Just picked up this Character,

[EarthBound18]

I was interested when She got revealed but didn't play her because of the stigma she had. Just wondering how do you do the ladder air combo post patch? Someone did it to me a few days ago (I probably had bad di) Also what should I be doing in neutral? I did read the bayo-guide posted here and just wanted a few extra tips.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

I was interested when She got revealed but didn't play her because of the stigma she had. Just wondering how do you do the ladder air combo post patch? Someone did it to me a few days ago (I probably had bad di) Also what should I be doing in neutral? I did read the bayo-guide posted here and just wanted a few extra tips.

You do it the exact same way you'd do it pre patch. Go into training mode and practice timing your special moves together.
If you are doing it correctly but the opponent keep escaping, it could be because the opponent used SDI which is pretty much a combo breaker on every move. At that point it is almost impossible to combo reliably with her specials.

Bayonetta's neutral is lacking, especially after the dive kick nerf. Most of her grounded move are slow, so use Dtilt and Utilt since they can start a combo. If you are against a large target who lacks a decnt projectile you can just spam BC for a bit of damage. But outside of that it is more or less the same strategy as Jigglypuff, bait n punish by using her low lag aerials.
Witch Time is a great move but you should only use it at high % since it stale quite hard and Bayonetta's kill moves are quite underwhelming overall without it. (FSmash is both weaker and slower than Mario's)

Overall, Bayonetta is massively different from 1.1.5 Bayonetta, don't expect much combo if you are against a competent opponent. Bayonetta is now much more bait and punish in the style of Jigglypuff. If you are playing against an opponent who aren't very good at SDI, her specials can be difficult for them to handle.

 

[CreamyFatone]

I was interested when She got revealed but didn't play her because of the stigma she had. Just wondering how do you do the ladder air combo post patch? Someone did it to me a few days ago (I probably had bad di) Also what should I be doing in neutral? I did read the bayo-guide posted here and just wanted a few extra tips.

Ignore the sourpuss above me. He has a zero adaptation mindset.

There is essentially no "ladder combo" with Bayo anymore. Any kind of death combo you'll get with her will be the standard Wt -> abk -> abk -> Wt -> uair or Wt -> Wt -> abk -> abk -> uair, but with a few consecutive DI reads. You will actually have to pay attention to your opponent's DI mixups and consider evacuating the combo if you think you won't guess correctly. However, in the early game what you can do is do a few combos with one WT or one abk just to see how they react, and you can go for extended combos based on how you think they will DI. One interesting thing about the patch is that if the opponent sDIs out sideways of WT, they'll sometimes fall out in a fashion similar to ZSS's rage Up-B, meaning you can trick them into killing themselves off the top in certain situations.

What you may be interested in learning now are the non-special combos with Bayo which involve fair -> FFuair -> fair or soft bair -> FFuair -> soft bair and the ways in which these moves can frame trap, and just in general learn the different options with which you can follow up.

Neutral in this game is very dependent on each character, but with Bayo what you usually want to do is pressure with dtilt bullet arts and neutral-b when you have an opportunity and then pay attention to how they approach you and exploit that. Remember, you can cancel neutral-b with shield to psyche out the opponent. You can SH fair to poke the air above them if you think they'll jump, which leads into your combos. You'll want to do SHbair when they're in kill percent to pressure shield. Dtilt is still pretty fast despite the range nerf for when you're playing footsies. Ftilt can cross up shield. WT is frame 4, and will simply beat out other moves because of how fast it is, making it a fantastic Oos option. Her side-b is for catching landings, its not a good idea to just throw it out, but if you do end up hitting their shield consider mixing up by not doing the second kick and doing WT or dodging or something.

At the end of the day, this character's meta is still growing. The Bayo discord has tons of people experimenting and doing new things, and I think its a bit more lively than the board so you can go there for tips too.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Ignore the sourpuss above me. He has a zero adaptation mindset.

D:
Why? I didn't said don't use Bayonetta or anything!

There is essentially no "ladder combo" with Bayo anymore. Any kind of death combo you'll get with her will be the standard Wt -> abk -> abk -> Wt -> uair or Wt -> Wt -> abk -> abk -> uair, but with a few consecutive DI reads. You will actually have to pay attention to your opponent's DI mixups and consider evacuating the combo if you think you won't guess correctly. However, in the early game what you can do is do a few combos with one WT or one abk just to see how they react, and you can go for extended combos based on how you think they will DI. One interesting thing about the patch is that if the opponent sDIs out sideways of WT, they'll sometimes fall out in a fashion similar to ZSS's rage Up-B, meaning you can trick them into killing thems

Most of the ladder combo are still here, problem is it is easily SDIed. As I said, if the opponent can't SDI very well her specials will be hard for them to handle.
Tricking people into killing themselves upwards is a pretty rare thing (even though it does happen slightly more often after the patch), it isn't really that reliable and probably works on someone only once.

 

[Zalezus]

While the elevator combos can be SDI'd, do not assume that they will not work because there's an escape option. At highish percent, depending on the character you are comboing this combo is still hard to get out of and WTw being frame 4 is hard to react to and will kill depending on how high up you go. Cut your combo short if Uair will land and kill.

ABK > ABK can be true

WTw > ABK (timing pending) is true if they don't wiggle out of the Twist

ABK > WTw (timing/DI pending) is true if your spacing is right

ABK > Uair or Bair (occasionally Nair) can be true

WTw > Fair combo can link and sometimes be true

The pattern here is that DI has been and always will be really important, so being able to read DI is an utmost requirement. That said if your instincts are sharp you can ad lib your combo so it will matter less how your opponent decided to escape.

