KOS-MOS Returning to Battle: DLC Season 2.

KarneraMythos · Apr 24, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
So, Sakurai's figure collection!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

What are the chances Sakurai DOES NOT have one of these? https://myfigurecollection.net/entry/1871

Point is that KOS-MOS has many figures and also let's not forget KOS-MOS RE is getting a figure as well.

What could this mean? Anything really... it's just speculation but I know KOS-MOS is really popular figurines wise. Sakurai works at Bamco.... i'd really be shocked if he did not have one laying around. But..... Pyra/Mythra also have released figurines but they are spirits... hmmmm

>zooms in on collection
>can just barely make out details

Also, that Link figma is low-key dabbing. Would have been funny if Sakurai accidentally revealed one of the new fighters in his not-fully-shown figure collection.

Nonno Umby · May 8, 2019

Hi everyone, please add me as a Kos-Mos supporter. While my most wanted new Xeno rep is Elma, if she can't make in I would gladly take Kos-Mos since she looks very promising and unique from what I could see in XC2.

Flyboy · May 8, 2019

Elma and KOS-MOS gangs unite! Love this.

DarkAuraful · May 8, 2019

Nonno Umby said:
Hi everyone, please add me as a Kos-Mos supporter. While my most wanted new Xeno rep is Elma, if she can't make in I would gladly take Kos-Mos since she looks very promising and unique from what I could see in XC2.

Welcome to the KOS MOS fam. That's how everyone's gonna know they're in the supporter for now on. Well, mine at least. XD

Hey look we're at 70 supporters now!

Erotic&Heretic · May 8, 2019

I may not be a Xeno series fan (I only played Xenoblade Chronicles 1 so far) but I somehow want and expect Kos-Mos. I don't really know why but I feel like she fits perfectly in what we know so far about the fighter pass, and she could go along Shulk as a xeno rep, while still representing her own games.

ES. Dinah · May 8, 2019

Very glad to see people posting! 70 supporters is pretty awesome!

Nonno Umby said:
Hi everyone, please add me as a Kos-Mos supporter. While my most wanted new Xeno rep is Elma, if she can't make in I would gladly take Kos-Mos since she looks very promising and unique from what I could see in XC2.

Yeah, I want KOS-MOS more but Elma would just be the next best thing for me especially since Fiora is ruled out.

Erotic&Heretic said:
I may not be a Xeno series fan (I only played Xenoblade Chronicles 1 so far) but I somehow want and expect Kos-Mos. I don't really know why but I feel like she fits perfectly in what we know so far about the fighter pass, and she could go along Shulk as a xeno rep, while still representing her own games.

Xenoblade is also amazing! Much less philosophical but I still really enjoyed the characters and references to Saga and Gears. And yep, I somehow do expect her too. She's popping up in so many conversation circles for smash these days. Obviously she still has opponents but who knows because there could be tons of fighter spaces. Since we know spirits are not getting fighters at this point then yeah I have always said the same that KOS-MOS is mysteriously not a spirit!

Erotic&Heretic · May 9, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
Xenoblade is also amazing! Much less philosophical but I still really enjoyed the characters and references to Saga and Gears. And yep, I somehow do expect her too. She's popping up in so many conversation circles for smash these days. Obviously she still has opponents but who knows because there could be tons of fighter spaces. Since we know spirits are not getting fighters at this point then yeah I have always said the same that KOS-MOS is mysteriously not a spirit!

Well, no Kos-Mos as a spirit doesn't really surprise me, although the XC2 blade could have been in the game for sure. What makes me believe in this potential is mostly speculation, but we do know how Sakurai loves Xenoblade (and therefore probably the other Xeno games) and while Xenosaga doesn't feel like a that well known game to me (compared to really big names we have as guests), it does have a cult status, and so do Kos-Mos. This fits in the "the DLCs will be surprising characters" narrative IMO.

Smasherfan88 · May 12, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
So, Sakurai's figure collection!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

What are the chances Sakurai DOES NOT have one of these? https://myfigurecollection.net/entry/1871

Point is that KOS-MOS has many figures and also let's not forget KOS-MOS RE is getting a figure as well.

What could this mean? Anything really... it's just speculation but I know KOS-MOS is really popular figurines wise. Sakurai works at Bamco.... i'd really be shocked if he did not have one laying around. But..... Pyra/Mythra also have released figurines but they are spirits... hmmmm

Honestly I wouldn't dig too much into Sakurai's figure collection to determine future fighters, it's kinda stretching things a bit too far.

Like how some people thought a purple chair = Waluigi or a pillow design = Skull Kid.

But it's nice to know that Sakurai uses figures as a comparison of sorts.

Also apparently the rumors about Nintendo reviving a third party IP has some people thinking we're getting a Xenosaga Trilogy Remake or something. I'd like that personally since it'd mean obtaining the games without having to pay 70+ USD for each of them on Amazon would have a new, probably cheaper alternative other than emulation.

KatKit · May 12, 2019

As far as support groups go, I frequent the Elma thread a lot. Unsurprisingly, I see a couple of familiar faces on this very page, haha. It helps that Xenoblade X and Xenosaga are different takes on the same basic idea ~~and Elma's true form is a Kos-mos Easter egg~~ ; on at least one occasion, I've mentioned that I consider this a sister support group. With that being said, I also support Kos-mos (obviously); I'm kinda surprised I haven't posted here sooner. As far as movesets go, she'd bring quite a bit to the table. Here's hoping for a T-elos palette swap.

DarkAuraful · May 12, 2019

KatKit said:
As far as support groups go, I frequent the Elma thread a lot. Unsurprisingly, I see a couple of familiar faces on this very page, haha. It helps that Xenoblade X and Xenosaga are different takes on the same basic idea ~~and Elma's true form is a Kos-mos Easter egg~~ ; on at least one occasion, I've mentioned that I consider this a sister support group. With that being said, I also support Kos-mos (obviously); I'm kinda surprised I haven't posted here sooner. As far as movesets go, she'd bring quite a bit to the table. Here's hoping for a T-elos palette swap.

Welcome to the KOS MOS fam

ES. Dinah · May 13, 2019

Smasherfan88 said:
Honestly I wouldn't dig too much into Sakurai's figure collection to determine future fighters, it's kinda stretching things a bit too far.

Like how some people thought a purple chair = Waluigi or a pillow design = Skull Kid.

But it's nice to know that Sakurai uses figures as a comparison of sorts.

Also apparently the rumors about Nintendo reviving a third party IP has some people thinking we're getting a Xenosaga Trilogy Remake or something. I'd like that personally since it'd mean obtaining the games without having to pay 70+ USD for each of them on Amazon would have a new, probably cheaper alternative other than emulation.

I mean, I was just speculating honestly since KOS-MOS is very popular in the figurines market... maybe Sakurai has her laying around somewhere

Also rumours? Are they the same ones from awhile back? I'm pretty sure that was a "officially dead cancelled game" Xenosaga may have not had developments but if it were cancelled I believe KOS-MOS wouldn't be showing up ever again.

KatKit said:
As far as support groups go, I frequent the Elma thread a lot. Unsurprisingly, I see a couple of familiar faces on this very page, haha. It helps that Xenoblade X and Xenosaga are different takes on the same basic idea ~~and Elma's true form is a Kos-mos Easter egg~~ ; on at least one occasion, I've mentioned that I consider this a sister support group. With that being said, I also support Kos-mos (obviously); I'm kinda surprised I haven't posted here sooner. As far as movesets go, she'd bring quite a bit to the table. Here's hoping for a T-elos palette swap.

I'm really glad to have you! Any Elma fan is one of us... or Xeno fan in general!

