wants to side b) there is a risk-reward dilemma to consider between nair and shielding. Your nair hitbox has to safely hit Wario's shoulder dash hitbox, which is kinda like getting a "tipper" off. Side b's trajectory is weird tho, most of the time I'll resort to shielding in hopes of a grab punish or something out of Wavedash OoS. Fair beats out shoulder dash too, and I think ice fair and usmash do too.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Seeing as it's a subjective question, I can't give you a definite answer. You know that. But what I can tell you is that you should just go out and do your best. If you feel like you're going to lose a game already, try something out. It might work. Also, I find that if your opponent notices you don't catch on to something very well, they exploit it. So that's also a way to learn. Maybe you should practice with others instead of by yourself? After reading some of your posts, you seem pretty knowledgeable. You'll get around it eventually.

Or, pick up another character who can cover Samus' weak points. Good luck!

 

[Page Won]

Or, pick up another character who can cover Samus' weak points. Good luck!

Hmm, good point, what what be a good backup character, or I guess, what are these weak points that another character can cover?

 

[Avro-Arrow]

@ Page Won
IMO, Samus doesn't deal well with characters that pressure too well or bypass projectiles quickly. You've started a really nice conversation. I'd like to hear other people's inputs as well.

Samus beats other campy characters. She beats floaties as well. Except Jigglypuff (if they know how to use Rest like Hungrybox), and of course M2 (who, imo possibly has no even matchups and certainly no negative matchups). Perhaps someone fast might fit the bill. I'd say Diddy, M2 or Lucas, but I don't want people jumping on their bandwagon. They're not cool.

Really, you have a lot of options because Samus handles most people really well. She beats Link, even with Pit, not bad against the top 3, etc.

If you want to change pace in best of 3s switching from Samus to maybe Sonic or Fox or even Mario can really throw them off. Especially if the character is obscure. Choose someone who does well on stages Samus doesn't, so you can take them off guard after stage bans.

Oh! ZSS! Obscure, really quick and vastly different from Samus. Does well on stages like WW and Yoshi's Story where I don't think Samus does the best. What's your opinion (matchups you don't like with Samus, preferences of characters eg fast, floaty, etc.)? Maybe I can help you

I play so many characters it's hard to just settle on a main.

 

[pooch182]

This info doesn't really make much sense to me. Samus tends to do rather well against characters that pressure, because her OoS game is great, with UpSmash, UpB, and Nair all being viable depending on the situation.

Samus actually tends to struggle with characters that have big disjoints and great grabs. Characters like the FE characters, typically Marth, or Falcon can really put a hurtin' on us. In Melee, Sheik could approach effectively with just run up shield, and Samus can suffer hard after getting grabbed.

Honestly, I feel that with the tools Samus has now, she can handle every character pretty well. I genuinely think that committing all of your effort into training her as your main would lead to the most benefit.

I've played around with other characters, and sometimes it's nice to have a more reliable grab game, but otherwise Samus is just the best choice for most categories. DK is an underappreciated character, and if you want to be at the forefront of developing a character's meta, he's got a lot of room to grow.

Just play with Samus for a while and see which match ups you tend to struggle with. Then, you've got all of us here on the boards to discuss with, and if you still can't win with Samus, you've at least got an idea of what weaknesses you need to cover.

 

[Litt]

This info doesn't really make much sense to me. Samus tends to do rather well against characters that pressure, because her OoS game is great, with UpSmash, UpB, and Nair all being viable depending on the situation.

Samus actually tends to struggle with characters that have big disjoints and great grabs. Characters like the FE characters, typically Marth, or Falcon can really put a hurtin' on us. In Melee, Sheik could approach effectively with just run up shield, and Samus can suffer hard after getting grabbed.

Honestly, I feel that with the tools Samus has now, she can handle every character pretty well. I genuinely think that committing all of your effort into training her as your main would lead to the most benefit.

