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[LAB] Rest as a counter move

Stickmanlolz

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I know that we can use rest in order to counter some multi-hit jabs ex::4fox:, :4littlemac:, :4sheik:
But I was wondering how many moves can be interrupted with a well timed rest?
So far:Sonic spindash
As I really do not have other people to help me in my local area I'm hoping you guys can assist me.
 

Stickmanlolz

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Link's fsmash can be countered, but it's a very specific hitconfirm. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxGdYdAFfg
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of stuff that can clutch a win in a tournament match.
I also know that Jigglypuff's Rollout can be rested, many other attacks Seem to have the ability to be rested such as :4ganondorf:, and :4kirby:'s dash attacks.
Or specials like :4luigi:, and:4charizard:'s side special

I will have my friend at my house today, perhaps I could convince him to help me research if these and other attacks could be rest countered.
 

Kojii

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Shulk's upsmash can be interrupted with rest in between the first and second hit.
(before the actual launch)
But only before 64% or so, after that, shulk has too much rage for you to be able to act out of the first hit.
 

I AKU I

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There is already a thread out there with a list of multi-hit moves that Jiggs can interrupt with rest. I don't think it is complete, but you can find it here: http://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-moves-rest-can-interrupt.414813/

But to answer your broader question, I believe any non-disjointed attack can be countered with a well-timed rest because of the intangibility frames. I've managed to pull off rest against some dash attacks, a few character's dairs, Falcon's raptor boost, and even Fox's up-B.

However, I wouldn't recommend using rest as a counter in competitive play against any move that doesn't require major commitment. I mean yea, you can rest Sonic's SD, but he has the option to jump out of his SD. I'd feel comfortable resting against a Jiggs using rollout, but not against a Sonic using SD for this exact reason.

Basically, I only rest "counter" something relatively safe if I have little respect for my opponent and know that that they are just throwing out attacks. The raptor boost thing could be useful because you can rest on reaction if Falcon is more than a few steps away, and you know he is committed to finishing that move. Rest against any dive dair/down-b could also be useful if your opponent gets careless. Otherwise, the only other situation where I think it makes sense to rest are multi hit moves where the first hit or two has low hitstun & knockback.

Seems like the other posters figured this out which is probably why they are mentioning things like Shulk's Usmash. I think you might be able to land a rest off of other multi hit smashes with proper positioning and DI. (Sheik's, ZSS's and Bowser Jr's Fsmashes come to mind for me) I'm pretty sure you can also rest counter DK's annoying custom up-B since I can interrupt it with Sheik's Uair. These moves might not exactly be ones that you can rest counter; probably more like moves where you can slip out after the first hit and punish with rest.
 
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Stickmanlolz

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There is already a thread out there with a list of multi-hit moves that Jiggs can interrupt with rest. I don't think it is complete, but you can find it here: http://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-moves-rest-can-interrupt.414813/

But to answer your broader question, I believe any non-disjointed attack can be countered with a well-timed rest because of the intangibility frames. I've managed to pull off rest against some dash attacks, a few character's dairs, Falcon's raptor boost, and even Fox's up-B.

However, I wouldn't recommend using rest as a counter in competitive play against any move that doesn't require major commitment. I mean yea, you can rest Sonic's SD, but he has the option to jump out of his SD. I'd feel comfortable resting against a Jiggs using rollout, but not against a Sonic using SD for this exact reason.

Basically, I only rest "counter" something relatively safe if I have little respect for my opponent and know that that they are just throwing out attacks. The raptor boost thing could be useful because you can rest on reaction if Falcon is more than a few steps away, and you know he is committed to finishing that move. Rest against any dive dair/down-b could also be useful if your opponent gets careless. Otherwise, the only other situation where I think it makes sense to rest are multi hit moves where the first hit or two has low hitstun & knockback.