Grimel · May 13, 2019

Would be nice to have another Xeno character in Smash. Either KOS-MOS or Elma. So hard to decide. :estatic:

Smasherfan88 · May 18, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
I mean, I was just speculating honestly since KOS-MOS is very popular in the figurines market... maybe Sakurai has her laying around somewhere

Also rumours? Are they the same ones from awhile back? I'm pretty sure that was a "officially dead cancelled game" Xenosaga may have not had developments but if it were cancelled I believe KOS-MOS wouldn't be showing up ever again.

I'm really glad to have you! Any Elma fan is one of us... or Xeno fan in general!

Fair, fair. It'd be cool that he did, I'm honestly hoping I have a hundred or two to spare so I can get myself one of the possible T-elos and KOS-MOS figurines. But uh... yeah you're right, those rumors were specifically cancelled games, my bad ,my brain derped out on me.

Also I actually bought Project X Zone 1 and 2 recently due to remembering KOS-MOS and T-elos were in them, with 2 having Fiora and Metal Face/Mumkhar thrown into the mix. Haven't gotten into 2 yet, and I've yet to add KOS-MOS to my party in 1, but I've seen the scenes of Metal Face and T-elos in 2 and I honestly find it a bit humorous the two almost act like friends. Regardless I find them quite fun so far, I find it a shame though the people behind the series has since left Monolith Soft since I would've loved to see a third game on the switch with a bit more of the Xeno series than just Fiora and Mumkhar being added. Basically like adding in Elma as a solo unit and seeming as the Xeno-series representation likes to ignore the 'main/lead character/player avatar' i.e. Shion and Shulk I could see Poppi being added to represent two with potentially either Jin or Malos joining with her. Though to even it out with Fiora she'd have to be paired with someone else or they just bring Shulk in breaking that previous pattern I noticed or just Dunban.

I'd pair them up as basically:

KOS-MOS & Poppi

Fiora & Whoever/Shulk/Dunban

Maybe T-elos & Malos/Jin

Solo Unit:

Elma

Villains:

T-elos

Metal Face (Assuming he doesn't die during Project X Zone 2, haven't stared it yet).

Malos/Jin

Though if they were to make T-elos a playable party member again but couldn't partner her up with KOS-MOS I suppose Malos or Jin could work as a partner for her, mostly Malos though. That said I feel like Malos would fit the villain or villain turned party member better than Jin a bit more. But this is all hypothetical if they ever make a Project X Zone 3 for the Switch.

Wait why am I rambling about Project X Zone in a Smash Bros. Forum even if it slightly relates to the character tied to this thread?

KarneraMythos · Jun 1, 2019

After a long hiatus, I finally have a little content for all supporters who own a copy of Smash Ultimate. Custom Stages! Before you is the Woglinde Hangar from the first Xenosaga, with picture references of how I made the stage, as well as a gameplay video to demonstrate the stage in action!

I played with a couple of my friends in a stream. I have plenty more stages from other games, but it'll be a long ways until I compile everything neatly.

Next up is KOS-MOS herself, using my personal favorite iteration of her, the Version 4 model. This one was very difficult to produce, biggest hurdle being that we can't form solid shapes inside of other larger shapes without the details being warped into an incoherent mess. To make sense of that, the minimalistic approach to the face was done for practical reasons, as attempting eye details just gives me distorted shapes instead.

I wish I could do more. Hell, I made the Vector Industries logo at first, but it covered way too much and the platforms just weren't ideal to fight on. Form follows function, and you can't have function without fun.

__kos_mos_and_kos_mos_ver_4_xenosaga_episode_iii_and_etc_drawn_by_choco__414e1089663888c047620...png

Once again, this stage also has a gameplay video to accompany it!

Funny thing about the character selection by the way... Snake, Ridley, and R.O.B. each represent something. I'll let you guys figure out the connection.

I have plans to make another stage, this time based on her Re appearance. I'll probably make the Kukai Foundation and the Merkabah as well, but time will tell when that happens. I want to focus on my signature and makes stages for my other Most-Wanted characters.

I hope you all enjoy what I have produced here. Happy Smashing, and although things are looking rough with the massive amount of attention other characters are getting, fret not! Nothing holds a community together stronger than sheer will and determination. Whether or not we get KOS-MOS in Smash will not deter my involvement on here.

ES. Dinah · Jun 2, 2019

KarneraMythos thanks for creating that amazing content. I am glad you will be making her Re version and even Kukai and Merkabah! The stages look really good! The KOS-MOS one is really nice to have too! Also, it means a lot that you wont abandon support for her if she doesn't get in. Thanks, really glad to have you

As for the connection.... here's my best guess. KOS-MOS is an android (ROB), Snake is a weapons expert like KOS-MOS, And Ridley is a dragon and KOS-MOS's blade she uses in episode III is called Dragon tooth. Not sure if I'm right though!

Also, since Harada's promotion is potentially huge for greenlighting a Xenosaga remaster, I think things are looking pretty good for KOS-MOS not just in smash but maybe to have a HD port of Xenosaga. Let's hope for something this E3.

KarneraMythos · Jun 2, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
KarneraMythos thanks for creating that amazing content. I am glad you will be making her Re version and even Kukai and Merkabah! The stages look really good! The KOS-MOS one is really nice to have too! Also, it means a lot that you wont abandon support for her if she doesn't get in. Thanks, really glad to have you

As for the connection.... here's my best guess. KOS-MOS is an android (ROB), Snake is a weapons expert like KOS-MOS, And Ridley is a dragon and KOS-MOS's blade she uses in episode III is called Dragon tooth. Not sure if I'm right though!

Also, since Harada's promotion is potentially huge for greenlighting a Xenosaga remaster, I think things are looking pretty good for KOS-MOS not just in smash but maybe to have a HD port of Xenosaga. Let's hope for something this E3.

I am very flattered to hear that! I should be posting here more often again, and I will once I finish an long intensive project. Sucks being plagued with Attention Deficit Creator Disorder @_@;;

Good guesses! I can see how all three of them relate to KOS-MOS in some way. However, that was not the intention. In fact, none of them have anything to do to with KOS-MOS herself. You can maaaybe attribute that to Mega Man for having a similar background to him, but ROB, Snake, and Ridley represent different kinds of entities that oppose KOS-MOS in some manner. What that is, I'll let you figure that out!

I am keeping my expectations at the lowest point, just in case nothing interesting crops up, but I'd be lying if I said my heart wasn't racing at the thought of that sweet-sweet trilogy remaster. Didn't Xenoblade 2 get a sales boost since that Mario Maker 2 Direct? Or am I wrong? The fact it was even one of the Switch's best sellers says a lot for it actually. I can see that being a proxy for Xenosaga's re-release, since the interest for Xeno lore in general is growing.

ES. Dinah · Jun 7, 2019

I still haven't figured it out yet, Karnera lol.

Anyhow, I thought I would update the thread with this very great recent article which is unfortunately not translated yet but a quick translate search shows some mentions of Xenosaga in it. Also, the interview is with Harada and Takahashi.... can't be a coincidence lol, I really think we are getting Xenosaga HD soon.

https://www.4gamer.net/games/368/G036837/20190416018/

Some broken translated parts of the interview I gathered

Mr. Harada:
　No, I like that. The "Xenosaga" I'd also seen in the trilogy, it places strong RPG, I guess I think that it can continue to remain in the heart of the work much the player is similar to the movie.
　Now that most of the titles I'm working on are focused on the overseas market, I have many opportunities to interact with the other community, but the fans of this "Zenosaga" series have a particularly strong move Even though it is not, I have always had expectations. But it seems like I don't know who to share that feeling with, especially from overseas fans, I started to tell me about six to seven years ago.