I've played around with other characters, and sometimes it's nice to have a more reliable grab game, but otherwise Samus is just the best choice for most categories. DK is an underappreciated character, and if you want to be at the forefront of developing a character's meta, he's got a lot of room to grow.

Just play with Samus for a while and see which match ups you tend to struggle with. Then, you've got all of us here on the boards to discuss with, and if you still can't win with Samus, you've at least got an idea of what weaknesses you need to cover.

Falcon... just go in morph ball entire match and CC downsmash, Sheik just constantly throw out jabs (jab canceling read the melee guide same in PM), marth space zairs and ftilts....

 

[pooch182]

Falcon... just go in morph ball entire match and CC downsmash, Sheik just constantly throw out jabs (jab canceling read the melee guide same in PM), marth space zairs and ftilts....

I understand all of this, Barbie. I was more bringing up match ups that Samus struggled with in Melee. I brought up that she's got plenty of new tools that change these match ups to be manageable/favorable, but I guess it wasn't properly communicated. I apologize for that, and also thank you for reinforcing the idea that Samus can deal with most MUs.

 

[Litt]

I understand all of this, Barbie. I was more bringing up match ups that Samus struggled with in Melee. I brought up that she's got plenty of new tools that change these match ups to be manageable/favorable, but I guess it wasn't properly communicated. I apologize for that, and also thank you for reinforcing the idea that Samus can deal with most MUs.

I agree samus had trouble with falcon, but with proper DI, falcon isnt horrible, and with good spacing and neutral marth isnt either, sheik and puff were honestly the worst

 

[Page Won]

@ Page Won
What's your opinion (matchups you don't like with Samus, preferences of characters eg fast, floaty, etc.)? Maybe I can help you

Well I'll just bring up one that I find difficult, Mario, he may not be the hardest matchup, but that cape though...

 

[Avro-Arrow]

@ pooch182 Well, maybe I was thinking more of melee when I said she doesn't deal well with pressure (no rolls limits options). In PM she kills the spacies, but diddy, m2 and lucas have too safe approaches for her to win the matchup.

She does have a lot of benefits though; that's why she's my PM main on my picture. For secondaries, it's more of finding someone who covers your weak spots.

 

[Litt]

@ pooch182 Well, maybe I was thinking more of melee when I said she doesn't deal well with pressure (no rolls limits options). In PM she kills the spacies, but diddy, m2 and lucas have too safe approaches for her to win the matchup.

She does have a lot of benefits though; that's why she's my PM main on my picture. For secondaries, it's more of finding someone who covers your weak spots.

Sorry bud, you couldnt be more wrong here. She is literally one of the best characters in the cast to deal with pressure... In PM she does worse against Fox than in melee, and diddy is not a bad match up by any means. M2 does not have safe approaches either... and all lukas can do is spam side b, which in most cases you can powershield, zair through, or roll under.... don't talk about match ups like you know what you are talking about, simply inquire about them so people dont shut you down like this

 

[pooch182]

While I agree with you about her ability to effectively deal with pressure, I also don't get why you say that she does worse against Fox in PM.

To me, we've been given stronger tools like UpSmash to deal with Fox, and he hasn't been given anything to deal with us. We can zair him to keep him out, his shine doesn't always win now, obvious OoS options still remain viable for us, etc. Maybe you're talking about how easy it is to cover Brawl tether, but that's sort of irrelevant when you look at how well she does in the neutral game.

 

[Litt]

While I agree with you about her ability to effectively deal with pressure, I also don't get why you say that she does worse against Fox in PM.

