Kirby Matchups

[Oblivion11]

Was going to make this specific to Zero Suit Samus, but might as well have a discussion thread.

Not sure if anyone else has played the match-up vs her, but no one online seems to know what to do. Kirby's crouch pretty much negates most of her ground game, and you can't even be grabbed. I would say it's highly favorable for him from what I've seen so far.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

does his crouch avoid her fully charged paralyzer and the grab? Please explain the match up!

 

[JipC]

Kirby ducks under Fox's dash attack. Dunno if he could do this before but it's so useful
I've found that ducking/dtilting in general is really, REALLY good. Especially against ROB and Fox.

 

[WootSnorlax]

Crouching against Ganon is hilarious also. You can duck under most of his attacks like his jab, f-tilt, and his wizard foot down special. I think most characters you can duck their grab too.

 

[Oblivion11]

does his crouch avoid her fully charged paralyzer and the grab? Please explain the match up!

I'm pretty sure it does, as her blaster doesn't get much bigger when charged, and her grab doesn't reach you on the ground. Overall it seems to be extremely in Kirby's favor, except she does have quite the air game as well with her 2 potential jumps.

I've been hitting a wall with some Lucario's online though. He seems to just outclass Kirby entirely. I got grabbed at 80% and his forward throw killed me.

 

[WootSnorlax]

Yeah, Lucario is a pretty hard match up for Kirby. If you don't gimp him really early he's just going to get back to the stage. Approaching is hard too. What I find that works are to mix up arial approaches and grabs, but even still that's hard. I need more match-up experience though because I beat all the Lucario's that I have played.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

It's funny when megaman tries to spam projectiles. Kirby can duck under the crash bomb, destroy the metal blade with a punch, and I think I've had him duck under the uncharged smash attack as well. Feels like the only move that's actually risky to cope with is Megaman's Up-Air, if you make a mistake you can get launched high, however stone cuts through it.

As for zero suit samus, I think you're wrong about ducking under her grab. I kept getting grabbed despite ducking

 

[Oblivion11]

It's funny when megaman tries to spam projectiles. Kirby can duck under the crash bomb, destroy the metal blade with a punch, and I think I've had him duck under the uncharged smash attack as well. Feels like the only move that's actually risky to cope with is Megaman's Up-Air, if you make a mistake you can get launched high, however stone cuts through it.

As for zero suit samus, I think you're wrong about ducking under her grab. I kept getting grabbed despite ducking

It's very possible that there is a specific zone the hurtbox and grab hitbox collide, I imagine maybe when you are right next to her? She has never grabbed me at range but I don't remember too well of being close enough for a point-blank grab.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

No I was at range.

 

[Unknownkid]

I can vouch that you can duck ZSS's attacks and grab. Must be a certain range or hitbox to get grab.You can even punch her paralyzer blast and nullify it. Can you duck her Side-B though?

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

You can also spin dash through the uncharged paralyzer shot believe, but that's risky.

 

[Asdioh]

Yoshi 100% beats the hell out of Kirby in this game. Rather than relying on pivot grabs like in Brawl, he just runs away with his superior airspeed, superior ground speed, superior jump speed, and camps with his great projectile. Even if you do get in close to him you have to be careful, because Nair and Jab can be used as combo breakers, and all of his aerials have weird disjoints and beat things they feel like they shouldn't.

Kirby can do well against some of the characters that are seeing some popularity right now, like Mac, Bowser, Robin, and Shulk, but he retains his Brawl problem. Any character that can outrun Kirby and camp him has an advantage. I thought projectiles were nerfed pretty hard in this game (look at Fox and Falco) but obviously it wasn't done consistently, if you look at characters like Sheik and Yoshi, who don't have insane lag upon using their projectiles. The plus side with Sheik is at least you can Copy the needles and outcamp her, but I haven't found a solution for characters like Yoshi. If Kirby just had faster movespeed and airspeed that would pretty much be all he needed... same as in Brawl.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Greninja feels like a real nightmare to take on as Kirby. Every time I see one I end up dreading having to fight it. Very fast on the ground, with fast attacks that seem to out range you. It's also fairly dangerous to even try to copy it. It gets positioned right above you for an easy down air. It seems it can easily can easily out maneuver Kirby on the ground and in the air too. I'm finding that if I win people either switch to little mac or Greninja. Any of you finding these issues with greninja?

