Just getting into melee

[Radical Dreamer]

I originally posted this in another thread but was told I should make it its own topic.

I've only been playing the game for about three months...maybe four, in the room next door to me in my dormitory, and I bought the game for myself about a month ago.

The group I play with is pretty much all scrubs. Some of them think they're great but only one of them (besides me) has any advanced techs whatsoever, and he's actually one of the more modest ones. He actually doesn't wavedash even though he knows how (a Ganondorf main anyway), but he L cancels consistently. I can wavedash and shffl consistently in practice but not so much in an actual game, and most of these guys have been playing longer than me. One of them is really terrible and mostly just picks crappy characters (Bowser, G&W) and spams B moves (IT'SSSS BAAAAAAACON!!).

I try to read up on gameplay mechanics and learn the advanced techs, while most of them don't have the patience for it. This is especially so because they're sort of jock guys who get really into the game (to the point where they're playing it HOURS every day), but are too ashamed to admit that they might be at all nerdy for it. Even though I read up on advanced techniques I don't appear to be all that much better than most of them, probably because I'm really not. It also doesn't help that they mostly prefer to play free for all, although occasionally I can get a 1v1 in.

There's this one guy who has no interest in learning advanced tech but we usually end up going even. Well, actually that may not be totally accurate. He basically only plays two characters: Fox and CF. Basically, if he chooses the former, he wins, and if he chooses the latter, I win. This is pretty consistent. I two-stocked his Falcon with Jigglypuff and no rest combos, and made him ***** with Samus' missiles. I usually play Marth against his Fox, which usually means I end up getting lasered and eventually up smashed for the KO at 80 percent. There's another guy i played who I would play Marth against his Sheik. Only did this match twice, and lost both times, but the second time he was at 85% on his last stock.

Whenever I play fighting games I usually have trouble sticking to just one or two characters. In Mortal Kombat Armageddon, a guilty pleasure of mine, I probably play like 50 of the 62 characters pretty effectively. In Smash I switch around a lot, but I mostly play Marth, Jigglypuff, Samus, Link, and Sheik. If I had to pick, I would probably go with Marth as a main and Jigglypuff as a secondary. (I would marry the puffball.)

Anyway I'm really looking to improve my game, and ultimately I don't think playing free for alls with mostly really scrubby players will help me all that much. In about a week I actually won't be living with these people, and I don't even like them that much. I kind of wish this game had online... Other than that, I'm in Berkeley for most of the year and San Diego during the summer, hoping to find smashers in both areas (San Francisco/Daly City, El Cerrito and Oakland would probably suffice). I checked the GSC but there didn't seem to be too many. I actually intend to go to Evo West, but I don't really expect to do well or anything.

PS. I generally C-stick my aerials and am generally having trouble shffl'ing nairs.

 

[Aiko]

There is actually an introduction forum for this sorta thing

If youre looking for smashers, try going to the regional forums. Im sure you'll find at least 1 player whos willing to meet you Ideally, if your looking to get good, then you'll need to find a group of friends you can play on a regular basis. If not, try and get friends who play but want to get better.

As for your matchups against friends, the reason your only matching up evenly is because although advanced techniques allow you a distinct edge on the technical side of the game, it is only making up for the lack of your basic principles. This is only because you've played the game for a short time, whereas your friends who have played scrubbily for the last few years, they've at least developed some sort of tactical knowledge over the time. Don't worry about it, you'll learn the more you play. I suppose since you are early in your game development, its not too bad to play against computers but at some point you'll need to learn to play properly against human players and stay away from comps (except lvl1s).

To improve, I highly reccomend watching as many videos as you can, combo and matches. Study your main character guides, watch pros who play your characters, try and copy combos you see. Also keep working on your tech skill. Shffl'd aerials including nair are VERY basic to advanced play, but it is very well within your reach. You have a good attitude towards smash

edit: I would also reccomend sticking to 1 or 2 characters until you feel like you can't learn any more with them before switching to other characters. When you change characters it allows you to work out their strengths, weaknesses and improve your mindgames but this is only possible if you have a good way to compare them (ie your 1 or 2 mains)

 

[pdk]

there's not much harm in being all over the place with characters, you're just playing with your crew anyway so you already have a broad idea what to do against them anyway

and playing 50 (or any number) characters in mk well ain't saying much at all ; )

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Yeah in MKA with most characters you're pretty much set so long as you know a low poke, a mid, a throw and a special move.