Mr. Takahashi:
　Yes, Mr. Harada has become a public contact.

4Gamer:
　Mr. Harada should do something! When.

Mr. Harada:
　That's right. It's also a movement like "Let's collect signatures and send them to Harada". I used to say, "One in ten thousand people are not good enough. If you can collect 100,000 people," I often returned, but such requests have been sent several times. Hmmm, hd, I've been talking about me because it is good even HD remaster.

4Gamer:
　Is that humble?

Mr. Harada:
　But every time I see that, I think it's "Good, RPG." In the case of 3D fighting games, people will not remain in the old numbering when a new game comes out!

Mr. Takahashi:
　One of the things I would like to ask Mr. Harada, is that okay?

Mr. Harada:
　Yes, of course. here you go.

Mr. Takahashi:
　JRPG-In this case, I will say JRPG, but what do you think is the limit of sales in this genre? In fact, I think about this all the time recently, but it is an image with a high wall at about 2 to 3 million in my own.

Mr. Harada:
　... Hmm, I have been in charge of worldwide marketing in the “Tales of” series, and now I am also the head of the division responsible for development and profit, but from the experience , I feel that there is the first high wall in the stage of million first.
　 In Japan, RPG has the image of "the game's royal road", but in the world market, JRPG has its own standing position. It would be surprising for Japanese, but in sales terms, fighting game titles like “Tekken” are far faster in terms of starting out. It is 2 million in 2 months of release, and 3 million in 1 year and 4 million in 2 years. If this is a JRPG, the first million walls will be surprisingly thick.

Takahashi:
　I've been searching for ways to cross that wall.

Mr. Harada:
　If there is a possibility ... For example, is the case of "Final Fantasy XV" * ? Whether it's an open world mechanism or graphics, isn't it a collection of modern technology? Western game players, especially American gamers, seem to be buzzing with such latest technology base, which could be a breakthrough. I think that technology is a keyword.

Takahashi:
　I think that's certainly an answer. But as a matter of fact the budget is limited and we have to find something that can be expressed in it. When you think that way, it is absolutely impossible to say how you can make it specialized for technology. I'm always worried that there is no hook to replace it.

4Gamer:
　For example, in Japan, characters, world views and unique visual expressions can not be hooks.

Mr. Harada:
　Certainly, when I ask Western developers, KOS-MOS or Noctis, that kind of character can't be created a bit easily for us, I just say it. However, there are two meanings, which are not necessarily just positive stories.

4Gamer:
　Two meanings?

Mr. Harada: It
　simply means "wow", but it also means "why this is it." Certainly the character is Japan's strength, but it can not reach the general public overseas as it is. Resounding to the core player, even if the world is common.
　However, as Mr. Takahashi says, if you try to move in the direction of technology, it will become a business talk. It is said that you can invest that much money as a company. But Mr. Monolith, hasn't it fixed its environment?

Sorry, just desperate when it comes to any Xenosaga mentions or KOS-MOS.... lol. So it appears that by this broken translation... Harada might be looking into Xenosaga HD with his promotion now like I predicted.... and he also thinks KOS-MOS is popular in Japan but not the West? I'm surprised Takahashi made no mention of redesigning KOS-MOS as Re though........ we need an accurate translation of this though!

KarneraMythos · Jun 7, 2019

Though rough, the translated interview in its current state definitely implies fondness for the character, and he mentions JRPGs apparently struggling to break the 1 million threshold. As we've seen with Xenoblade Chronicles 2, it definitely passed the stretch goal a while back, being close to 3/4 of 2 million in life-time sales.

There is also Namco's unnamed Switch titles for E3 according to this rumor, though I am out of the loop and I'm certain it could be fake. Doesn't mean Namco won't have a presence, but it's not necessarily dependent on what this rumor claims:

Nintendo Switch Dummy placeholder pages on Amazon UK: https://t.co/afhk4cOTFw

2x Nintendo Switch consoles
4x Namco titles
2x Nintendo Switch accessories
3x Warner titles
3x Ubisoft titles

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! 👀👀👀 pic.twitter.com/WidkeWRQHP
— Nintendeal (@Nintendeal) June 5, 2019

So basically, any of those Namco titles could very well be a Xenosaga Trilogy Remaster. Keep in mind however that back in the Dante support thread, we're all crossing our fingers at the possibility of Dante showing up in Smash with a confirmed Switch port to his name finally. The one obstacle is that the current pattern for left-field characters seem to be that we usually get them playable as they are before they even get a true Nintendo port.

Cloud and Joker are great examples since they both only ever showed up in spin-offs in the past, rather than having their full original games available before they were as DLC characters. So in KOS-MOS' case, she could get the Dante treatment and it'll remain ambiguous if either or both get a one-way ticket to Smash if their games being ported to the Switch is finally a thing.

Oh, and by the way...
Snake = Bio Type
R.O.B. = Mech Type
Ridley = Gnosis Type

That was a little Mythology Gag behind the AI choices for that KOS-MOS stage, lmao

EDIT: I just noticed something on the Woglinde Hangar stage that needs a minor tweak in, and I feel dumb for not including it. I'll repost the update later on with two new stages to accompany it. Please wait warmly~

Lynn Eslie · Jun 7, 2019

English Summary for the Harada&Takahashi interview.

While it does not cover every point mentioned, it serves as a decent takeaway.

From the full interview though, there were certain aspects that, while likely not terribly important, were of some interest to me.

1. Harada brings up Xenosaga himself, presenting all three titles (of the English release) while doing so. It tickles me that he had them prepared for this, given their only practical purpose was as a conversational prop.

2. In regards to the rendering engine for Episode I, Harada responds by lamenting the fact Takahashi never brought it up back then, stating he was in an excellent position to lend a hand during that period, and had "the best programmers in the industry" sitting on standby in the same building. Of course, Takahashi states he was under the impression Namco had a policy of trial of fire, but it does make for a rather silly moment in time.

3. Harada is also the one to bring up the passion overseas fans have for Xenosaga, and the regular requests and petitions he gets for an HD remake. In fact, Takahashi doesn't make much mention of Xenosaga except in response to Harada's inquiries on the subject, but Harada references it regularly throughout the interview.

4. Takahashi ordered sushi once. Harada saw it outside the door of Monolith's section at Namco. His bewilderment at the presence of delivery sushi in the building takes up nearly 1/5 of the first page, which is hilarious.

So in the very least, Harada shows clear interest in Xenosaga as a series, as well as the devoted fanbase it has garnered.

Hopefully a full translation will be made available in the not-too-distant future.

Senatiator · Jun 8, 2019

KarneraMythos said:
Though rough, the translated interview in its current state definitely implies fondness for the character, and he mentions JRPGs apparently struggling to break the 1 million threshold. As we've seen with Xenoblade Chronicles 2, it definitely passed the stretch goal a while back, being close to 3/4 of 2 million in life-time sales.

There is also Namco's unnamed Switch titles for E3 according to this rumor, though I am out of the loop and I'm certain it could be fake. Doesn't mean Namco won't have a presence, but it's not necessarily dependent on what this rumor claims:

Nintendo Switch Dummy placeholder pages on Amazon UK: https://t.co/afhk4cOTFw

2x Nintendo Switch consoles
4x Namco titles
2x Nintendo Switch accessories
3x Warner titles
3x Ubisoft titles

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! 👀👀👀 pic.twitter.com/WidkeWRQHP
— Nintendeal (@Nintendeal) June 5, 2019

So basically, any of those Namco titles could very well be a Xenosaga Trilogy Remaster. Keep in mind however that back in the Dante support thread, we're all crossing our fingers at the possibility of Dante showing up in Smash with a confirmed Switch port to his name finally. The one obstacle is that the current pattern for left-field characters seem to be that we usually get them playable as they are before they even get a true Nintendo port.

