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Killing Insects

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#HBC | Dark Horse

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As you know, most people disaprove of killing cows to get meat. However, I haven't seen one person care about the killing of insects.

Insects are animals. Cows are also animals. Shouldn't we care about them both?

Lots of people kill insects (see here for proof), and probably some vegetarians. They even kill the harmless ones!

Even though there are lots of insects, they might run out. Why don't we care about insects?
 

Kirbyoshi

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I actually lol'd when I saw this topic. But you do make a good point. I've always thought of it like this: the ugly, defenseless animals get no love, but the fairly cute animals who could kill you if they wanted, are the ones everyone wants to protect.

On the topic of population, I don't think bugs are going to go extinct any time soon, unless everyone makes it their life goal to kill as many bugs as possible. They reproduce like crazy, and it's possible that if we don't kill them, they could take over (don't laugh, that's actually the case with deer).
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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On the topic of population, I don't think bugs are going to go extinct any time soon, unless everyone makes it their life goal to kill as many bugs as possible. They reproduce like crazy, and it's possible that if we don't kill them, they could take over (don't laugh, that's actually the case with deer).
Yes, I know about the deer (they also did something similar with rabbits In Austrailia). However, we use to think that gas was never going to run out, and look now. The world, in total, is probably killing bugs faster than they can reproduce.
 

Dre89

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I know I'm being picky here, but bug isn't the right term. I'm assuming you're talking about insects in general.

I actually lol'd when I saw this topic. But you do make a good point. I've always thought of it like this: the ugly, defenseless animals get no love, but the fairly cute animals who could kill you if they wanted, are the ones everyone wants to protect.
Which is exactly the problem with animal-rights arguments.

The perfect example is the whaling going on in Japan. Back here in Australia everyone wants it to stop, yet no one cares that countless cows get slaughtered every year for their personal nutrition.

And I doubt bugs are going to go extinct, considering they outnumber all other animals by the millions. Beetles alone (although most people don't really know what defines a beetle) have something like 30 000 or 300 000 species (can't remember which one).
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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I know I'm being picky here, but bug isn't the right term. I'm assuming you're talking about insects in general.
I am. "Bugs" was just the first thing that came to mind when I typed this.

The perfect example is the whaling going on in Japan. Back here in Australia everyone wants it to stop, yet no one cares that countless cows get slaughtered every year for their personal nutrition.
But some people do care about those cows. But nobody cares about insects.

And I doubt bugs are going to go extinct, considering they outnumber all other animals by the millions. Beetles alone (although most people don't really know what defines a beetle) have something like 30 000 or 300 000 species (can't remember which one).
I have to admit, maybe it was a stretch mentioning "extinction".
 

Kirbyoshi

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Again, this really doesn't affect the topic, but one of the first things that came to my mind when I read the title was spiders. So I'm not talking just about insects :p
 

Dre89

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I am. "Bugs" was just the first thing that came to mind when I typed this.
Technically, 'bug' refers to only to a certain type of insect, namely those with straw-like tubes to suck up juice, blood etc.

The other predominant type is 'beetles', which generally refer to those with jaws for chewing.

Now there are species outside of these two categories, such as dragonflies, but the majority of insects are either bugs or beetles.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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Technically, 'bug' refers to only to a certain type of insect, namely those with straw-like tubes to suck up juice, blood etc.

The other predominant type is 'beetles', which generally refer to those with jaws for chewing.

Now there are species outside of these two categories, such as dragonflies, but the majority of insects are either bugs or beetles.
I know. There's also the fact that most people call beetles and dragonflies and other insects like that "bugs"

Edit: Fixed. Happy?
 

Rizen

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As you know, most people disaprove of killing cows to get meat.
"As you [the reader] know..."? Why are you leading in a subjective discussion about killing bugs with a statement with no measurable evidence suggesting most people disprove of killing cows?

Insects are animals. Cows are also animals. Shouldn't we care about them both?

Lots of people kill insects (see here for proof), and probably some vegetarians. They even kill the harmless ones!

Even though there are lots of insects, they might run out. Why don't we care about insects?
This is state with the assumption that people don't care about killing insects. People do, but insect is such a wide category. The disappearance of pollinating bees is a huge environmental and economical concern. Or do you mean 'pests' which does not include protected and endangered species? Some Tibetan monks will sweep the path in front of them to avoid stepping on bugs etc. Some people kill insects, other people kill some and save others, others kill for convenience. You're asking a closed question to an open audience. Insects are not technically animals.

