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Knowing when to use Eruption.

Rango the Mercenary

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Perhaps one of the most significant ways to kill in this game is by using Ike's Eruption. Charge it for a bit, release when the enemy goes for an Up B, and before they can touch the ledge, the Eruption has hit them first and they're dead after 80% or so.

But each character is different. Fliers, like Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Jigglypuff will likely never get hit by your attack. Meanwhile, characters like Captain Falcon, Bowser, Donkey Kong, and Duck Hunt are gluttons for punishment. They're the ones you're incredibly likely to hit with Aether. The question is knowing when.

Arguably his best edge-guarding tactic, Eruption's only weakness is when you use it too soon or too late. The recovery time is an almost guaranteed ledge attack counter from your opponent, regardless of who they are using. This will send you flying back while they prep an attack (i.e. Mario's USmash) to finish you before you land. Do you feel Eruption is worth the risk, or would you rather try an edgeguard that involves post-recovery from the ledge, such as a USmash or pivot Ftilt or grab?

If you're using Eruption, when should you use it? It's purely character-specific. No two characters will have the same timing.

Captain Falcon - When you hear the "whoosh" of his Up B, it's almost a guaranteed signal of when to launch.
Lucario - When you see his pose change for Extremespeed, that's a good time.

However, hearing someone's Up B is not the perfect time to launch. Mario will either hit you past the ledge or make it right before the sword hits the ground, giving him the aforementioned free punish. A Peach's Parasol will hit you through the ledge, while a Little Mac will manipulate the timing (either too high or just up to the ledgesnap point at the lowest distance possible) to goad you into holding it or using it early. Teleporters, like Mewtwo and Palutena, will also make timing difficult. Then you have Sheik, who will not only teleport, but her Vanish can hurt you on the start and you cannot afford to make mistakes against Sheik.

Quick recoveries, like Pikachu's Quick Attack, make it difficult because he can do it once or twice, and will usually snap the ledge before you can predict. So do you attempt Eruption or do you just automatically go for other edgeguarding opportunities after he grabs the ledge?

Not unlike the recent counterpick stage, we should get character-specific timing for when to use Eruption, or if we should. Unlike the edgeguarding options topic, this is strictly for Eruption, as it is Ike's most crucial and devastating edgeguarding option, one that even the best of players will fall victim to.
 

san.

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Also, keep in mind that the uncharged phase of eruption (the part before the damage spike) has the best downward vertically reaching hitbox at the sword tip. The mostly charged versions don't reach as low, only at the middle area of the sword. This means that the partially charged eruption is the easiest to use against recoveries, giving you ~5-7 frames of leeway for timing as long as the sword is positioned correctly.
 
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Rango the Mercenary

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What's the difference in seconds for when it changes to the second version? I actually did not know the low end of the hitbox changes. Also, do you prefer to use the attack at the very corner of the stage or just by the edge? Or is that dependent on the type of stage you're fighting on? (Walled, corners, etc.)
 

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What's the difference in seconds for when it changes to the second version? I actually did not know the low end of the hitbox changes. Also, do you prefer to use the attack at the very corner of the stage or just by the edge? Or is that dependent on the type of stage you're fighting on? (Walled, corners, etc.)
I like to use it on the edge where the sword covers it. The hitbox we'll be hitting with will primarily be contained at the sword's hitbox. It's when he does the large explosion when it doesn't hit as far down. It still hits a ways down anyways, so it doesn't matter except against those who snap really far. The custom eruptions hit even farther up.
 

Arrei

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Against most recoveries, I prefer to stand as far out as I can. Obviously, against those with no upper hitbox on their recovery this maximizes the area around the ledge the attack covers, giving you just that little bit more ease in pulling off the edgeguard. But while people had suggested properly spacing the attack so attacks with hitboxes can't hit you as easily, I found the most problematic recoveries could just shark you right through the ground anyway. Marth's Dolphin Slash, Shulk's Air Slash, even Mac's Corkscrew Uppercut on slanted stages. I'd imagine now Ryu's Shoryuken will be a major offender in that department, too. So I've taken to utilizing the sword hitbox as much as I can.

Against Mario and Donkey Kong's Up-Bs, I'll shift just a little bit farther from the ledge to give myself just a tiny bit more breathing room. If it looks like Captain Falcon's going for a high recovery, I'll do that as well, because his only hope against Eruption is trying to mix it up and vault over our heads as we charge. DK in particular's a massive target, but by that same coin he can catch you off guard with just how far Spinning Kong will slap you from. As for Mario, his recovery is quick but can't go very far or very high, so it's key to watch for him to enter sweetspot territory and then unleash it. Alternatively, if he's going closer to the edge than necessary to sweetspot it, I let Eruption go once he's below ground level - it's highly likely he's trying to punch me in the face. That extra distance away from the ledge helps me better identify if he's going for a snap or trying to challenge me.

Against Pikachu, I'll still go for the Eruption because it's all down to mindgames over when you think he'll pull out Quick Attack - or, even better, if he tries to Skull Bash to the edge he's an extremely easy target. At worst I'll miss and take 7% damage for my troubles, and taking small hits like that isn't the most dangerous thing about the Pikachu matchup. It's even possible I'll jump the gun and release my charge too early, early enough to fool Pikachu into attacking my shield on getup and receiving an Ftilt to the face. But against Fox and Falco, I don't even try - Illusion and Phantasm are just too quick and versatile, and Phantasm's ability to spike you also makes offstage guarding a terrible idea.
 