To me, we've been given stronger tools like UpSmash to deal with Fox, and he hasn't been given anything to deal with us. We can zair him to keep him out, his shine doesn't always win now, obvious OoS options still remain viable for us, etc. Maybe you're talking about how easy it is to cover Brawl tether, but that's sort of irrelevant when you look at how well she does in the neutral game.

how she does in the neutral game? cmon bud, I play fox's like swiftbass... slox... even ****ing hax every once and a while, and if you throw out an upsmash, you can expect an sDI out of the up smash, and then you receiving a fully charged up right up your ass back from fox. Upsmash is a huge commitment, and ive seen some of the foxes you have played against, and they are free wins. Zair is also a huge commitment, fox shields, wd OoS and continues laser pressure, or goes in for a grab. Dont forget fox tech is also much easier in this game as well, so the quality of a mid level fox in melee would be a high level one in PM tech skill wise, and you have the potential of going up against a super technical fox, which is literally samus's worst nightmare. Samus can't even shffmc in this game, or fast fall missile off platforms before she lands, which makes her stay grounded against the faster characters. Its just my experience that fox is more difficult to deal with in this game than in melee, despite me playing identical in neutral, so something has to have changed. Even in morphball, you cant cc downsmash fox's drill shines, you just have a large disjoint nair, a shorter wavedash (not sure if this was confirmed or not, but always has seemed slightly shorter to me), and a larger lunkier frame from brawl that makes her an easier targer when in the air.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Sorry bud, you couldnt be more wrong here. She is literally one of the best characters in the cast to deal with pressure... In PM she does worse against Fox than in melee, and diddy is not a bad match up by any means. M2 does not have safe approaches either... and all lukas can do is spam side b, which in most cases you can powershield, zair through, or roll under.... don't talk about match ups like you know what you are talking about, simply inquire about them so people dont shut you down like this

Honestly I quite like the Samus spacie MU. Samus has set ups into kills at 70%

 

[Litt]

Honestly I quite like the Samus spacie MU. Samus has set ups into kills at 70%

Samus has set ups to kill from 0 lol, just have to do them right

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Sorry, yeah, I meant that the set ups I use kill at 70... sometimes way less against someone like Fox on FD (sooo fun)

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Also, I feel like her some of her set ups become DI-able after 70 on spacies, but still possible. They just take more intuition?

 

[Litt]

Also, I feel like her some of her set ups become DI-able after 70 on spacies, but still possible. They just take more intuition?

I mean... yeah, its like Marth can kill samus at like 60% on FoD with a tipper FSmash, but that will also kill at 130 as well. But it will just be a lot harder to get that tipper when samus flies away with every single little bump marth tries to touch samus with when she is at 130, unlike at lower percents when marth can juggle samus into a stronger attack, just like with samus on spacies, past 70ish%, jabs, ftitls, fairs, ect... are going to push them too far away to link many other attacks, so you are going to want to push them off stage for an edge guard, or whatever set up you want to do to take that stock

 

[Phantomarchangel]

Motivation is a hard to to keep up especially during a difficult match where you're at a disadvantage or messing up here and there. Frustration builds as the match goes and you can screw up even more which causes a death spiral down to failed-ledge-tech-free deathville xD One important thing to remember is that your opponent is struggling to do the same thing during the match. Everyone makes mistakes but comebacks are common place in pro tournaments because they can keep their mind straight and focused.

I love the feedback everyone has given so far. I think it's important to note that although samus might have natural enemies that are more difficult to fight it's all still mainly up to the player. Some players an handle natural counters better than people they actually counter themselves. All it takes is knowing your opponent and finding their rythm and capaitlizing on it.

 

[Litt]

Motivation is a hard to to keep up especially during a difficult match where you're at a disadvantage or messing up here and there. Frustration builds as the match goes and you can screw up even more which causes a death spiral down to failed-ledge-tech-free deathville xD One important thing to remember is that your opponent is struggling to do the same thing during the match. Everyone makes mistakes but comebacks are common place in pro tournaments because they can keep their mind straight and focused.

I love the feedback everyone has given so far. I think it's important to note that although samus might have natural enemies that are more difficult to fight it's all still mainly up to the player. Some players an handle natural counters better than people they actually counter themselves. All it takes is knowing your opponent and finding their rythm and capaitlizing on it.

Thank you for those inspiring words