Seems like the other posters figured this out which is probably why they are mentioning things like Shulk's Usmash. I think you might be able to land a rest off of other multi hit smashes with proper positioning and DI. (Sheik's, ZSS's and Bowser Jr's Fsmashes come to mind for me) I'm pretty sure you can also rest counter DK's annoying custom up-B since I can interrupt it with Sheik's Uair. These moves might not exactly be ones that you can rest counter; probably more like moves where you can slip out after the first hit and punish with rest.
I already know about that thread and that there are moves that can be rested due to invincibility frames on pure reaction. I made this thread in order to compile EXACTLY each and every attack that can be rested by pure reaction. Eventhough it is not very safe at all these are the reasons I made the thread 1.larger hitbox for rest makes the technique more relevant and likely to hit 2.Rest lasts for 3 frames, although this is not very long it is still better than some attacks that last for just one frame (down smash?) 3.Punish opponents who throw out a counter restable move often (especially if the move happens to be a characters B&B). I probably should have made this clear from the start.
 

Kalierdarke

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I have personally rest countered Bowser Bomb, sonic's spin dash, Zelda's Faore's Wind, Rollout, :4bowserjr:'s :GCR::GCB:, yoshi's ground pound, Falcon Punch(although it's much easier to just duck under it and hit :GCB: as it's above us if we're on the ground), Flare Blitz(one of the harder ones), and falco's :GCU::GCB:(haven't landed it on fox but should be just as easy.)

Falcon Punch, as I mentioned, is usually just easier to duck under rather than trying to directlly counter it, spindash and clown car dash can be good to rest counter once if you know your opponent isn't expecting it, but past that it's too risky. Bowser Bomb and flare blitz don't attempt unless you're absolutely sure you can get the timing down. Yoshi's ground pound is also dangerous to try rest countering but it requires a little higher % before it'll KO.

Zelda is also a tricky one to try and rest counter as if she fakes you out and doesn't teleport at you, gg. otherwise,


you should be able to counter KO punch too but it's bound to be trickier.

Don't try countering Shoryuken, both puff and Ryu have invincibility frames so Ryu will live, but you'll still die thanks to the endlag. Or maybe Ryu has super armor, I forget if the startup frame is invincibility or armor, either way you won't kill him trying to counter Shoryuken.


As mentioned, most likely any attack without a disjoint can be countered with rest as long as you know the timing.
 
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Kojii

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Rested PKThunder2 yesterday, offstage B)
 

Stickmanlolz

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I have personally rest countered Bowser Bomb, sonic's spin dash, Zelda's Faore's Wind, Rollout, :4bowserjr:'s :GCR::GCB:, yoshi's ground pound, Falcon Punch(although it's much easier to just duck under it and hit :GCB: as it's above us if we're on the ground), Flare Blitz(one of the harder ones), and falco's :GCU::GCB:(haven't landed it on fox but should be just as easy.)

Falcon Punch, as I mentioned, is usually just easier to duck under rather than trying to directlly counter it, spindash and clown car dash can be good to rest counter once if you know your opponent isn't expecting it, but past that it's too risky. Bowser Bomb and flare blitz don't attempt unless you're absolutely sure you can get the timing down. Yoshi's ground pound is also dangerous to try rest countering but it requires a little higher % before it'll KO.

Zelda is also a tricky one to try and rest counter as if she fakes you out and doesn't teleport at you, gg. otherwise,


you should be able to counter KO punch too but it's bound to be trickier.

Don't try countering Shoryuken, both puff and Ryu have invincibility frames so Ryu will live, but you'll still die thanks to the endlag. Or maybe Ryu has super armor, I forget if the startup frame is invincibility or armor, either way you won't kill him trying to counter Shoryuken.


As mentioned, most likely any attack without a disjoint can be countered with rest as long as you know the timing.
All of this, is just fantastic thank you for the info (havent had the time to lab) btw: that gif was saved x1000
 

Kojii

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Works once in a blue moon
 

Stickmanlolz

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Works once in a blue moon
the the techchnique is great for scaring sheiks and ZSS' who try to kill us off the top. I was getting bodied on For Glory by a sheik after Counter resting their up air they became slightly more fearful of me(not by much though I was at like 90% on my last stock at that time)
 
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