Kirby the Duck - Ducking Viability and Discussion

ryuu seika

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#41
I'm new to Competitive smash so forgive me if I say something that is already known in the community. Since Dtilt trips people, against people who like to dash (lets use ZSS for example) I get a free hammer on reaction. since her dash moves dont hit kirby because of duck, that is one less approach you have to worry about. I love Dtilt as a poking tool.
Dtilt does not consistently trip people. If the RNG is against you, they get a free punish on that reactionary hammer.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#42
Dtilt does not consistently trip people. If the RNG is against you, they get a free punish on that reactionary hammer.
I usually fit in two D-Tilts to try to trip them if I go that route, and if they don't trip, retreating F-Air, Jab, or a Grab can usually save you.
 

GUNSHOT

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#43
Dtilt does not consistently trip people. If the RNG is against you, they get a free punish on that reactionary hammer.
Hmmm, I see It is not consistent. there are more safe options like 2 Dtilts lol but since i'm actively looking for a trip every time I press Dtilt (so I do not let any punish go unpunished) If they don't trip when I press it, they will just slide back and my follow up would be different. Sometimes they trip but they are not close enough to hammer so I don't use it and i'll use Ftilt instead It will not work all the time. But its an option I guess.
 

Bottlecap

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#44
He can crouch under Din's fire to avoid setting off the projectile but can still be hit if it explodes above or near him. Infact, he can crouch and/or Usmash under much of Zelda's moveset, including her supposedly highly powerful throws, as well as being able to Inhale or even Jumping Inhale (weird because it has no vacuum) her through the phantom, totally screwing her over if she tries to edgeguard with it (free swallowcide). I have a feeling Kirby simply owns Zelda in this game.
As a Zelda main, I was wondering if Kirby could duck under Zelda's pivot roll canceled grab? I'm fairly new to competitive smash but I do know her grab range when executing this is rumored to be a bit off of the ground.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#45
As a Zelda main, I was wondering if Kirby could duck under Zelda's pivot roll canceled grab? I'm fairly new to competitive smash but I do know her grab range when executing this is rumored to be a bit off of the ground.
I can test this for you, but I have no idea how to do a roll canceled pivot grab.
 

Phan7om

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#47
If Kirby can duck under Fox's grab, which he could never do before, he should be able to duck under Zelda's since he could before.
 

Bottlecap

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#48
I'm pretty sure a roll cancelled grab consists of pressing A during the startup of your roll but I don't know at what point you'd hold back to pivot it.
There's a thread in the Zelda forum that explains it. (Im not sure if you can link threads or not?) The range her grab gets off of this is insane and can grab a large range of aerial moves and approaches. I for sure know the pivot is... pivotal because her grab range is not extended with a regular roll canceled grab and if it is, it's easily not as drastic. If I can recall someone speculated the range of her grab with an image in the thread I referenced and the range was slightly above the ground, so that's why I came here.

Sorry for the messy replies, I'm on my phone.

Edit: oops I thought you said the pivot was not essential. Oh well.
 
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ryuu seika

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#49
If Kirby can duck under Fox's grab, which he could never do before, he should be able to duck under Zelda's since he could before.
He can duck under Zelda's standard, dash and probably dash attack cancelled and roll cancelled grabs but her roll cancelled pivot grab is supposedly insane in this game so that will require testing.

EDIT: I found the thread in question and it's less of a pivot that I thought. It's just a roll cancelled into a grab where the user happens to have been dashing in the other direction first. It looks like this causes a grabbox shifting glitch, relocating her grab range further from her hurtbox but not actually changing the size of it all that much (I could be wrong).

From the mock up they've given, it looks to hit pretty low but, if anything, it'll probably only hit Kirby on his high crouch frames or phantom hit him.
Proper testing is, however, required.
 
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#50
Just talking about all the stuff Kirby can potentially duck, since he can duck Fox's grab. I wasnt saying Kirby couldnt be touched or anything.
Oh I see. I did not mean to come off harsh/rude. I did some test with Fox and we can only dodge Grab, Utilt, Ftilt and the leap part of Fsmash.