I know I'm being picky here, but bug isn't the right term. I'm assuming you're talking about insects in general.



Which is exactly the problem with animal-rights arguments.

The perfect example is the whaling going on in Japan. Back here in Australia everyone wants it to stop, yet no one cares that countless cows get slaughtered every year for their personal nutrition.

And I doubt bugs are going to go extinct, considering they outnumber all other animals by the millions. Beetles alone (although most people don't really know what defines a beetle) have something like 30 000 or 300 000 species (can't remember which one).
I think the term is being used loosely and not as 'true bugs'. Somehow cows keep entering the conversation. Cows are a weird subject, Gary Larson knows it. Whales vs cow or insects vs cows as a topic must include that cows are a large (too large in my opinion) part of many countries' agricultural industries. Cows are economically seen as a commodity. People have a preference for milk and beef that exceeds the natural balance to the point where rain forests and other natural lands are destroyed and converted into pastures. This changes the ecosystem, water cycle, etc but I'm wandering off topic. Short answer: we raise cows to kill them.
But some people do care about those cows. But nobody cares about insects.



I have to admit, maybe it was a stretch mentioning "extinction".
'Nobody' is a strong word. Some people care. Many species go extinct every day, in that sense it wasn't a stretch.

------------------------------

I don't know what you're asking. Here's my personal 2 cents:
There's a lot of bugs etc out there, stepping on one doesn't bother me. I don't think it would upset a natural balance. It's a convenience/preference matter; I admit it. Bugs I don't like are more likely to be squished crossing my path. People don't have the capacity to care about every other living thing. Que sera sera.
 

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Arizen said:
Insects are not technically animals.
Not true. Biologically, everything in kingdom Animalia is considered an animal.

Arizen said:
I think the term is being used loosely and not as 'true bugs'.
This. We can quibble about what exactly a bug is at a later date. The colloquial definition of "bug" is an extremely small animal, with more than 4 legs. That, I believe, is what DH meant when he authored this thread. What a "bug" technically is is irrelevant.
 
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As you know, most people disaprove of killing cows to get meat. However, I haven't seen one person care about the killing of insects.

Insects are animals. Cows are also animals. Shouldn't we care about them both?

Lots of people kill insects (see here for proof), and probably some vegetarians. They even kill the harmless ones!

Even though there are lots of insects, they might run out. Why don't we care about insects?
Um, yeah, about no one caring about the killing of insects...

Might I call it murder?

Anyway, it's probably a long-ingrained fear of humans, much like the dark. When our ancestors found the dark was threatening due to lack of sight, I surmise they the same feeling of threat from insects, considering many, although certainly not all, have some kind of defence mechanism that we do not take fondness to. Biting, stinging, noxious spray, any of these could lead to it.

In fact, it may even be a combination, bugs or "creepy crawlies" in the dark? That scares the life out of some people, metaphorically speaking.

Although I'm more for spiders, as many on these forums know, the insects are equally as important to the environment, excluding invasive species.

I simply hate it when my class flies into a berserker fest or a circus of fear just because there are daddy-long-legs, ticks, or any other small insect within the confines of our room. It irks me to no end, and sometimes provokes a slightly violent response in me when someone squishes an arachnid or an insect.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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"As you [the reader] know..."? Why are you leading in a subjective discussion about killing bugs with a statement with no measurable evidence suggesting most people disprove of killing cows?
It's part of the next sentence. I was using cows as an example.

This is state with the assumption that people don't care about killing insects. People do, but insect is such a wide category. The disappearance of pollinating bees is a huge environmental and economical concern. Or do you mean 'pests' which does not include protected and endangered species? Some Tibetan monks will sweep the path in front of them to avoid stepping on bugs etc. Some people kill insects, other people kill some and save others, others kill for convenience. You're asking a closed question to an open audience.
My point is, there are a buch of orginizatons for things like "save the dolphins!" which get in the newspaper. I haven't heard of one organization for bugs.

Insects are not technically animals.
Dead wrong. Bugs are part of the animal kingdom, and everything in the animal kingdom is an animal.