On the other hand, Kirby's combo ability and mobility seems to absolutely tear through the big heavies.

 

[FreeGamer]

I'm calling it now: Kirby is gonna have terribad matchups against fast characters. There's only so much he can do when he moves so slow that he makes Ganon and Bowser look fast, and he has no good options to deal with keepaway. -_-

 

[Oblivion11]

@ FreeGamer

I've been able to mash out Nair sometimes when getting comboed or even get a grab to break the momentum. Other than that, I agree, fast characters are a bit rough. Patience seems to have been helping me beat them, and baiting them out so I can punish.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Maybe it's just me, but Kirby isn't that great against Marth. Marth is faster overall compared to Kirby, has longer range than him, and hits harder than him. It's not completely horrible, like Yoshi or Greninja, but it's still hard. His attacks usually come out before Kirby's, and also have more priority. The only easy thing about him is that you can D-Air spike his Dolphin Slash if you SH then RAR it while he's trying to get back on the stage, as you'll hit is head instead of being hit by the sword. If you grab him by the ledge while he's at 0%, you can get a 0 to death by doing F-Throw to F-Air (off-stage) then stringing F-Airs (two more usually does the trick) until he can't get back on the stage.

shield breaker is a good copy ability tho

 

[Sugawolf]

Anyone else find pacman really annoying?

You can't sidestep his grab and he can easily kill you with a back throw at around %115 at the edge of FD. It seems like all of his attacks out-prioritize ours and that damn fire hydrant makes it such a pain to approach him. I guess it helps that you can swallow his fruit and keys to heal yourself but even that leaves you open for punishment if he's near enough. I also find it helpful to knock his own fire hydrant towards him since no one in for glory seems to expect it.

 

[Asdioh]

Any of you finding these issues with greninja?

Yes, since day 1 my friend has been maining Greninja and it was easy to tell that he beats Kirby. Runspeed, attack speed, and a lot of his moves have unusually good priority. His upsmash also seems like it magnetically attracts me to get hit by it.
Mac is easy though, you just need to learn how to abuse him. Stay in the air with your five jumps, and there's not much he can do about it.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Yeah I'm learning to handle macs, thanks to practicing with a decent mac player. This morning I two stocked a couple macs on for glory

But greninja is always a nightmare and I always dread it.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Anyone else find pacman really annoying?

You can't sidestep his grab and he can easily kill you with a back throw at around %115 at the edge of FD. It seems like all of his attacks out-prioritize ours and that damn fire hydrant makes it such a pain to approach him. I guess it helps that you can swallow his fruit and keys to heal yourself but even that leaves you open for punishment if he's near enough. I also find it helpful to knock his own fire hydrant towards him since no one in for glory seems to expect it.

I've been grabbed repeatedly my pac-man's standing grab when it looked like I should have been out of range. It's very frustrating! As for kicking things back, people who use Duck hunt, also don't seem to expect it when you kick their exploding box back at them either. I've even Ko'd a Dedede by kicking back his Gordo with a forward air. It looked cool as hell.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Okay, people have becoming more aware of this, lol.

You'll want to be careful against characters such as Diddy Kong and R.O.B. who can spawn in items that Kirby can eat, because they can intentionally throw them at Kirby while he's inhaling, and while Kirby does recover 1%, he also is put into the animation where he swallows it, which leaves him open. I was about to Kirbycide a Diddy Kong, and he used the Peanut Popgun hit-stun cancel while I was about to inhale and ended up with me falling to my death.

 

[FreeGamer]

@ FreeGamer

I've been able to mash out Nair sometimes when getting comboed or even get a grab to break the momentum. Other than that, I agree, fast characters are a bit rough. Patience seems to have been helping me beat them, and baiting them out so I can punish.

What kinds of stuff do you do? Jump around to bait an attack, then D-Air them or something? Maybe it's me derping with 3DS controls, but I have a hard time doing that. Jab seems to be pretty helpful for escaping pressure too.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

This'll definetally change the match-up for the better - Kirby can cancel all landing lag while using Shulk's copy ability!