Cloud and Joker are great examples since they both only ever showed up in spin-offs in the past, rather than having their full original games available before they were as DLC characters. So in KOS-MOS' case, she could get the Dante treatment and it'll remain ambiguous if either or both get a one-way ticket to Smash if their games being ported to the Switch is finally a thing.

Oh, and by the way...
Snake = Bio Type
R.O.B. = Mech Type
Ridley = Gnosis Type

That was a little Mythology Gag behind the AI choices for that KOS-MOS stage, lmao
EDIT: I just noticed something on the Woglinde Hangar stage that needs a minor tweak in, and I feel dumb for not including it. I'll repost the update later on with two new stages to accompany it. Please wait warmly~

What does this mean? KOS-MOS has her games on the Nintendo platform not saying that Sakurai has ever indicated that appearing on a Nintendo platform prior is a "requirement" as seen in the case where he considered Roy and Sonic the Hedgehog for Super Smash Bros Melee. They sure didn't put emphasis on Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories in Cloud Strife's reveal. It seems illogical that to add third-party characters they "need to be on Nintendo platforms prior to be added" because "it is so important" instead of adding characters Nintendo owns like Ashley, Skull Kid, Waluigi, Isaac, Pious Augustus, Fighter Hayabusa, Saki, Andy, etc.

KarneraMythos · Jun 8, 2019

Senatiator said:
What does this mean? KOS-MOS has her games on the Nintendo platform not saying that Sakurai has ever indicated that appearing on a Nintendo platform prior is a "requirement" as seen in the case where he considered Roy and Sonic the Hedgehog for Super Smash Bros Melee. They sure didn't put emphasis on Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories in Cloud Strife's reveal. It seems illogical that to add third-party characters they "need to be on Nintendo platforms prior to be added" because "it is so important" instead of adding characters Nintendo owns like Ashley, Skull Kid, Waluigi, Isaac, Pious Augustus, Fighter Hayabusa, Saki, Andy, etc.

Alright, let's not twist words here. I have never once stated "importance" in my previous comment regarding 3rd-party characters. The point of the Cloud & Joker comment was to highlight a particular status they both share regarding their place in Smash. They have a widespread history on Nintendo, either directly or indirectly. So do KOS-MOS and Dante, and several other 3rd-party characters we don't have to mention.

They were also announced playable first before their home games' announcements (time will tell when and if Persona 5 finally gets a Switch port). On the other hand, Dante got the first (and only the first, ****ing Capcom...) Devil May Cry announced for this summer. Meanwhile, he is no where to be seen in Smash. It's a bit worrisome.

Yes, I am well aware of the games KOS-MOS had on the DS, but regarding the original games and the original vision of the series, it's pretty much absent outside of cameos and crossovers. Which by the way, is one of the biggest supporting arguments for her, as opposed to the lack of ports. I am arguing that KOS-MOS' chances would be a lot better now if we hear about her before we hear about any Xenosaga ports, because we can operate on the assumption that the character is popular enough to warrant DLC sales for Smash while holding onto the confidence that her game's future ports will sell anyway. Same goes for Dante, but Dante's case is just real ****ing iffy...

I am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best while expecting the worst.

ES. Dinah · Jun 11, 2019

Lynn Eslie said:
English Summary for the Harada&Takahashi interview.

While it does not cover every point mentioned, it serves as a decent takeaway.

From the full interview though, there were certain aspects that, while likely not terribly important, were of some interest to me.

1. Harada brings up Xenosaga himself, presenting all three titles (of the English release) while doing so. It tickles me that he had them prepared for this, given their only practical purpose was as a conversational prop.

2. In regards to the rendering engine for Episode I, Harada responds by lamenting the fact Takahashi never brought it up back then, stating he was in an excellent position to lend a hand during that period, and had "the best programmers in the industry" sitting on standby in the same building. Of course, Takahashi states he was under the impression Namco had a policy of trial of fire, but it does make for a rather silly moment in time.

3. Harada is also the one to bring up the passion overseas fans have for Xenosaga, and the regular requests and petitions he gets for an HD remake. In fact, Takahashi doesn't make much mention of Xenosaga except in response to Harada's inquiries on the subject, but Harada references it regularly throughout the interview.

4. Takahashi ordered sushi once. Harada saw it outside the door of Monolith's section at Namco. His bewilderment at the presence of delivery sushi in the building takes up nearly 1/5 of the first page, which is hilarious.

So in the very least, Harada shows clear interest in Xenosaga as a series, as well as the devoted fanbase it has garnered.

Hopefully a full translation will be made available in the not-too-distant future.

Thanks for this, Lynn. It provides wonderful insight and i'm very happy there might be a future for Xenosaga HD.... makes me less gutted we got no Xeno at E3. Harada will work hard for us I hope!

Okay so to get the thread back on track.... there was obviously nothing Xeno at E3 and that is super disappointing to me but it's not good to remain negative I guess. I'm not too big on Banjo and Erdrick/Luminary and I am really needed any Xeno rep at this point ... I refuse to believe Sakurai would not want a Xenoblade/Namco rep in this pass... and now begins the toughest phase yet. Which Namco rep will get in? It's a battle for KOS-MOS but let's not lose hope as Banjo has been a character that has been dead for too long and now revived so keep in mind that KOS-MOS is still entirely possible and her cameo has merit.

Smasherfan88 · Jun 12, 2019

Personally, I believe we're going to get a second Namco Bandai in the fighter pass. While I want KOS-MOS the most, it could very well be that someone from Tales of or Heihachi gets in as well. Even as someone who doesn't want another fighting game character to get in Smash Bros. the fact Heihachi almost got into Smash 4 is a factor for him he has over any other character, that said his reason for not getting in Smash 4 still could be against him, being too complex for smash.

Regardless, Fighter #74 will probably be announced for a 2019 winter release while #75 will be as well, but before the Feb. 2020 deadline. Seeming as:

P. Plant: January 2019 (Winter)

Joker: April 2019 (Spring)

Then we're getting

The Hero(es): Summer 2019

Banjo and Kazooie: Fall 2019.

Only makes sense the next two will be releasing winter of this year and the starting winter of next year, January or February.

I'm gonna speculate Fighter #74 (maybe #75 too) will be announced at Evo (August 2nd 2019-August 4th 2019) Seems about the right time to announce that character, and that's kinda why I'm scared it'll be Heihachi over KOS-MOS. Regardless I have my hopes up for her.

As for why I say it's probably guaranteed we're getting a Namco Bandai rep and not say... two Nintendo reps? (That said I do think we're getting one Nintendo Rep here, Sylux or Porky in my head, but that's probably me being in denial it'll be another FE character).

Well, besides Microsoft's recent inclusion with the bear and bird duo we got:

Sega with three: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker

Konami with three: Snake, Simon, Ritcher

Capcom with three: Mega-Man, Ryu, Ken

Then Square Enix with two now: Cloud, and The Hero(es).

Namco Bandai only has one and it's Pac-Man (poor Pac, truly the life of a ghost gobbler in Smash Bros. is a lonely one).

So it just makes a lot of sense we'd get another Namco Bandai rep, could be KOS-MOS, someone from Tales Of, could be Heihachi taking his place on the roster after he got passed on for Smash 4. I hope KOS-MOS, I personally don't see a Tales Of character since the new game is supposedly passing the Switch (oh well, planning on getting a Scarlett when it comes out for Halo Infinite and PSO2 anyways) and I already shared my thoughts on Mr. Tekken Mascot. So really in my mind, it's KOS-MOS vs Heihachi now, and if the reveal is at EVO, could be Heihachi since fighting game character and what not, but since Nintendo is also known for doing the unexpected or seemingly impossible... they could very well reveal KOS-MOS there as well. Only time will tell us who the victor here is... then again both could lose and they unexpectedly announce Dig Dug or something.