I think the term is being used loosely and not as 'true bugs'. Somehow cows keep entering the conversation. Cows are a weird subject, Gary Larson knows it. Whales vs cow or insects vs cows as a topic must include that cows are a large (too large in my opinion) part of many countries' agricultural industries. Cows are economically seen as a commodity. People have a preference for milk and beef that exceeds the natural balance to the point where rain forests and other natural lands are destroyed and converted into pastures. This changes the ecosystem, water cycle, etc but I'm wandering off topic. Short answer: we raise cows to kill them.
And people protest against that. And I'm pretty sure those same people step on a lot of bugs while protesting.

'Nobody' is a strong word. Some people care. Many species go extinct every day, in that sense it wasn't a stretch.
See my 2nd response on this thread.

I don't know what you're asking. Here's my personal 2 cents:
There's a lot of bugs etc out there, stepping on one doesn't bother me. I don't think it would upset a natural balance.
Look at your previous post.

People don't have the capacity to care about every other living thing. Que sera sera.
They do, just nobody bothers.
 

vVv Rapture

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I think it's because of their significance.

To humans, bugs in general aren't significant if they don't do anything for the human in question. Take a dragonfly. Dragonflies, to most people, are pretty interesting, don't bother them and have an appealing appearance.

Then take something like a fly, which in general can easily annoy a human and thus the human can justify killing it and not be bothered.

In reality, it's just that, to humans, they aren't significant. Most of them aren't appealing in looks. Most of them can be annoying or harmful. And almost all of them reproduce like rabbits on steroids. It's not like they are endangered (I'm sure there are a few, but in general the insect population is extremely well-off), so there's no reason to worry about the effects of killing one.

With that said, that's probably why there are no "save the bugs" organizations because they don't need to be saved. Dolphins, whales, primates, etc. do not reproduce like insects do. Kill a dolphin and there goes a whole pregnancy cycle, plus maybe another offspring if the parent is lucky. Kill an ant and thousands replace it without effort.

Caring about the death of an insect is as significant to humanity as caring about the way a few pebbles are aligned on the side of the road. Some people may care, but the general population of humanity definitely does not and won't think twice about kicking some of those pebbles off to the side or, in this case, squashing a few ants.
 

Dragoon Fighter

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I do not have an opinion proper on this subject however how valuible is a bugs life?
If a human squishes a bug should he/she get life in prison or if he is a cereal killer execute him/her?
 

vVv Rapture

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I do not have an opinion proper on this subject however how valuible is a bugs life?
If a human squishes a bug should he/she get life in prison or if he is a cereal killer execute him/her?
Not at all. Those things apply strictly human to human(s).

Again, it's level of significance.

EDIT: Not if he is an avid fan of cereal and eating it a lot, Shado.
 

Kirbyoshi

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Victim #1: Snap
Victim #2: Crackle
Victim #3: Pop

OH NOES! A CEREAL KILLER!

But seriously, my applause to Rapture. The guy knows what he's talking about.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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I think it's because of their significance.

To humans, bugs in general aren't significant if they don't do anything for the human in question. Take a dragonfly. Dragonflies, to most people, are pretty interesting, don't bother them and have an appealing appearance.

Then take something like a fly, which in general can easily annoy a human and thus the human can justify killing it and not be bothered.

In reality, it's just that, to humans, they aren't significant. Most of them aren't appealing in looks. Most of them can be annoying or harmful. And almost all of them reproduce like rabbits on steroids. It's not like they are endangered (I'm sure there are a few, but in general the insect population is extremely well-off), so there's no reason to worry about the effects of killing one.

With that said, that's probably why there are no "save the bugs" organizations because they don't need to be saved. Dolphins, whales, primates, etc. do not reproduce like insects do. Kill a dolphin and there goes a whole pregnancy cycle, plus maybe another offspring if the parent is lucky. Kill an ant and thousands replace it without effort.

Caring about the death of an insect is as significant to humanity as caring about the way a few pebbles are aligned on the side of the road. Some people may care, but the general population of humanity definitely does not and won't think twice about kicking some of those pebbles off to the side or, in this case, squashing a few ants.
The thing is, like arizen said, several species of bugs are going extinct. It doesn't matter how much they reproduce, as the world is still growing. Nobody is paying attention to those. We used to think we would never run out of oil, and look now. Everything comes to an end. Except for me, I live forever.
 