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GhostUrsa

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I use Eruption against most low and deep recoveries for opponents that can't shark the stage with there Up-B. For side recoveries that have a good hitbox, like Spinning Kong or Phantasm, I'll usually go for either Counter or Shield and punish their landing. My option depends on where they are when they use their ability, since Phantasm has a decent amount of range and Counter isn't quite quick enough if they use it at a closer range. For deep recoveries that have sharking, I'll use either Counter or off-stage guarding with B-air, D-air or F-air. Peach, Mac and Pikachu's skull bash I find Counter wrecks them, while Cap I'm usually going for the stage spike or a d-air meteor depending on how close he is. (Didn't start using this until recently, as I always had a hard time doing this online but was able to dunk 3 people in an offline tourney. So satisfying!)

Getting the timing down for most of Ike's MUs is the hardest part of using Eruption, since we rarely have the opportunity to get a full charge down to flood the ledge with hitboxes. I've been working on it, but still get surprises with Little Mac and Luigi on occasion. It could be a good idea to make a list of characters that are safe to use Eruption on and characters where other options are ideal. I know the times I have a hard time getting the right option down are usually with MUs I don't get much experience with, and knowing what works for others would definitely help.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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I'm starting to think it's easier to predict a quicker recovery and use it early than try and wait for the reflexive timing that indicates the Up B input. That way, if you're too early, you still have a chance to edgeguard without being punished, whereas if you're late, they get a free hit.
 

GhostUrsa

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Yeah, I try not to use it Reflexively since it's easier to throw off muscle memory than an attentive mind. I find relying on reflex only works for faster characters, while Ike is a read heavy character by nature. The psych-out is what he relies on, and going off of reflex for the use of Eruption makes him predictable.
 

Renegade TX2000

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Robin is also another character that's very easy to hit eruption with. If he has to use 2nd el wind to recover then he's most likely getting hit by eruption because of how telegraphed his recovery is.
 

Arrei

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Not only that, but Elwind even slows down near the top of the second jump, making him linger around right in the blast zone.

One that's given me trouble for how easy it should theoretically be to hit is Rosalina's Launch Star, though. I can't quite seem to get the timing down on that.
 

Ikespike

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Another difference between uncharged and charged Eruption is the longer lasting hitbox. Uncharged Eruption lasts about 2 frames, while a charged Eruption lasts about 5 frames. So it's easier to abuse the 1 frame with a charged Eruption, when they grab the ledge and aren't invincible.
Something I sometimes like to do, is to wait at the ledge, jump in the air and start charging Eruption. If they try to recover high, they will likely get hit by it and if they try to wait and recover low, Eruption is already charged and the longer lasting hitbox makes it for me a bit easier to punish this frame.
 

san.

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Another difference between uncharged and charged Eruption is the longer lasting hitbox. Uncharged Eruption lasts about 2 frames, while a charged Eruption lasts about 5 frames. So it's easier to abuse the 1 frame with a charged Eruption, when they grab the ledge and aren't invincible.
Something I sometimes like to do, is to wait at the ledge, jump in the air and start charging Eruption. If they try to recover high, they will likely get hit by it and if they try to wait and recover low, Eruption is already charged and the longer lasting hitbox makes it for me a bit easier to punish this frame.
Not necessarily. Uncharged eruption is only 2 frames at the fire, but 7 frames at the sword. Charged is 5 frames at the fire and sword, and the sword hitbox doesn't reach as deep (around half the blade instead of to the tip).
 

Ikespike

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Not necessarily. Uncharged eruption is only 2 frames at the fire, but 7 frames at the sword. Charged is 5 frames at the fire and sword, and the sword hitbox doesn't reach as deep (around half the blade instead of to the tip).
Ah, thanks for the information. For me it always seemed, that the hitbox of a charged Eruption lasts a bit longer than the hitbox of an uncharged one, but I didn't know about two different lasting hitboxes. I looked it up in the moveset data, to be sure about it, but it seems that I was wrong.
 

McKnightlíght

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I find it useful for horizontal recoveries too, like Pacman, Charizard, Falcon, and when Zelda teleports almost completely horizontal. You can generally throw it out quick enough to catch someone off guard.
 

Arrei

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Well, edgeguarding with Eruption is usually less about catching them off guard and more about timing it so you brutally annihilate them and everything they hold dear in blazing azure flame.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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Okay, I have a great question to ask. Do you feel Ike has an easier time using Eruption on walled-stages as opposed to cornered stages, like Battlefield and Final Destination?

Are there any particular stages that Eruption works better on than others?

I'd like to know because I tried my best to time it well (and even early) against a Ness player today who kept going through it with PK Thunder.
 

Arrei

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Against characters that can use the wall as part of their recovery, no. That gives them stalling ability that can easily throw us off our timing.

Against characters that can't, yes, if only to cut down the chance that we get sharked through the stage.
 
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