 

[Flamegeyser]

There's been a sharp change from pre to post patch when it comes to combos. Pre-patch, combos were all about early stocks, and making the opponent stay safe. Post patch, combos are now more about damage racking so that all it takes is one confirm to kill. A full 0-death prepatch did about 50% damage, depending on how it was done, which is great, but thanks to the patch, even if the opponent can't SDI, sometimes they'll just get launched too far from the ABK for a followup. Still, always test the waters and see if they can escape our death combos, because we otherwise suck at taking stocks. Anyways, new combos can do in the realm of 60%->80%, no joke (although they drop off slightly after mid%s thanks to KBG). Being able to do these causes our damage potential to skyrocket. Although we have trouble killing before 150%, we can still get there relatively fast with combos such as: dtilt->bair->uair->bair->uair->bair->ABK->ABK->uair,
fair1->uair->fair1->uair->nair->ABK->ABK->uair,
HSK->utilt->uair->dj bair->ABK->ABK->uair,
and really whatever you can put your mind to.
Other than that, the bait and punish playstyle remains mostly the same. Dtilt and utilt are your friends for starting combos, being your fastest grounded moves after WTw, while Heel Slide is your go-to ranged punish and short hop catcher. SHFF bair and nair are safe on shield, and effective moves overall, bair being our primary killing option. We get a lot off of tomahawks, even though our grab game sucks, thanks to the fact that bair pressure mixed with putting the opponent in an edgeguarding position is fairly deadly.

That's another thing, our edgeguarding is probably the best in the game, maybe surpassed by Villager if at all. We've got 2 lingering hitboxes (BA nair and uair), a powerful trump killer (bair), a high-recovery catcher (dsmash), a stall-then-fall spike that kills at practically 0% (dair), and the recovery to go essentially as deep as we want to achieve these ends. Other than perhaps WTi kills, this is our fastest killing option, so lab gimping and lab it well.

Bayo's actually super versatile, and I thought after the nerf that she would lose viability, but she's still top 15 IMO, and works exactly proportionally to the amount of time you put into making her not suck.

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

There's been a sharp change from pre to post patch when it comes to combos. Pre-patch, combos were all about early stocks, and making the opponent stay safe. Post patch, combos are now more about damage racking so that all it takes is one confirm to kill. A full 0-death prepatch did about 50% damage, depending on how it was done, which is great, but thanks to the patch, even if the opponent can't SDI, sometimes they'll just get launched too far from the ABK for a followup. Still, always test the waters and see if they can escape our death combos, because we otherwise suck at taking stocks. Anyways, new combos can do in the realm of 60%->80%, no joke (although they drop off slightly after mid%s thanks to KBG). Being able to do these causes our damage potential to skyrocket. Although we have trouble killing before 150%, we can still get there relatively fast with combos such as: dtilt->bair->uair->bair->uair->bair->ABK->ABK->uair,
fair1->uair->fair1->uair->nair->ABK->ABK->uair,
HSK->utilt->uair->dj bair->ABK->ABK->uair,
and really whatever you can put your mind to.
Other than that, the bait and punish playstyle remains mostly the same. Dtilt and utilt are your friends for starting combos, being your fastest grounded moves after WTw, while Heel Slide is your go-to ranged punish and short hop catcher. SHFF bair and nair are safe on shield, and effective moves overall, bair being our primary killing option. We get a lot off of tomahawks, even though our grab game sucks, thanks to the fact that bair pressure mixed with putting the opponent in an edgeguarding position is fairly deadly.

That's another thing, our edgeguarding is probably the best in the game, maybe surpassed by Villager if at all. We've got 2 lingering hitboxes (BA nair and uair), a powerful trump killer (bair), a high-recovery catcher (dsmash), a stall-then-fall spike that kills at practically 0% (dair), and the recovery to go essentially as deep as we want to achieve these ends. Other than perhaps WTi kills, this is our fastest killing option, so lab gimping and lab it well.

Bayo's actually super versatile, and I thought after the nerf that she would lose viability, but she's still top 15 IMO, and works exactly proportionally to the amount of time you put into making her not suck.

This is a great way to sum up Bayonetta. Large combos can set the opponent off-guard, especially at the beginning of a match. Afterwards, I generally go for combos that do 20% - 40%, as just a few of those are enough to put the opponent into death range. Combos like that are safer than going all-out in a large combo. However, larger combos do much more damage, which is always good. It's a matter of risk vs. reward: small combos are low-risk, low-reward, whereas large combos are high-risk, high-reward. Of course, you should always go for larger combos if you land a WTime, since the opponent is unable to do anything.

In terms of the ladder combos, if you mean the combos that start at the ground and kill off the top at low percents, they are technically still there, but not nearly as reliable or as useful as before. All combos that used dABK are now rendered useless, and there were quite a lot of ladder combos that used dABK. The ones that don't use dABK are usable, but they are susceptible to SDI.

What you may be interested in learning now are the non-special combos with Bayo which involve fair -> FFuair -> fair or soft bair -> FFuair -> soft bair and the ways in which these moves can frame trap, and just in general learn the different options with which you can follow up.

These combos, while taking some practice to pull off, are useful because they can't be SDI'd out of. They aren't very long, but are quite safe. It's good to do lots of practice to find out which combos work the best for you.

Bayonetta is such a unique character to play, and I'm glad people aren't being scared off by her pre-patch negativity and post-patch nerfs. Thanks for trying her out!