Rie Sonomura · Jun 12, 2019

What if Bandai Namco gets two reps, but it’s KOS-MOS with a T-elos Echo as individual DLC? Something tells me Lloyd will be a Mii costume again

Smasherfan88 · Jun 12, 2019

Rie Sonomura said:
What if Bandai Namco gets two reps, but it’s KOS-MOS with a T-elos Echo as individual DLC? Something tells me Lloyd will be a Mii costume again

If anything, T-elos would most likely be a alternate costume like how the other Dragon Quest protagonists are for the Luminary.

At least in Ultimate anyways, personally however... I'm against the idea of Echo Fighters as /paid/ DLC. I don't see why you'd pay money for something already in a game that just has an aesthetic change, I'd rather Echo Fighters be free DLC if they're of characters already in the game. But say... in the scenario you just said, instead of being a seperate thing, T-elos would be bundled in with KOS-MOS' hypothetical DLC inclusion, not taking any slots up in the fighter pass, just sharing the same slot as KOS-MOS, she's just bundled in there as an Echo Fighter and does not effect the price of the Challenger Pack at all. That's how I'd prefer Echo Fighters of DLC characters to work in general, being bundled in with the character you're paying for that they Echo, and not impacting the price at all, so technically, still "free". Having to pay for Echo fighters would just be a greedy money-grabbing business tactic.

That said, seeming as they could've done this with The Luminary/The Hero but didn't and just made those other protagonists alternate costumes, it would most likely be the case T-elos would find herself as an alt, and if KOS-MOS were to return in the next game if she got in and had T-elos as an alt, perhaps then she would get a promotion to Echo Fighter status, but seeming as how that turned out for Alph... even that would be unlikely.

But yeah, I can see Lloyd's Mii Costume returning like how Tails and Knuckles had theirs return.

Rie Sonomura · Jun 12, 2019

Smasherfan88 said:
If anything, T-elos would most likely be a alternate costume like how the other Dragon Quest protagonists are for the Luminary.

At least in Ultimate anyways, personally however... I'm against the idea of Echo Fighters as /paid/ DLC. I don't see why you'd pay money for something already in a game that just has an aesthetic change, I'd rather Echo Fighters be free DLC if they're of characters already in the game. But say... in the scenario you just said, instead of being a seperate thing, T-elos would be bundled in with KOS-MOS' hypothetical DLC inclusion, not taking any slots up in the fighter pass, just sharing the same slot as KOS-MOS, she's just bundled in there as an Echo Fighter and does not effect the price of the Challenger Pack at all. That's how I'd prefer Echo Fighters of DLC characters to work in general, being bundled in with the character you're paying for that they Echo, and not impacting the price at all, so technically, still "free". Having to pay for Echo fighters would just be a greedy money-grabbing business tactic.

That said, seeming as they could've done this with The Luminary/The Hero but didn't and just made those other protagonists alternate costumes, it would most likely be the case T-elos would find herself as an alt, and if KOS-MOS were to return in the next game if she got in and had T-elos as an alt, perhaps then she would get a promotion to Echo Fighter status, but seeming as how that turned out for Alph... even that would be unlikely.

But yeah, I can see Lloyd's Mii Costume returning like how Tails and Knuckles had theirs return.

T-elos has a unique weapon tho, her laser scythe, as also seen in her appearance in Xenoblade 2 as a Blade. It feels wrong to demote her to alternate costume.

Also, there is a rumor that Kasumi Yoshizawa may be a Joker Echo or Semi-clone eventually, likely as either a free patch for Joker owners, or individual DLC like PP (hopefully super cheap). T-elos might be in that same situation if so

Smasherfan88 · Jun 12, 2019

Rie Sonomura said:
T-elos has a unique weapon tho, her laser scythe, as also seen in her appearance in Xenoblade 2 as a Blade. It feels wrong to demote her to alternate costume.

Also, there is a rumor that Kasumi Yoshizawa may be a Joker Echo or Semi-clone eventually, likely as either a free patch for Joker owners, or individual DLC like PP (hopefully super cheap). T-elos might be in that same situation if so

Then she'd have to be a unique fighter, KOS-MOS doesn't wield a scythe like T-elos does in her Xenoblade 2 appearance. But seeming as the main costumes would be their Xenosaga ones with the redesigns only taking alt slots, it's not like it'd be needed anyways, especially seeming as she'd be echoing KOS-MOS in this case and to be an Echo Fighter you need to copy a fighter from your series exactly, exceptions being some stat changes or taking a singular move from another character in your series that the one you're echoing doesn't have. An example would be that Shadow wouldn't be allowed to Echo Sonic if he had a teleport up-b since Sonic, the only other character in his series in this hypothetical talk, does not have a teleportation move, and to my knowledge anything the scythe is something she only has in Xenoblade 2. So that said, T-elos can't Echo KOS-MOS if she has a scythe, she'd have to go without it. As much as I like T-elos, for now an alternate costume fits her best.

Never heard of it, but I personally don't think that'll happen. Nor do I think that's a good idea, since from what we've seen Kasumi is a very different character to Joker, gameplay and personality wise.

Rie Sonomura · Jun 12, 2019

Smasherfan88 said:
Then she'd have to be a unique fighter, KOS-MOS doesn't wield a scythe like T-elos does in her Xenoblade 2 appearance. But seeming as the main costumes would be their Xenosaga ones with the redesigns only taking alt slots, it's not like it'd be needed anyways, especially seeming as she'd be echoing KOS-MOS in this case and to be an Echo Fighter you need to copy a fighter from your series exactly, exceptions being some stat changes or taking a singular move from another character in your series that the one you're echoing doesn't have. An example would be that Shadow wouldn't be allowed to Echo Sonic if he had a teleport up-b since Sonic, the only other character in his series in this hypothetical talk, does not have a teleportation move, and to my knowledge anything the scythe is something she only has in Xenoblade 2. So that said, T-elos can't Echo KOS-MOS if she has a scythe, she'd have to go without it. As much as I like T-elos, for now an alternate costume fits her best.

Never heard of it, but I personally don't think that'll happen. Nor do I think that's a good idea, since from what we've seen Kasumi is a very different character to Joker, gameplay and personality wise.

The Kasumi thing comes from a string in Jack (revealed to be Joker)’s code, named “Jane” that has a ponytail as is also specified in the code. Jane isn’t Ann Takamaki (codenamed “Panther” in the code when Joker dropped). If not an Echo or Semi-Clone, Kasumi (Phantom Thief codename TBD) will at least use Joker as a base somehow. I doubt she’d be an Assist Trophy either as afaik no DLC came with ATs (I’m guessing Slime is a part of Hero’s taunt or his stage)

ES. Dinah · Jun 12, 2019

Smasherfan88 said:
Personally, I believe we're going to get a second Namco Bandai in the fighter pass. While I want KOS-MOS the most, it could very well be that someone from Tales of or Heihachi gets in as well. Even as someone who doesn't want another fighting game character to get in Smash Bros. the fact Heihachi almost got into Smash 4 is a factor for him he has over any other character, that said his reason for not getting in Smash 4 still could be against him, being too complex for smash.

Regardless, Fighter #74 will probably be announced for a 2019 winter release while #75 will be as well, but before the Feb. 2020 deadline. Seeming as:

P. Plant: January 2019 (Winter)

Joker: April 2019 (Spring)

Then we're getting

The Hero(es): Summer 2019

Banjo and Kazooie: Fall 2019.