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-shulk-advanced-technique-aerial-landing-lag-cancel.371699/

 

[Oblivion11]

What kinds of stuff do you do? Jump around to bait an attack, then D-Air them or something? Maybe it's me derping with 3DS controls, but I have a hard time doing that. Jab seems to be pretty helpful for escaping pressure too.

Pretty much, or try to throw back-airs on shield because they are fairly safe, and forward can be pretty safe if you get a quick land into an f-tilt, but if they know it's coming they'll grab ya.

Luigi is pretty terror versus Kirby as well I think. His aerials are so fast compared to Kirby's, and have a lot of priority over his.

And on the inhaling items thing, I hate it. I swallowed a Villager's forward air and then he forward smashed me, was so upsetting lol.

 

[Asdioh]

You can swallow the slingshot projectile? ._. that's annoying

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

We may have to make a list of every attack he can swallow too ._. Wish we could eat luma.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

It doesn't seem like you can cancel hit-stun with Diddy Kong's Neutral B...

That would have made him a lot easier, lol.

We may have to make a list of every attack he can swallow too ._. Wish we could eat luma.

LOL

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I'd say kirby can handle a greninja and marth if he plays it safe and approaches safely. you can space out a greninja, and bait out one of his punishable moves, like shadow sneak.

I've been on FG since day 1 and playing good players online in FB as well. I've seen no problems for kirby, some might be an uphill battle like greninja but he can be beat, same with shiek.

the problem for kirby imo, is yoshi. I fought a really good Japanese yoshi, and nearly took him out but my circle pad made me hammer instead of up-b to recover. But the speed, the Jab to get you out of his face, the Up-B sniping, with the teleport mixup, the up-smash, and the yoshi setups he has make him a problem for kirby.

I'd also say lucina, and toon link, peach and jiggly/anubis are rather annoying to deal with given their aerial priority and they can weave in and out as much as i can in the air. Lucario is straight up dangerous if you dont gimp or have a fresh kill move ready.

As for the rest of the cast i'd say he does pretty well. some uphill, but doable imo. I have a pretty good kirby so you can match me if you think i dont know what i'm talking about.

As for marth i treat him like the brawl MU and i do pretty well since all i did was fight marths in brawl. (and of course doesn't deal 20% with f-smash like its free, like how lucina can do).

 

[Unknownkid]

Wait... why is Lucina more difficult than Marth? Besides, one being a rush down character and another is more space orientated. Should it be the other way around? Essentially, I like for you to explain this match up in more detail.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Wait... why is Lucina more difficult than Marth? Besides, one being a rush down character and another is more space orientated. Should it be the other way around? Essentially, I like for you to explain this match up in more detail.

Sure. One word tipper. Thats what sets them apart. Its easier for lucina to K.O. kirby at lower %'s than marth, who's tipper has a slightly smaller window so you wont get tipped the whole time in an actual match. Also i feel like she's slightly faster. Both are nearly identical however lucina has a slight adv. because of her kill potential. If a kirby were to face a good spacing marth, he'd know to get in up close and personal and if he gets hit, likely he wont be hit with a tipper. But if he goes with that mindset with lucina, a simple hit (f-smash) could be a kill move at 90%'s with no vector. That's why i feel lucina is slightly better because kirby can space a marth, but with lucina rushing him down, it'll be hard to deal with because lucina has higher priority and a good ground game and can kill kirby faster than a marth could. also lucina can space as well and deal the same dmg every time, with marth, he'll have to try for tips, which a player will expect and try to avoid.

Mainly i'm trying to say the knockback potential is more guaranteed with lucina than it is with marth. so kirby will have a bit more trouble with lucina, because he's lightweight and she can kill him early. when kirby can play keep away from a marth or rush him down. With lucina he'll have to play safer and deal with the pressure. he cant exactly rush her down because she'll be doing just that, and she'll win the trades most likely.

imo.

 

[Oblivion11]

I haven't played vs Marth, but I definitely understand what you mean. Lucina was pretty frustrating the first time I faced her but since then I've gotten a bit better at the MU. I love Kirby but I feel like his matchups are either great or bad, never really even.