Wait, how do you perform a trip to Hammer? Isn't the hammer too slow (before the setup and swing)?
 
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GUNSHOT

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#51
Wait, how do you perform a trip to Hammer? Isn't the hammer too slow (before the setup and swing)?
Its almost like hit confirming in sf. If you trip them and do the hammer after, it combos. you have to be quick though. I got it a lot of times in matches
 
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#52
Its almost like hit confirming in sf. If you trip them and do the hammer after, it combos. you have to be quick though. I got it a lot of times in matches
Oh that's cool. That will make kills easier. So if you predict you get a trip, you buffer the hammer? Hmm.. I need to test this out. I recall tripping give people invincible frame if they roll. Most players roll away so you can hard read into Half charge Hammer. TO THE LAB!
 

Jiggly

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#53
discussion more like duckscussion

Also I'm pretty sure Kirby's crouch is better than Jigglypuff's in every way. So that video is a really helpful starting point.
Except jigglypuff can crouch SH rest lots of moves, but beside having a huge offensive boost, there isn't much.
 

Phan7om

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#54
Im very confident trip hammer does NOT work, anyone can roll away. If you're hitting it, idk what your opponent is doing.
 

Sugawolf

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#55
Trip does pretty consistently lead into a Fsmash if they trip close enough to you. Although landing it when you really need it (At kill %s) is a totally different story with the lag on FG. :/
 
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#56
Im very confident trip hammer does NOT work, anyone can roll away. If you're hitting it, idk what your opponent is doing.
Sigh I figure as much.
Trip does pretty consistently lead into a Fsmash if they trip close enough to you. Although landing it when you really need it (At kill %s) is a totally different story with the lag on FG. :/
Yeah I noticed this. Though Fsmash comes out slow. I usually just Upsmash them.
 

GUNSHOT

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#57
Im very confident trip hammer does NOT work, anyone can roll away. If you're hitting it, idk what your opponent is doing.
I just tested it out, it doesn't work. Why was it landing? I guess its because it was online :( but oh well Fsmash, Ftilt etc works better and is more reliable sorry.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#58
Kirby can duck under quite a lot of Captain Falcon's moves.

While this isn't a full list, so far I've seen that he can duck under...

Dash Attack, Dash Grab, Grab, F-Tilt, D-Smash, F-Smash, Jab, Falcon Punch, and Falcon Kick (front foot, his knee he puts below will still hit you)

The MU also seems to be pretty easy for Kirby, as Falcon's a fast faller, making him more prone to U-Tilt strings.
 

Augi Jr.

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#59
From what Ive seen, Kirby can also duck under most of Megaman's projectiles, except for sawblade (just shield) and leafs, he can duck under the regular bullets and the sticky-bomb (megaman campers bread and butter). He can also duck under his side-smash uncharged (he may be able to duck under a fully charged if he's right next to him)
 
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Rochette

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#61
I don't own the game yet but directional smash still existing I suppose ?

I saw Asdioh's videos against a Sonic for finals. Asdioh lands a Fsmash against his opponent but touch only his shield. With directional down that Fsmash could have make a KO. When shield isn't full, it don't cover feet.

So, when Kirby duck he could be touched in the same way by some attacks.

:kirby:
 

C.O.M.M

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#62
Does the Wii-U have different hit boxes for some attacks when Kirby is ducking? Cuz I was playing a Little Mac and his KO punch connected when Kirby was ducking. I tested this again in training and got the same result.

I wonder if this was patched in 1.0.4 or if the Wii-U hit boxes are somehow different but I have no idea.
 

Asdioh

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#63
I think I've said this before but Kirby has a 'breathing" idle animation when ducking. It makes him rise slightly. This makes dodging something as important as KO punch inconsistent, it becomes a gamble. I'm pretty sure that if you duck the instant before the KO punch, you're at your "lowest" point so you'll avoid it, but if you just sit there and hope he whiffs, it's probably about 50/50.
 

gameplayzero

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#64
Alright so I "lazily" made a list on what kirby can duck under against the most popular characters used at tourneys. Yes I included aerials, because why not. I'll do the whole cast later, but right now the priority are the characters used most often. I know some of these are somewhat useless to duck against, but its nice to know at least. Some of these were mentioned before as well, but I like to double check. Any issues, let me know. ZSS was already discussed and I'm feeling too lazy since almost all of her grounded moves can be ducked under.