Only makes sense the next two will be releasing winter of this year and the starting winter of next year, January or February.

I'm gonna speculate Fighter #74 (maybe #75 too) will be announced at Evo (August 2nd 2019-August 4th 2019) Seems about the right time to announce that character, and that's kinda why I'm scared it'll be Heihachi over KOS-MOS. Regardless I have my hopes up for her.

As for why I say it's probably guaranteed we're getting a Namco Bandai rep and not say... two Nintendo reps? (That said I do think we're getting one Nintendo Rep here, Sylux or Porky in my head, but that's probably me being in denial it'll be another FE character).

Well, besides Microsoft's recent inclusion with the bear and bird duo we got:

Sega with three: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker

Konami with three: Snake, Simon, Ritcher

Capcom with three: Mega-Man, Ryu, Ken

Then Square Enix with two now: Cloud, and The Hero(es).

Namco Bandai only has one and it's Pac-Man (poor Pac, truly the life of a ghost gobbler in Smash Bros. is a lonely one).

So it just makes a lot of sense we'd get another Namco Bandai rep, could be KOS-MOS, someone from Tales Of, could be Heihachi taking his place on the roster after he got passed on for Smash 4. I hope KOS-MOS, I personally don't see a Tales Of character since the new game is supposedly passing the Switch (oh well, planning on getting a Scarlett when it comes out for Halo Infinite and PSO2 anyways) and I already shared my thoughts on Mr. Tekken Mascot. So really in my mind, it's KOS-MOS vs Heihachi now, and if the reveal is at EVO, could be Heihachi since fighting game character and what not, but since Nintendo is also known for doing the unexpected or seemingly impossible... they could very well reveal KOS-MOS there as well. Only time will tell us who the victor here is... then again both could lose and they unexpectedly announce Dig Dug or something.

I 100% agree on the Namco character but I was just thinking of something while reading your post. You seem to really worry we will get Heihachi when he is in a taunt and there is also the fact that Hero will make Lloyd's reveal look like crap, IMO. Imagine getting two sword fighters back to back. It would just be disappointing even if Lloyd has two swords. Also, I think another point in KOS-MOS's favour... and this might be a stretch but she's female and we currently only have males in the fighter pass. It would really make sense to have her over another male for Namco and she easily has the most crossover appearances. Maybe she'll even appear in Tales of Arise somewhere... I'm confident about that as she cameos in tales games as a support unit in Hearts, move in Abyss, and costume in vesperia... etc.

Oh and to speak on T-ELOS as an alt... I think it's 100% possible. She doesn't have to use her laser scythe and they could just make her have the same moves with different animations kind of like Episode III T-ELOS and Project X Zone. If they do go for a Re appearance it might be a bit more difficult to make T-ELOS Re as an alt though.

Rie Sonomura · Jun 12, 2019

What would KOS-MOS (and possibly T-elos)’s series symbol be? The Vector Industries symbol? The Zohar?

I don’t think they’d be counted as Xenoblade reps tbh despite being in Xenoblade 2

Smasherfan88 · Jun 12, 2019

ES. Dinah said:
I 100% agree on the Namco character but I was just thinking of something while reading your post. You seem to really worry we will get Heihachi when he is in a taunt and there is also the fact that Hero will make Lloyd's reveal look like crap, IMO. Imagine getting two sword fighters back to back. It would just be disappointing even if Lloyd has two swords. Also, I think another point in KOS-MOS's favour... and this might be a stretch but she's female and we currently only have males in the fighter pass. It would really make sense to have her over another male for Namco and she easily has the most crossover appearances. Maybe she'll even appear in Tales of Arise somewhere... I'm confident about that as she cameos in tales games as a support unit in Hearts, move in Abyss, and costume in vesperia... etc.

Oh and to speak on T-ELOS as an alt... I think it's 100% possible. She doesn't have to use her laser scythe and they could just make her have the same moves with different animations kind of like Episode III T-ELOS and Project X Zone. If they do go for a Re appearance it might be a bit more difficult to make T-ELOS Re as an alt though.

Yet another reason why I don't believe Lloyd or anyone from the Tales of series would be making a playable appearance this time around. I will say though, while I don't necessarily support Heihachi, since as I've said I'd rather we not get any more fighting game characters unless they could truly bring something unique to the table. I don't necessarily think being in Pac-Man's taunt means he is 100% out of the picture, especially considering we have Chrom as a character, final smash, and a Mii Costume and I don't think a taunt would shoot that down, Mii Costume though... probably. Even then that doesn't shoot down the possibility of his son, Jin, taking the slot.

But you're right about that... kind of. Kazooie is technically female so we do have three males and one female, even if it's Kazooie and she's tied to Banjo. But I suppose that does make a point, since not counting Female Corrin, Bayonetta was the only female in Smash 4's DLC cycle, even if she was the "ballot winner" since we all know by now we got the actual ballot winners in Ultimate and Sakurai just chose Bayo since he wanted to make her that badly. Even then, if you do want to count Female Corrin and not Bayonetta because "ballot winner" she was the only guaranteed female apart of the Smash 4 DLC, even if the main costume is Male Corrin. So she could very well fit the Namco Bandai slot and fit in the female character quota if you don't want to count Kazooie since she's tied to Banjo.

That said, I believe both Re: designs for T-elos and KOS-MOS could work since they're not /that/ entirely different, and even then the Hero(es) are alts of the Luminary and there are some very key differences that don't exactly fit the Luminary's sihiloute but still have the same hitboxes. So I think the Re: designs for both of them could work with that in mind, of course they won't have the giant data crystals on them, that would be going too far for an alt to break the sihiloutes, but just the base Re: designs could work, even if T-elos Re: has that short skirt.

Anyways, here's some comparisons of the Hero(es) to help get that across.

Blackthorne · Jun 12, 2019

Hi everyone! I've only made an account for Smashboards, but to tell the truth, I've frequented this page more times then I can count, ever since DLC speculation started. KOS-MOS is easily one of my most wanted fighters, and I really think she has a shot this time around. So, with that said, please add me to the support list.

Also, one more thing. I saw you guys talking about T-elos not being able to echo KOS-MOS due to her scythe. However, a point I'd like to bring up is that Dark Pit uses a staff as his main weapon, something Pit doesn't have, yet still echoes Pit, with his Final Smash being the staff. Perhaps T-elos could follow a similar path?

Rie Sonomura · Jun 12, 2019

Hey so

I was making a mock-up for a KOS-MOS (with T-elos Echo) trailer, here’s the final draft I suppose:

Rie Sonomura said:
Since DLC will indeed get trailers, as evidenced with Banjo and Hero, I'll write one for my hopeful next rep, which will be a Bandai Namco rep: KOS-MOS (74) and her Echo (more a Ken-style semi echo), T-elos (74ε). KOS-MOS has a new design exclusive to Smash that borrows from elements of her Xenosaga 2, 3, and Xenoblade 2 designs; and T-elos's design is based off her Xenoblade 2 design. There will be World of Light elements in this as with Hero's trailer.

song is below, refer to appropriate timestamps for certain parts. bolded + italicized lines indicate lyrics translations for potential subtitles or something (or potential English cover lyrics hmu if you wanna use em)

The setting is a sci-fi looking area in the Light realm as Galeem!King Dedede and Galeem!Ken attack Bayonetta and Palutena, who seem to be having trouble. The camera cuts briefly to a pair of heels walking along the metal walkway, and the song cuts to 0:14 as the following appears:
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
x
Xenosaga

Cut back to the mysterious woman, who seems to whip a pair of gatling guns out of seemingly nowhere and fires at the Galeem-controlled fighters, but not before calling out to Bayonetta and Palutena, "Get down." After the possessed fighters are pushed back, the witch and the goddess turn around to the combat android as she says:
"Target acquired."