 

[Unknownkid]

Sure. One word tipper. Thats what sets them apart. Its easier for lucina to K.O. kirby at lower %'s than marth, who's tipper has a slightly smaller window so you wont get tipped the whole time in an actual match. Also i feel like she's slightly faster. Both are nearly identical however lucina has a slight adv. because of her kill potential. If a kirby were to face a good spacing marth, he'd know to get in up close and personal and if he gets hit, likely he wont be hit with a tipper. But if he goes with that mindset with lucina, a simple hit (f-smash) could be a kill move at 90%'s with no vector. That's why i feel lucina is slightly better because kirby can space a marth, but with lucina rushing him down, it'll be hard to deal with because lucina has higher priority and a good ground game and can kill kirby faster than a marth could. also lucina can space as well and deal the same dmg every time, with marth, he'll have to try for tips, which a player will expect and try to avoid.

Mainly i'm trying to say the knockback potential is more guaranteed with lucina than it is with marth. so kirby will have a bit more trouble with lucina, because he's lightweight and she can kill him early. when kirby can play keep away from a marth or rush him down. With lucina he'll have to play safer and deal with the pressure. he cant exactly rush her down because she'll be doing just that, and she'll win the trades most likely.

imo.

Hmm... yeah. I thought so in the back of my head. Thank you for clarification.

 

[C.O.M.M]

Decent Kirby Player (67% win rate on FG) and new to the forums! Nice to meet you all! ^_^

Kirby seems to match pretty good against Sonic, despite being fast Kirby's inhale shuts down his spin-dashing abilities a fair bit, homing attack can be a pain but manageable with shielding and what not. I've beaten tons of Sonic players both mediocre and great by shutting down their ground game with inhale.


Also, I seem to have the most problems fighting Rosalina as Kirby, I try to draw Luma away before making a dash for Rosalina but it seems all her moves have priority over every single one of mine, any tips of ideas on how to generally fight Rosalina?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Decent Kirby Player (67% win rate on FG) and new to the forums! Nice to meet you all! ^_^

Kirby seems to match pretty good against Sonic, despite being fast Kirby's inhale shuts down his spin-dashing abilities a fair bit, homing attack can be a pain but manageable with shielding and what not. I've beaten tons of Sonic players both mediocre and great by shutting down their ground game with inhale.


Also, I seem to have the most problems fighting Rosalina as Kirby, I try to draw Luma away before making a dash for Rosalina but it seems all her moves have priority over every single one of mine, any tips of ideas on how to generally fight Rosalina?

Yeah, Sonic is shut down real hard by Kirby's Inhale. I recommend grabbing Homing Attack, as it's a kill moves at higher percents. I usually U-Tilt or U-Throw at higher percents and jump in with a homing attack to grab a kill off Sonic. That, or just go and Kirbycide.

Rosalina is really hard for me to fight, to be honest. It's possible to beat her, but she's insanely hard to actually approach. I recommend stalling in the air until she thinks you're coming down (be careful about this!), then when she does something such as an U-Smash, go in with a D-Air and punish her. Also, Luma Shot (or whatever the move is called) is a decent Copy Ability. Most Rosalina players don't know how to deal with it for some reason, lol. Also, her recovery doesn't actually attack, and if Luma is with her, he's put into a helpless state, too. Try to edgeguard her during that time, or D-Air spike her.

Also, may I ask how much matches you've had in total?

 

[C.O.M.M]

Yeah, Sonic is shut down real hard by Kirby's Inhale. I recommend grabbing Homing Attack, as it's a kill moves at higher percents. I usually U-Tilt or U-Throw at higher percents and jump in with a homing attack to grab a kill off Sonic. That, or just go and Kirbycide.

Rosalina is really hard for me to fight, to be honest. It's possible to beat her, but she's insanely hard to actually approach. I recommend stalling in the air until she thinks you're coming down (be careful about this!), then when she does something such as an U-Smash, go in with a D-Air and punish her. Also, Luma Shot (or whatever the move is called) is a decent Copy Ability. Most Rosalina players don't know how to deal with it for some reason, lol. Also, her recovery doesn't actually attack, and if Luma is with her, he's put into a helpless state, too. Try to edgeguard her during that time, or D-Air spike her.

Also, may I ask how much matches you've had in total?

I've played 487 matches (as of this post) on For Glory, I don't play other modes as much.