Shiek

First hit of the jab

needles

forward smash (if you are touching her body or if the first hit misses)

nair

bair





Rosalina

jab (including luma)

forward smash (luma too)

up smash (without luma)

luma shot

nair

fair

(I didn't test out Luma attack's without Rosalina because I forgot. Regardless its rather pointless to do so)





Captain Falcon

jab

fair

nair

falcon punch

forward tilt

down smash (if you are in front of him while doing it. His back kick has a lower hit box)

forward smash

recovery lol



Diddy Kong

Forward smash (when touching him)

up smash

all specials (not banana at close range)

up tilt



Robin


Forward tilt (they have to be at a perfect range to get the hit off)

up tilt

forward smash

up smash

all neutral bs


CHARACTER'S YOU DON'T WANT TO DUCK AGAINST

Shulk


First two hits of the jab

Ness

(no moves at all)

Sonic

(I just gave up. All of his moves hit kirby)
 

Freezie KO

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#69
I was playing Kirby today and had a lot of success against Zero Suit. Her dash attack and stun spam can both be ducked. Kirby's got some cool tricks. Power to you Kirby mains out there.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#71
F-Smash, Grab, Disable, Shadow Ball (if you're lucky with the curve), Dash Attack (?), F-Tilt (up angled) Jab 1

That's it, as far as I know. The only things worth ducking under are F-Smash, Grab and Jab 1, though.
 

KingDaiGurren

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#72
F-Smash, Grab, Disable, Shadow Ball (if you're lucky with the curve), Dash Attack (?), F-Tilt (up angled) Jab 1

That's it, as far as I know. The only things worth ducking under are F-Smash, Grab and Jab 1, though.
Why not disable? I feel like you could get good punishes off of a whiffed disable. Shielding shadow ball seems like a better idea though. Even though it kills your shield I'd rather not take the chance.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#73
Mewtwo won't be throwing out Disable at random trying to hit you with it. To avoid Disable, all you need to do is turn around then reverse a F-Smash or Hammer. Mewtwo would probably prefer getting Disable off jab 1, which doesn't work on Kirby because he's so short.
 

Aunt Jemima

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#74
A moderator just double posted, omigod.

Anyways, this thread most likely won't be needed. It won't be locked as in the future when DLC characters come out 'n stuff it'll be useful, but this is going to be combined in with the general moveset thread. Crouching doesn't really have enough discussion going to warrant a thread, let alone a sticky.
 

Dessa

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#75
Tested Kirby's duck data vs Ryu:


Weak Jab: No
Strong Jab: No

W. Ftilt: No
S. Ftilt: Yes, unless he's right next to Kirby, then it whiffs.

W. Utilt: No
S. Utilt: No

W. Dtilt: Yes
S. Dtilt: Yes

Fsmash: No
Dsmash: Yes
Usmash: Yes, while close

Nair: Yes
Fair: Yes
Dair: Yes
Uair: No
Bair: No

Grab: No, except during Kirby's tall frame.

W. Neutral B: No
S. Neutral B: No

W. UpB: No
S. UpB: No

W. DownB: Probably No?
S. DownB: Usually No, though I managed to make it hit once somehow, and can't repeat it.

W. SideB: No
S. SideB: No

And this goes for all the specials performed via SF-Style inputs as well.

So it looks like Kirby avoids ALL of Ryu's specials and over half of his normals, including all but three of his standing attacks.

This is looking like a kind matchup on paper.
 

T Luthor

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#79
With the 1.1.0 is it possible to duck under a move (E.g ZSS dash attack) if they go for a follow up grab, is it possible to quickly pivot and start an Up tilt chain?
 
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#80
In case nobody has said this yet, Wii FIt Trainer's grab box is a lot bigger than it used to be. It's still possible to duck her grab, but she'll be able to land it much easier now, even while we're crouching.
 
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