Anyway I checked out the Meet and Greet forum but I don't like it too much. It doesn't seem like I would get too much attention unless I title my thread "GIRL HERE."

Believe me, I've already wasted plenty of hours of my life watching all the videos on youtube. I already have my favorite pro smashers (King mainly), and I've watched Wak's tutorial videos. It's a lot to digest so at this point I'm mostly focusing on shffl'ing and wavedashing. I'd actually like to try playing competitively, and I figure that for that I would need to be able to shffl at the very minimum. I know it's pretty presumptuous to say "I just bought the game and I wanna play at a high level," but, well, I can pretty much only hope you won't laugh at me too hard. I'm not expecting to do too well at Evo West anyway, as I know quite a few of the best smashers are in Cali and will most likely be attending. I'm kind of concerned about the fact that Brawl is almost just around the corner though. Hopefully anything I learn now will carry over.

As for the scrubby people I play with now, it's only four days until I move out of the dorms and I don't expect to see them too much next year. I'll be living in a cooperative, student run house next year of about a 150 people, so with any luck I'll be able to find at least one person worth playing in it. It's kind of funny how I improved pretty dramatically after I actually bought the game for myself and starting giving all of them except one a run for their money. I tend to test the crap out of multiplayer games once I get them for myself, spending more time in training modes than anything else. Unfortunately the Melee training mode doesn't allow the C-stick so I use a level 1 computer as a substitute. The guy who actually has some advanced tech two-stocked my Marth with Ganondorf, although he had high % on that second to last stock. It was probably better than either of us expected, although he's the type of person who would hold back against someone he knows he's better than, even though he said he wouldn't because I was using Marth. Still, he's probably the only one in this group of people who's better than a low level player, but he doesn't seem interested in playing the game competitively.

Besides Evo West the San Jose State Biweeklies seems like the closest tournament venue for me (during the school year at least), but that's still like 50 miles away from school and somewhat inconvenient, unless there's a feasible BART route I'm missing.

A few questions...

What's the best way to make an approach against a projectile character when playing as a non-projectile character?

I've been able to shffl fairs with Marth consistently in practice...so long as I don't actually hit someone. I've noticed that the timing is different for whiffed shffls and shffls that actually connect. How do you compensate to reliably L-cancel without knowing whether the attack will hit? (I practice pretty much all of my tech skill with Marth.)

I was also going to ask for frame data but I found that myself. In any case, how do people actually find out the frame data in the first place?

 

[1048576]

The best way to make an approach against a projectile character with Marth is either to wavedash out of sheild, use the platforms to go over and under projectiles, or approach from the air and space that really long sword so you don't get shield-grabbed. Anyway, I probably shouldn't be answering this (looks at avatar) seeing as how I'm pretty much set to handle projectiles.

People collect frame data by slowing the game down to one frame per second with an action replay, which (sorry if I'm insulting your intelligence) is like a gameshark for the Gamecube.

For the l-cancel timing, practice. Eventually your instincts will tell you if the opponent is going to take the hit before your attack actually comes out.

 

[Aiko]

Well if you go to the tournament a few times and get to know as many people as you can, you're bound to find someone whos at least remotely close to you. As i mentioned before, try the regional forums too.

As for projectiles, full jumping isn't too bad. Rolling works to an extent too, but generally you shouldn't have too many problems against projectiling characters unless they're falco, doc or samus on a platform level. Its just a matter of learning what projectiles are good on where.

Falcos lasers are best on wide levels with few platforms, but even a decent amount of space permits him to shoot so try and stay in his blind spot (where his attacks dont connect but if he fires a laser you can attack back) which coincidentially is about marths tipper range.

Docs pills are best on small levels with some platforms. Pills only have a limited amount of reach so you can either stay away or again go for his blind spot which is even more obvious because doc can't cancel the lag on his pills. Beware of platforms though as pills bounce more than you think.

Samus's missiles are best utilised on platform levels where she can fire one after another quickly by platform missile-cancelling. But on less platform heavy or flat levels, just stay close and it shouldn't be too bad. Shes quite floaty so a tipper around 100% should do it. A good samus can recover from anywhere so you'll need to edgeguard effectively.

hope that helps