KOS-MOS Locks On!

Begin first lyrical portion as basic gameplay with KOS-MOS, featuring her stage, is shown, including her fighting Mega Man and ROB:

In the silent city, the leaves gently sway
Even the street signposts seem like an illusion

No matter how much I call out for it
I cannot seem to reach the sky
That gets tainted and stretches out into infinity

Cut between CGI footage of KOS-MOS and the other two facing more Galeem controlled fighters and more gameplay as these lyrics play (0:57):

I incline my ears to the sky
That divides this world asunder
(Brave New World)
And I hear a voice inviting me

I look up at the boundless sky that divides this world asunder
(Brave New World)
And I know the world’s all but a stage

Back to CGI as the three seem to be outnumbered, and a familiar face steps in as the song cuts to 1:39:

The lines that divide these brave new worlds begin to blur
And now the light and the dark start to fuse together and become one

Another android woman similar to KOS-MOS, but with violet body armor and silver hair, lands in front of the three and says, "Wow, KOS-MOS. Didn't know you were this incompetent." She draws a laser scythe and takes a combat stance as:

T-elos Cuts To The Chase?!

Cue the song skipping to 2:25 as T-elos gameplay is shown, including Namco Gang Represent aka PAC-MAN, KOS-MOS and T-elos taunting together, along with a Mii Swordfighter wearing the Lloyd Irving costume, a Gunner wearing a Klonoa hat, and a Brawler wearing the Heihachi costume, as well as T-elos fighting Banjo, Wolf, Link and Bowser:

Up above, the sky beyond my reach divides this world asunder
And in turn, this brave new world is born anew

I look up at the boundless sky that divides this world asunder
(Brave New World)
And I know the world’s all but a stage

Final Smashes shown at 2:51, starting with KOS-MOS's X-Buster (which starts with her announcing, "Charging!") against Galeem-controlled Inkling Boy, Hero, and Lucina on Hero's stage; and T-elos's U-TENERITAS (which starts with her saying, "Had enough yet?") against Dharkon-controlled Female Corrin, Captain Falcon, and Joker on Persona 4-themed Mementos:

And therefore

I won’t hesitate anymore
I won’t look back anymore
I’ll just keep running on
Toward the boundless sky

Back to CGI, the Galeem fighters surround the four as Palutena and Bayonetta give the two android ladies a boost toward Galeem. Cut back to gameplay; showing off a new World of Light Co-Op mode as KOS-MOS attacks Galeem and T-elos attacks Dharkon in the final battle as the song cuts to 3:07 and plays until the end:

With all my power
I pray with all my heart
That my soul does not get scattered in the wind
I want to hold on
To my dreams and wishes
And keep on running
To the brave new world that awaits…!

Before the trailer ends, you hear one familiar voice saying, "That put a dent in them," and another saying "I'm gonna go all out", teasing at Elma being the final character of Fighter Pass 1 (75), bundled with Mecha-Fiora (75ε).

end trailer

I woulda used a Xenosaga song but I consider Brave New World to be the Namco Anthem for all intents and purposes

ES. Dinah · Jun 12, 2019

Rie Sonomura said:
What would KOS-MOS (and possibly T-elos)’s series symbol be? The Vector Industries symbol? The Zohar?

I don’t think they’d be counted as Xenoblade reps tbh despite being in Xenoblade 2

Zohar for sure! It's by far the most iconic symbol in the Xeno series. If it were Vector I dont think it would have as much of a cool reveal. Remember that in Xenoblade 2 the

Conduit is pretty much the Zohar

so it makes sense.

Smasherfan88 said:
Yet another reason why I don't believe Lloyd or anyone from the Tales of series would be making a playable appearance this time around. I will say though, while I don't necessarily support Heihachi, since as I've said I'd rather we not get any more fighting game characters unless they could truly bring something unique to the table. I don't necessarily think being in Pac-Man's taunt means he is 100% out of the picture, especially considering we have Chrom as a character, final smash, and a Mii Costume and I don't think a taunt would shoot that down, Mii Costume though... probably. Even then that doesn't shoot down the possibility of his son, Jin, taking the slot.

But you're right about that... kind of. Kazooie is technically female so we do have three males and one female, even if it's Kazooie and she's tied to Banjo. But I suppose that does make a point, since not counting Female Corrin, Bayonetta was the only female in Smash 4's DLC cycle, even if she was the "ballot winner" since we all know by now we got the actual ballot winners in Ultimate and Sakurai just chose Bayo since he wanted to make her that badly. Even then, if you do want to count Female Corrin and not Bayonetta because "ballot winner" she was the only guaranteed female apart of the Smash 4 DLC, even if the main costume is Male Corrin. So she could very well fit the Namco Bandai slot and fit in the female character quota if you don't want to count Kazooie since she's tied to Banjo.

That said, I believe both Re: designs for T-elos and KOS-MOS could work since they're not /that/ entirely different, and even then the Hero(es) are alts of the Luminary and there are some very key differences that don't exactly fit the Luminary's sihiloute but still have the same hitboxes. So I think the Re: designs for both of them could work with that in mind, of course they won't have the giant data crystals on them, that would be going too far for an alt to break the sihiloutes, but just the base Re: designs could work, even if T-elos Re: has that short skirt.

Anyways, here's some comparisons of the Hero(es) to help get that across.

Wow, yeah Bayo WAS the last female dlc character. That's not that great for female representation. I would personally hope we get KOS-MOS and Jill Valentine as the last reps or something. And I do understand your point about the Heroes. Thanks for bringing that up.

Blackthorne said:
Hi everyone! I've only made an account for Smashboards, but to tell the truth, I've frequented this page more times then I can count, ever since DLC speculation started. KOS-MOS is easily one of my most wanted fighters, and I really think she has a shot this time around. So, with that said, please add me to the support list.

Also, one more thing. I saw you guys talking about T-elos not being able to echo KOS-MOS due to her scythe. However, a point I'd like to bring up is that Dark Pit uses a staff as his main weapon, something Pit doesn't have, yet still echoes Pit, with his Final Smash being the staff. Perhaps T-elos could follow a similar path?

More than happy to hear you have signed up and frequent this page! I worked hard on it and so have some of the others. We're aiming to get as much support as we can even though the dlc characters were selected awhile back... it's still great support for the future.

Rie Sonomura said:
Hey so

I was making a mock-up for a KOS-MOS (with T-elos Echo) trailer, here’s the final draft I suppose:

I woulda used a Xenosaga song but I consider Brave New World to be the Namco Anthem for all intents and purposes

Wow, that mock up trailer does sound amazing. Great Job, Rie and yeah I think Brave new world is fine! I can't express how happy I would be if we got all those characters. Truly would be a dream come true as I really want Elma or Fiora as well after KOS-MOS.

Smasherfan88 · Jun 13, 2019

Blackthorne said:
Hi everyone! I've only made an account for Smashboards, but to tell the truth, I've frequented this page more times then I can count, ever since DLC speculation started. KOS-MOS is easily one of my most wanted fighters, and I really think she has a shot this time around. So, with that said, please add me to the support list.

Also, one more thing. I saw you guys talking about T-elos not being able to echo KOS-MOS due to her scythe. However, a point I'd like to bring up is that Dark Pit uses a staff as his main weapon, something Pit doesn't have, yet still echoes Pit, with his Final Smash being the staff. Perhaps T-elos could follow a similar path?