Rizen

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I was wrong; arthropods are in the animal kingdom. I was thinking kingdom was a smaller category. My bad.
--------------------------------------------------------

This. We can quibble about what exactly a bug is at a later date. The colloquial definition of "bug" is an extremely small animal, with more than 4 legs. That, I believe, is what DH meant when he authored this thread. What a "bug" technically is is irrelevant.
Technically, 'bug' refers to only to a certain type of insect, namely those with straw-like tubes to suck up juice, blood etc.

The other predominant type is 'beetles', which generally refer to those with jaws for chewing.

Now there are species outside of these two categories, such as dragonflies, but the majority of insects are either bugs or beetles.
^Agree. I was suggesting we use the second definition, not the first.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bug
"1.
Also called true bug, hemipteran, hemipteron. a hemipterous insect.
2.
(loosely) any insect or insectlike invertebrate."
--------------------------------------------------------------

My point is, there are a buch of orginizatons for things like "save the dolphins!" which get in the newspaper. I haven't heard of one organization for bugs.
http://flying-insects.suite101.com/article.cfm/saving_the_honeybee
-----------------------------------------------------

See second response on this thread.
You’re taking my statement out of context.
[Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Horse View Post]
But some people do care about those cows. But nobody cares about insects.



I have to admit, maybe it was a stretch mentioning "extinction".
[end quote]


[Quote by Arizen]
'Nobody' is a strong word. Some people care. Many species go extinct every day, in that sense it wasn't a stretch.
[End quote]


For endangered species of insects, going extinct is a accurate statement. It depends on what one is talking about.
[Edit: I missed the previous post while typing this one lol. ^This was addressed.]
---------------------------------------------------------------

Look at your previous post.
What previous post? You’re responding to my fist post.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

People don't have the capacity to care about every other living thing. Que sera sera.
They do, just nobody bothers.
It’s a fair assumption you have a computer or at least are using one. For that to work it’s necessary to have power lines, phone lines and other elements. To establish these requirements, lumber and materials were harvested, land was cleared, power was generated and so on. It’s safe to guess that trillions of bugs and insects were killed so people can use the internet.
There’s the word nobody again. Realistically life lives off other life. It’s a symbiotic relationship involving all life on the planet. People ‘bother’ at great extents to help in there own way. If insects are what you want to help, nothing’s stopping you. Just remember that you live and therefore kill too.
I think it's because of their significance.

To humans, bugs in general aren't significant if they don't do anything for the human in question. Take a dragonfly. Dragonflies, to most people, are pretty interesting, don't bother them and have an appealing appearance.
[...]

Caring about the death of an insect is as significant to humanity as caring about the way a few pebbles are aligned on the side of the road. Some people may care, but the general population of humanity definitely does not and won't think twice about kicking some of those pebbles off to the side or, in this case, squashing a few ants.
^And not being related to or ‘familiar’. It’s a survival element of human nature.
“The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.”
-Joseph Stalin

If I had a pet bug, I would be sad if it died. If billions of bugs died in a forest fire, I don’t know and don’t care.



----------------------------------------
Final note: there are groups dedicated to saving insects.
 

vVv Rapture

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The thing is, like arizen said, several species of bugs are going extinct. It doesn't matter how much they reproduce, as the world is still growing. Nobody is paying attention to those. We used to think we would never run out of oil, and look now. Everything comes to an end. Except for me, I live forever.
As I said, I'm sure there are people that do care. For every thing on this planet, there is at least one person that most likely cares about it.

But, again, you have to look at it from a larger perspective. There may be that one person that cares, but that one person isn't going to stop the whole human race from not caring. And why? Because no matter how special these bugs are to those people that care, if they don't do anything of interest to the rest of the population, they won't mind.

Let me reference my dragonfly example. If someone were to announce that dragonflies were becoming extinct, it would be very likely that a good number of people would care because, to most people, dragonflies aren't something to kill. They interest people, they don't bother people, they aren't extremely gross or unappealing. As far as most people are concerned, they are fine to do what they wish and don't present a problem.

So if they were brought under the endangered list, a lot of people would be worried by this or be a bit more cautious around them, even though humans rarely kill dragonflies purposely anyways.

