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Kirby's approach options

Hi I'm Urban

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
52
So I've been playing kirby for quite a while now, but I still struggle with particular match ups. I was just curious how you guys manage to get in on characters like link/tink or ivysaur, as those are the match ups I've been struggling with in the neutral.

It's been very hard to get past a wall of projectiles only to be met with big disjoints. Funny enough, if it's one or the other I don't struggle too much. I do ok against Marth and Mario for the most part, but link and ivy are starting to become my Achilles heel.
 

Jethroo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
249
Location
Alabama
Against link you can duck under all his projectiles (as well as up b). Not sure about tink and you can clank with ivysaurs I believe. The razorleaf has a good bit of end lag as well so you can hop over it and punish him if you close enough.
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,615
Location
???
Stay close to him and keep the pressure on so they have to play your game instead of you playing theirs. Practice movement in general even tho I know its hard because Kirby is so slow and relies on telegraphed burst movement for more than half of everything if they play the matchup correctly, but good movement just really helps with everything. I spent the longest time in Melee and PM about this time last year just learning and grinding every movement trick out there.

SilentDoom made a post recently that I really liked in a thread called something like "How do I approach with Roy". To which he replied basically that usually when people ask that, they imply "What attack should I be approaching with" and then said you should focus more on movement, pressure, etc. in neutral instead of throwing out attacks. This was smash 4 Roy so approaching's a bit different, but I still liked the post so I thought I'd mention it.

Im sure these players wont mind, but here is one of my favorite videos of a Marth vs Link playing the matchup very correct. Look how Marth keeps the pressure on him so he wont get his stuff started. That same idea applies to Kirby as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ0VyO4Ny-c&index=9

As for good examples of movement, there is a bunch out there. There are so many different playstyles I cant say to just watch just one guy. Everyone has their own style and they should just hone that specific style instead of trying to copy someone else's. I personally like Plup's Melee sheik style of movement, its actually similar how Ive been moving for a while, but its nice seeing that movement on a character like Sheik who kinda translates well to Kirby imo, instead of how I use to say I had a Axe/Jeapie (Pika/Falcon) style of movement which didnt really translate well.
 
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Hi I'm Urban

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
52
Thanks for the reply, guys. Just wanted to note two things. One, kirby can duck link's boomerang and fully charged arrow but that's about it. He can duck a lot of his attacks too, so I've been approaching with fair to d-tilt. And two, kirby applies really good pressure when he gets in, I was just hoping for more options than dash attack off platforms and fair. My approaches have been a little predictable due to my options. I've been thinking of taking links arrows though, if nothing else you can back throw off stage to arrow gimp fairly easy
 

FreeGamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
584
Location
Dream Land
You have Dash Attack, running up and ducking, and your aerials. Inhale, Cutter Dash, and grabs are decent mixups to try every now and then.
 

Omadon

Internal Combustion Power
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
349
Location
Bristol, England.
Starting dash attacks at varied points on platforms so you can jump out of them sooner and bait stuff is good. I also find myself pretty much constantly crouching. Plus with link - catching items is much easier in PM (at least if feels that way) than in Melee. Arrow is super easy to dodge so the only ones to worry about are boomerang and the bomb, and you can kick the boomerang back with FAir.

That all said - if you do get in on Ivy. You probably know already that swallowing her gives you a full Solar Beam charge. What you might not know however is that forward throw into beam is almost guaranteed (I've never seen one get out of it, but then again I don't play many decent Ivys). Taunt cancelling to reset your neutral B is actually quite important in this match if you miss.

One thing I would like advice on though is ways to combo Ivy into swallow. I never spend enough time playing against one to think about it properly D:
 

Hi I'm Urban

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
52
Starting dash attacks at varied points on platforms so you can jump out of them sooner and bait stuff is good. I also find myself pretty much constantly crouching. Plus with link - catching items is much easier in PM (at least if feels that way) than in Melee. Arrow is super easy to dodge so the only ones to worry about are boomerang and the bomb, and you can kick the boomerang back with FAir.

That all said - if you do get in on Ivy. You probably know already that swallowing her gives you a full Solar Beam charge. What you might not know however is that forward throw into beam is almost guaranteed (I've never seen one get out of it, but then again I don't play many decent Ivys). Taunt cancelling to reset your neutral B is actually quite important in this match if you miss.

One thing I would like advice on though is ways to combo Ivy into swallow. I never spend enough time playing against one to think about it properly D:

I have gotten a little better at the link match up now that I'm ducking a lot of his stuff, fairing through his boomerang, and catching his bombs with more consitency. :)

As for the Ivy match-up, if I do get in, up-tilt to in-hale is super usefull. Oh, and yes, I've known about the f-throw to solar beam. I hope more kirbies start utulizing that :)

Oh, and as for dash attack approaches. I'm trying to use that sparingly. It really depends on who I'm playing against, but good players usually start punishing me hard for it, particularily characters with big grab ranges like ness. Which reminds me, does anyone here have solid ness match -up experience?
 
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Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,615
Location
???
There are Ivy's who get hit by Fthorw > Solarbeam? lmao

Its easily avoidable with DI down and away (assuming you are using it right out of fthrow). From experience everything (except for Kirby's Charge Shot from Samus which will catch away DI while towards DI can be comboed by other moves) can be DIed out of from fthrow. And its too slow to be unreactable. So yes Fthrow is bad/borderline unviable.
 
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Hi I'm Urban

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
52
They can DI out of f-throw, yes. But you can adjust to their DI with your waveland out of f-throw. Maybe I just haven't played any super good Ivys. And sure, it's not a true combo but if they aren't within reach for a solar beam, you can usually follow up with a fair if they DI away or an up-air or fair if they DI in. It puts Ivy in a bad spot either way.
 
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Omadon

Internal Combustion Power
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
349
Location
Bristol, England.
There are Ivy's who get hit by Fthorw > Solarbeam? lmao

Its easily avoidable with DI down and away (assuming you are using it right out of fthrow). From experience everything (except for Kirby's Charge Shot from Samus which will catch away DI while towards DI can be comboed by other moves) can be DIed out of from fthrow. And its too slow to be unreactable. So yes Fthrow is bad/borderline unviable.
Ha. Fair. Yeah - its such a niche matchup interaction that I've not played any of the Ivys around here enough for them to start adapting to it. Alas - the scene in southwest UK is garbage D:
 
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