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KO Punch and Dtilt -> KO Punch percentages

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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Hey guys! STiCKY here! As we all know, Dtilt is the most reliable way to pull off the KO Punch. I went through the trouble of finding out the percentages where this is a reliable combo (sooo many characters...). It was a fun but got pretty tedious halfway through. But this is definitely useful stuff and can help use the KO Punch smartly. So there will be 3 numbers posted for each character:
raw KO Punch kill percent / Dtilt -> KO Punch kill percentage / Dtilt -> KO Punch true combo range

Without further or do here goes the data

Bowser:
30% / 21% / 28%-78%
Bowser Jr: 22% / 14% / 34%-64%
Captain Falcon: 27% / 19% / 22%-84%
Charizard: 27% / 18% / 26%-69%
Dark Pit: 23% / 15% / 23%-68%
Diddy Kong: 23% / 15% / 23%-82%
Donkey Kong: 31% / 22% / 27%-81%
Dr. Mario: 24% / 15% / 24%-69%
Duck Hunt: 24% / 15% / 25%-75%
Falco: 20% / 12% / 21%-72%
Fox: 18% / 10% / 21%-72%
Ganondorf: 27% / 18% / 26%-68%
Greninja: 21% / 13% / 23%-69%
Ike: 27% / 19% / 25%-79%
Jigglypuff: 13% / 3% / 25%-46%
King Dedede: 34% / 25% / 27%-80%
Kirby: 16% / 7% / 27%-52%
Link: 26% / 17% / 25%-75%
Little Mac: 22% / 13% / 21%-76%
Lucario: 25% / 16% / 24%-84%
Lucina: 23% / 14% / 22%-74%
Luigi: 22% / 12% / 23%-51%
Mario: 24% / 15% / 24%-70%
Marth: 23% / 14% / 22%-74%
Mega Man: 27% / 19% / 24%-90%
Meta Knight: 19% / 11% / 21%-62%
Mr. Game & Watch: 15% / 6% / 20%-53%
Ness: 22% / 12% / 23%-62%
Olimar: 18% / 9% / 21%-64%
Pac-Man: 22% / 13% / 23%-70%
Palutena: 20% / 11% / 23%-57%
Peach: 19% / 10% / 29%-58%
Pikachu: 18% / 10% / 21%-56%
Pit: 23% / 14% / 23%-68%
R.O.B.: 26% / 19% / 25%-90%
Robin: 23% / 14% / 23%-74%
Rosalina & Luma: 17% / 7% / 27%-61%
Samus: 25% / 16% / 33%-80%
Sheik: 19% / 11% / 22%-66%
Shulk: 25% / 16% / 24%-77%
Sonic: 22% / 13% / 23%-64%
Toon Link: 21% / 12% / 23%-56%
Villager: 23% / 13% / 23%-65%
Wario: 26% / 18% / 25%-74%
Wii Fit Trainer: 21% / 12% / 23%-51%
Yoshi: 24% / 15% / 24%-63%
Zelda: 19% / 10% / 23%-59%
Zero Suit Samus: 20% / 11% / 21%-72%

Post-test notes:
  • I performed all of these tests on Final Destination so kill percentages will vary depending on top blast zone and if you're on a platform
  • I didn't put Rage into consideration because more than likely you'll be at high percentage with the KO punch anyway
  • I didn't put VI into consideration but I feel it's pretty neglible. If anything they will VI the KO Punch after the Dtilt which would raise the Dtilt -> KO Punch kill percentage.
  • Before the true combo range you can pull this off pretty easily. The only escape I believe is possible is an air dodge or very fast Nair maybe? It's very hard to react to the Dtilt though
  • After the true combo range you will whiff the KO Punch
  • Rosalina is hard to hit with the combo or raw KO punch with Luma around. Hitting her from behind (haha) is the best option if Luma is next to her.
  • I only tested the percentages of Vanilla Shulk. I didn't have a second person to test the Monado percentages.
  • Dtilt sometimes misses WFT at close range.
  • This is my first time data collecting... WOW this is some tedious stuff. But it feels good giving the knowledge to the Mac mains out there
  • A new update is coming out and there's word Mac might be nerfed but I think Dtilt and KO Punch should be safe. If not then these percentages probably won't change TOO much.
  • Not many people post in the moveset thread so I didn't put it there. But if it should be then please move it. I think we should have a separate data thread

Hopes this helps! Thanks!
 