Then, let's say mosquitoes were put under the endangered list. That would almost be a godsend to people. Mosquitoes are only annoyances to most of the population, so seeing them gone is nothing but beneficial. No more annoying bug bites, not having to worry about contracting diseases from them, etc.

My point is, humanity cares about things for odd reasons. If something appeals to humans in even one slight way, humans tend to care more. Do cats really do anything for humans? Not at all. But they are visually appealing and, now that they are domesticated (as they obviously were not at one point), can be great companions. But other than that, they don't really do much for us. Just for those reasons, we like them, so we prefer not to disregard them.

Evidently, most humans do not care for most bugs because if they do something, it's usually not something the human likes, whether it be being visually unattractive, harmful, annoying, noisy, etc. None of those traits appeal to the majority of humanity, so the majority of humanity does not care.

Also, continuing this, Arizen said:

"If I had a pet bug, I would be sad if it died. If billions of bugs died in a forest fire, I don’t know and don’t care. "

Very true. I would agree.

But, what if you watched the news and found that a thousand kittens died in that same forest fire? That would hit a nerve. Those aren't your kittens. They do nothing for you. But I would bet a lot of people, maybe even you, would have not wanted that to happen.

As humans, we give significance to whatever we want. We just never gave significance to bugs in general, save for a few, and even then that varies from person to person. I personally love bumblebees and enjoy their presence in my parents' garden in my front yard. Other people may hate them and try to kill them. Those are just those exceptions that happen in every topic.

But the point is, in general, bugs are not significant to humans, so you won't find that same care for them that we give to others. Not even cows.
 

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I simply try to ignore most insects and arachnids and leave them to their business. I will usually only kill one if they are venemous or a threat somehow, which usually is not the case anyway. (Although I seem to possess an irrational urge to kill roaches). IMO killing harmful insects and arachnids quickly is not so terrible, as long as you don't make them suffer. Burning ants with a magnifying glass, for example, is just wrong.

One thing you have to consider is what if you find dozens of sugar ants (for example) crawling on your kitchen counter, near an area where someone supposedly spilled something or left food crums? In this particular case, it's impossible to pick them up and carry them outside. So are you going to ignore them or kill them?
 

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I'm sorry, but this sentence made me lol.

It's "serial" not "cereal".
I was like, What? Are we killing Frosted Flakes? Ohmagawd!

OT: ... ... . Yeah. I guess if you're a Buddhist or something then you'd "value all life" but most people aren't Buddhist, and don't think twice about killing a bothersome flea. I used to save the carpenter ants from death whenever I found them in the house. "Compassion" ... being a child, whatever you wanna call it. I generally try not to kill bugs. I envision one day the bugs getting mad at humans and swarming us. But sometimes a bug just needs killing.

 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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I was like, What? Are we killing Frosted Flakes? Ohmagawd!

OT: ... ... . Yeah. I guess if you're a Buddhist or something then you'd "value all life" but most people aren't Buddhist, and don't think twice about killing a bothersome flea. I used to save the carpenter ants from death whenever I found them in the house. "Compassion" ... being a child, whatever you wanna call it. I generally try not to kill bugs. I envision one day the bugs getting mad at humans and swarming us. But sometimes a bug just needs killing.
If it's disturbing, just ignore it. If I killed everything I found disturbing, I would be in jail for murder.

And that pics really disturbing... *ignores*
 

Snowmanthatknows

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I'm pretty sure, there are way too many insects in the world and killing them would be alright, I don't see them becoming extinct anytime soon.

Also, they aren't mammals, so our instincts don't really feel guilt when we kill them.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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I'm pretty sure, there are way too many insects in the world and killing them would be alright, I don't see them becoming extinct anytime soon.
Not anytime Soon, yes, but they probably will go extinct if we keep this up.

Also, they aren't mammals, so our instincts don't really feel guilt when we kill them.
So you're saying that nobody cares when a turtle dies. Where would you get an idea like that?
 

Rizen

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What happened to the scary caterpillar picture? I kind of liked it.
This debate's too subjective for my taste.
So...
...um...
...good luck, I guess.
 

Snowmanthatknows

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Not anytime Soon, yes, but they probably will go extinct if we keep this up.



So you're saying that nobody cares when a turtle dies. Where would you get an idea like that?