Welcome to the KOS-MOS support group! Though to clarify T-elos not being able to Echo with the scythe is her actually using it in her moveset and not for a Final Smash, she could use it for her final smash though, as unlikely as I think it may be as I might make more sense for her to just copy KOS-MOS' potential final smash. That also said, it seems more likely if T-elos did get representation via playability it'd be through an alt for KOS-MOS since as of now it seems fighter pass characters aren't getting Echoes, since as previously said, The Hero(es) could very well have been that way.

ES. Dinah said:
Wow, yeah Bayo WAS the last female dlc character. That's not that great for female representation. I would personally hope we get KOS-MOS and Jill Valentine as the last reps or something. And I do understand your point about the Heroes. Thanks for bringing that up.

You're welcome, though I was personally pointing out, that at least for now, DLC for Smash has had at least one Female character. Granted I'm of the opinion it'll be someone from Bandai Namco (KOS-MOS) to fill that and be the only one, as I feel like the very last character will be a Nintendo rep, like how Corrin was, though I think the greatest contenders for this are Porky from Earthbound or Sylux from Metroid due to being important characters for their series that are mysteriously not represented at all. That said I wouldn't mind Jill or anyone else from Resident Evil, pretty neutral to the idea but I think a fourth Capcom rep is best saves for the next Smash Game, that is if all three current Capcom reps return, as it's kinda obvious Residenr Evil would be next up in the list of series owned by Capcom to get represented in Smash Bros via a playable character.

Rie Sonomura · Jun 13, 2019

Isn’t there a trademarked Xenosaga HD Collection, potentially for the Switch? You think KOS-MOS (and T-elos) could be promotion for that when it’s officially announced?

KarneraMythos · Jun 13, 2019

Blackthorne said:
Hi everyone! I've only made an account for Smashboards, but to tell the truth, I've frequented this page more times then I can count, ever since DLC speculation started. KOS-MOS is easily one of my most wanted fighters, and I really think she has a shot this time around. So, with that said, please add me to the support list.

Also, one more thing. I saw you guys talking about T-elos not being able to echo KOS-MOS due to her scythe. However, a point I'd like to bring up is that Dark Pit uses a staff as his main weapon, something Pit doesn't have, yet still echoes Pit, with his Final Smash being the staff. Perhaps T-elos could follow a similar path?

Welcome, Blackthorne! I see you are a person of culture as well (for joining the support list AND sporting a Nero avatar)~

Regarding the scythe talk, my post covers that, so read along if you'd like.

Rie Sonomura said:
What would KOS-MOS (and possibly T-elos)’s series symbol be? The Vector Industries symbol? The Zohar?

I don’t think they’d be counted as Xenoblade reps tbh despite being in Xenoblade 2

ES. Dinah said:
Zohar for sure! It's by far the most iconic symbol in the Xeno series. If it were Vector I dont think it would have as much of a cool reveal. Remember that in Xenoblade 2 the

Conduit is pretty much the Zohar

so it makes sense.

Ehh, I dunno chief... They would likely have the Vector symbol instead of the Zohar. Reason being that the Conduit in the Xenoblade games is essentially the Zohar in the guise of another name. Suppose Xenogears got representation: They would likely have something related to their entry as well.

On the other hand, if all Xeno games were considered canonically linked, then it would make sense to retcon the series symbol so that all of them share the Zohar/Conduit, because that MacGuffin is present in every game. That ain't the case though. Shulk's icon is the Monado, and the Conduit is... well...

It's essentially spoiler territory for those who haven't played through any of the Xenoblade games. Even if it became common knowledge by then, I'm still banking on an icon that isn't the Zohar/Conduit in particular.

Smasherfan88 said:
Welcome to the KOS-MOS support group! Though to clarify T-elos not being able to Echo with the scythe is her actually using it in her moveset and not for a Final Smash, she could use it for her final smash though, as unlikely as I think it may be as I might make more sense for her to just copy KOS-MOS' potential final smash. That also said, it seems more likely if T-elos did get representation via playability it'd be through an alt for KOS-MOS since as of now it seems fighter pass characters aren't getting Echoes, since as previously said, The Hero(es) could very well have been that way.

KOS-MOS could potentially be a composite character if they want to go that route with T-elos, but consider the fact that Bayonetta does not have a Jeanne alt. Regarding the whole scythe discussion from previously, that weapon is not exclusive to T-elos herself.

In fact, KOS-MOS has a history of borrowing other characters' moves, as shown in this move compilation:

Assuming T-elos doesn't get referenced beyond potentially being a Spirit, KOS-MOS would more than likely don her classic outfit with Ver. 4 as her alts. Maybe they could go the Hero route and give her Ver. 1, Ver. 3. Ver. 4, and her Xenoblade design. I proposed an idea like that with Dante in the Dante support thread. To wit:
- KOS-MOS Ver.1 (P1)
- KOS-MOS Ver.3 (P2)
- KOS-MOS Ver.4 (P3)
- KOS-MOS Re: (P4)
- KOS-MOS Ver.1 - Shion (P5)
- KOS-MOS Ver.3 - MOMO (P6)
- KOS-MOS Ver.4 - T-elos (P7)
- KOS-MOS Re: - Mythra (P8) - Her battle prowess is equal to that of Mythra after all

Smasherfan88 said:
You're welcome, though I was personally pointing out, that at least for now, DLC for Smash has had at least one Female character. Granted I'm of the opinion it'll be someone from Bandai Namco (KOS-MOS) to fill that and be the only one, as I feel like the very last character will be a Nintendo rep, like how Corrin was, though I think the greatest contenders for this are Porky from Earthbound or Sylux from Metroid due to being important characters for their series that are mysteriously not represented at all. That said I wouldn't mind Jill or anyone else from Resident Evil, pretty neutral to the idea but I think a fourth Capcom rep is best saves for the next Smash Game, that is if all three current Capcom reps return, as it's kinda obvious Residenr Evil would be next up in the list of series owned by Capcom to get represented in Smash Bros via a playable character.

There's still a lot of potential female candidates. Another android that comes to mind in the same vein as KOS-MOS is 2B herself, where while the Hero is a Square rep, we also need to remember that Capcom, Konami, and Sega each have 3 reps under their names. Square is off by one and Namco's behind by two. If you want to count Banjo as Microsoft, that puts him in the same league as Namco at the moment.

Bottom line is that there are plenty of potential candidates out there.

Rie Sonomura said:
Isn’t there a trademarked Xenosaga HD Collection, potentially for the Switch? You think KOS-MOS (and T-elos) could be promotion for that when it’s officially announced?

Unless Dante is one of the last remaining characters despite Itsuno constantly teasing his exclusion from the game, KOS-MOS is probably better off being announced out of nowhere before any announcements of the HD collection.

Cloud and Joker were announced in Smash before their games made it into Nintendo's library. KOS-MOS had cameos on Nintendo systems too, so she's not discounted, but I feel like she has a better advantage coming from the wayside first like with Cloud and Joker.

Natlo · Jun 15, 2019

If I were putting money on it, I'd probably assume a Pokemon from sword and shield and a three houses rep. That said, reading this thread HAS made me feel better about our girl/battleship level weapons platform's chances.

ES. Dinah · Jun 16, 2019

I was debating on bringing this up or not but since we have been speculating the next fighter is female I thought it would be okay.

So the newest credible rumour is that a female character is next. This guy predicted DQ Hero correctly even before Erdrick was ever speculated/leaked and the most important part is that he guessed correctly that Hero has no female alts.

He's now been posting in English instead of Japanese sometimes... possibly cause his tweets have now gained traction in the west.

Here are some of the tweets from the account with his posts which were before and right after Sakurai finalized dlc with Nintendo.