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jmanup85

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This is awesome info and I really appreciate it. My question is if this will work with a perfectly spaced dtilt, because I like to space those as best as I can since I don't like getting punished with a grab doing that.
 

Nat Goméz

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One of the most useful things I've read, I'll start memorising it.

Thanks Sticky! This kind of effort is greatly appreciated
 

TheReflexWonder

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Would be useful to have a second person holding Up-Left and Up-Right to test how much that affects the D-Tilt (the combo range is probably limited by that), as well as the proper KO percents with an opponent holding Down during the KO Punch animation. It would be trivial for an opponent to do in neutral, especially with Tap Jump Off, so this is definitely something I would expect people to start doing when they're spacing against a Mac with KO Punch stocked.

Either way, definitely a great resource; thanks for taking the time to do this.
 
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STiCKYBULL3TZ

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Unfortunately, I didn't have a second person to test with. If I did, I could have done more testing with VI and Shulk's Monado Arts.

This is awesome info and I really appreciate it. My question is if this will work with a perfectly spaced dtilt, because I like to space those as best as I can since I don't like getting punished with a grab doing that.
That's a good point! I might test a few characters (not all) while perfectly spacing the Dtilt to see if anything changes.
 

jmanup85

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Unfortunately, I didn't have a second person to test with. If I did, I could have done more testing with VI and Shulk's Monado Arts.



That's a good point! I might test a few characters (not all) while perfectly spacing the Dtilt to see if anything changes.
I tested with a few characters and someone else vectoring, if it's perfectly spaced and they vector in time the ko punch will whiff even if they are at true combo percents. If you go for this combo then try not to perfectly space the dtilt but don't be reckless either. I also did jab 2 to ko punch but I don't believe it's a true combo.
 

Venks

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This is very interesting. All of these percents, the red ones, are the max-vectoring percents for the characters in 1.04
Back in 1.03 Dedede could live up to 42% and Jigglypuff up to 19%

So your "non-VI/DI" numbers are wrong now. They're too high.

Edit: You can't vector KO Punch anymore. Nice.
 
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Nat Goméz

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This is very interesting. All of these percents, the red ones, are the max-vectoring percents for the characters in 1.04
Back in 1.03 Dedede could live up to 42% and Jigglypuff up to 19%

So your "non-VI/DI" numbers are wrong now. They're too high.
Wait, seriously? That red one's were the KO punch kill percentage without VI, if does are the exact Kill percentage With VI in 1.04 does that actually means KO punch now kills earlier?
 

LCC Son-in-Law

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Wait, seriously? That red one's were the KO punch kill percentage without VI, if does are the exact Kill percentage With VI in 1.04 does that actually means KO punch now kills earlier?
I'm so confused right now.... So now, these percents are the percents with mac VI x.x?
 
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Nat Goméz

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I'm so confused right now.... So now, these percents are the percents with mac VI x.x?
Maybe or maybe not, I'm not sure man x.x Nah I think the difference is that KO punch is now unvertorable, or VI'ing is generally out.
 

Venks

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Maybe or maybe not, I'm not sure man x.x Nah I think the difference is that KO punch is now unvertorable, or VI'ing is generally out.
Haha wow. I didn't think of that. I was definitely wrong. You simply can't vector KO Punch anymore.
 

Nat Goméz

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Haha wow. I didn't think of that. I was definitely wrong. You simply can't vector KO Punch anymore.
No worries, we still love you :D and yeah is good to have our same old kill percentages again.

And in general, sorry for my horrible English mistakes, I see back to my post and i get so ashamed :p
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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I tested with a few characters and someone else vectoring, if it's perfectly spaced and they vector in time the ko punch will whiff even if they are at true combo percents. If you go for this combo then try not to perfectly space the dtilt but don't be reckless either. I also did jab 2 to ko punch but I don't believe it's a true combo.
I also did a little bit of testing myself. And yeah a fully spaced Dtilt won't combo into the KO Punch unless they are running toward you which would cause them to VI towards you.
 
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