Thanks for the advice regarding Rosalina, I will keep your tips in mind when I confront her again.

 

[Sugawolf]

Yeah, Sonic is shut down real hard by Kirby's Inhale. I recommend grabbing Homing Attack, as it's a kill moves at higher percents. I usually U-Tilt or U-Throw at higher percents and jump in with a homing attack to grab a kill off Sonic. That, or just go and Kirbycide.

Personally, I think keeping inhale is more beneficial in this match up. Although I could see the use of grabbing homing attack when sonic is at higher percentages and tossing the hat once you K.O him.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Personally, I think keeping inhale is more beneficial in this match up. Although I could see the use of grabbing homing attack when sonic is at higher percentages and tossing the hat once you K.O him.

Yeah, Inhale is better to keep throughout the match. However, when he's at kill percents, I usually take it.

 

[WootSnorlax]

Is Rosalina and Luma really a difficult matchup? Maybe I haven't played against a really good one yet but I've ended up treating the match as if I was playing against ICs. Luma is really easy to hit away and since you're Kirby with amazing edge guarding you can just juggle Luma off the stage. Even if you can't kill Luma you can at least peel it away from Rosalina and then approach her.

I agree with everyone on Kirby having hard matchups against fast characters though. Especially characters that have arial moves that just come out faster. Kirby's only fast arial would be bair and even then you aren't always in a favorable position to use it all the time.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Is Rosalina and Luma really a difficult matchup? Maybe I haven't played against a really good one yet but I've ended up treating the match as if I was playing against ICs. Luma is really easy to hit away and since you're Kirby with amazing edge guarding you can just juggle Luma off the stage. Even if you can't kill Luma you can at least peel it away from Rosalina and then approach her.

I just finished a group of matches with a (what I like to assume) good Rosalina player. I managed to split it 4-3, and learned that this matchup hurts Kirby, but has some silver linings.

First, F-Air from Rosa just stuffs Kirby on the spot, and the Lumas added range just makes life hard to hit Rosa. In fact, a lot of Rosa's aerials just clobber the puffball, if not all of them. Kirby does have some options, though. I found that using Kirby's still great knockback was the best way to even the odds. Getting rid of the Luma was surprisingly easy, thanks to the knockback. Afterwards that Luma is gone, then go after Rosalina like bats out of hell, as the expression goes. A fair amount of her attacks can be punished, but it is up to timing and such to do so.

It isn't a really bad matchup, but it is a matchup that isn't giving Kirby much favors, imo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

[Sugawolf]

Since we're just discussing random MU's (When do you all think we should start a more structured discussion btw?) I'm gonna go ahead and bring up Pikachu. I just fought roughly 20 FG matches against a pretty good one so I might as well post what I found. He only beat me once, but he definitely put up some really good fights.

By far the most annoying thing for me was his F-air. It comes out so quick and has good priority and combo potential. I think I traded F-airs a few times but it was near impossible to do if I was trying to get back on the stage. Speaking of which, gimping Pikachu is the biggest pain in the ass. His UpB gives him so many options to return to the stage. Not that it's impossible, I did manage to get a few kills off stage, but it definitely isn't as reliable as with other characters. It also doesn't help that Pikachu is such a tiny target so getting him with a sweet spotted B-air is just that much harder (although the lag on FG could partially be blamed for that). Another thing I noticed was that his Ftilt comes out really fast, and he can combo it from a Bair almost instantly (Not sure, but I don't think Pikas Bair has much landing lag). I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't think you can DI out of Pikas Dsmash anymore either and it kills at about 130%. Also, I'm pretty sure I was killed by his Nair at around 130% as well (albeit near the ledge), so be weary of that.

Now the good news is that he can be killed with smashes at pretty low percentages and thunder bolt can easily be jumped over which usually forces him to approach. I found that keeping to the air and FF nairs -> jabs/tilts did wonders to rack up damage, but I'm pretty sure that works well for almost any MU. Dair -> Dsmash works great against him too. All and all I found that the best strategy was to keep to the air to avoid the thunder bolts and bait him to approach. As long as you can avoid his Fair it shouldn't be too hard to rack up damage and finish him with a Dair -> Dsmash or a well placed Bair. Essentially, its almost the same MU as in Brawl.