Just a theory, I do feel bad when a turtle dies. I love them till death and I find insects fascinating as well. But I don't care for them as much as another mammal.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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Just a theory, I do feel bad when a turtle dies. I love them till death and I find insects fascinating as well. But I don't care for them as much as another mammal.
My point is, turtles are not mammals (they're reptiles). According to your logic, you wouldn't feel anything when the turtle dies.
 

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Being a mammal has nothing to do with it. Turtles, trout, eagles, etc., all have plenty of people who think they are worth saving. When a moth dies, however...good riddance. The only "bug" people seem to care about is the honey bee, and that probably stems from nothing more than the fact that if they go extinct, pollination will decrease dramatically. And we get tasty honey from them, so they are useful to us. Either way, wanting to save honeybees has less to do with not killing one of God's creatures, and more to do with the effect losing honeybees would have.
 

vVv Rapture

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Being a mammal has nothing to do with it. Turtles, trout, eagles, etc., all have plenty of people who think they are worth saving. When a moth dies, however...good riddance. The only "bug" people seem to care about is the honey bee, and that probably stems from nothing more than the fact that if they go extinct, pollination will decrease dramatically. And we get tasty honey from them, so they are useful to us. Either way, wanting to save honeybees has less to do with not killing one of God's creatures, and more to do with the effect losing honeybees would have.
This.

As I said earlier, humans give significance to things for odd reasons. We like honey, so we like bees. Namely, most of us probably don't like bees that can sting us for the fact that they can sting us, but bumblebees are perfectly fine. They contribute to the honey making process and don't harm us.

As long as there is something that appeals to us in whatever it is, humans will care for it. Turtles do literally nothing for humanity except in appearance. So we gave them significance. Same with most marine animals. We even give more significance to fish than bugs, even though we intentionally kill them anyways.

If bugs, in general, did something for most of humanity in some evident way, they'd probably have enough significance to warrant not being in the position they are in currently.
 

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Rapture, people eat fish. That's the only reason I can think of that anyone has ever intentionally killed one.
 

vVv Rapture

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Rapture, people eat fish. That's the only reason I can think of that anyone has ever intentionally killed one.
That's what I'm saying. We eat them, we give them significance. Many are appealing in looks. We give them significance.

My point is that we even give fish more significance than bugs and we still intentionally kill them anyways. But their significance is because of that.
 

1048576

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The more intelligent creatures get more freedoms.

Plants < Bugs < Fish < Cows < Me < Cute fluffy wuffy scruffles who is purring right now and totally eating my food.

I think that works because I've never heard of any culture that will eat a higher intelligence creature, but not a lower intelligence one, for moral reasons, but I might just be ignorant.

The problem that divides us on the issue is how to measure it, and where to draw the line.
 

vVv Rapture

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The more intelligent creatures get more freedoms.

Plants < Bugs < Fish < Cows < Me < Cute fluffy wuffy scruffles who is purring right now and totally eating my food.

I think that works because I've never heard of any culture that will eat a higher intelligence creature, but not a lower intelligence one, for moral reasons, but I might just be ignorant.

The problem that divides us on the issue is how to measure it, and where to draw the line.
You clearly have never had a garden before. Even plants have more significance than bugs. Appealing appearance, source of food, source of shade, source of building material, etc.

On your second comment, you do know that people eat things like squid, octopus and even domesticated animals, right?
 

Kirbyoshi

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Oh ok. That makes slightly more sense.

Btw Rapture, what was up with your last sentence in post 35?
 

vVv Rapture

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The second sentence of that post was replying to that of 1048576's post.

He said, "I think that works because I've never heard of any culture that will eat a higher intelligence creature, but not a lower intelligence one, for moral reasons, but I might just be ignorant."

My response was that there are people that do that, as people do eat things like squid, octopus, domesticated animal, etc, which are, in some ways, "intelligent." Domesticated animals is probably a stretch, but the other two seem to be. Another example would be pigs. Intelligent animals, eaten by humans.
 

1048576

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Yeah, but those people that eat dogs also eat everything else. Those last two should prolly be switched. It was a joke... People are smarter than dogs...

And gardeners do tend to eat the plants that can be eaten, or at least they have no moral objections. Obviously you wouldn't eat someone else's plant, because stealing is bad, but that has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
 
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