JC Grab vs Pivot Grab

[FE_Hector]

Alright, so I've heard a good amount about both of those, but I was wondering what the true advantage of a Pivot Grab is over a JC Grab if done properly. Both end up with you doing a normal grab and both interrupt your dash dance, so I was wondering what the big deal was.

 

[Stride]

Pivot grab stops you in place, while jump cancel grab keeps you sliding during jumpsquat.

Also, if you want to grab behind you from a dash then pivot grab is at least 1 frame faster than jump cancel grab; you grab on frame after the pivot, as opposed to entering jumpsquat on frame after the pivot and then grabbing on the frame after that (at minimum).

Watch a high level Marth fishing for grabs in neutral, and look for the distinction between pivot grab and jump cancel grab.

You can pseudo-option select between pivot grab and jump cancel grab by inputting a jump on the same frame that you turn, then inputting the grab on the frame after. This way, if you execute the grab too late then you'll get a jump cancel grab (which is better the dash grab you'd otherwise get), but if you execute the grab with the correct timing then you'll get a perfect pivot grab. It makes you potential technical flub less costly with no downside.

 

[FE_Hector]

Alright, I'll take a look at it. It shouldn't be too big of a problem. My pivots are getting pretty darn accurate, I'm probably gonna speed up my dash dance -> pivot soon. Thanks!

 

[DeadPigeon]

You also need to pivot grab to chain grab spacies. Not sure if jc grab is fast enough.

 

[Stride]

You also need to pivot grab to chain grab spacies. Not sure if jc grab is fast enough.

You don't always need to pivot grab. Also, from a stand jump cancel grab is faster than a pivot grab since you have to dash forwards for a few frames before you can turn.

PAL Fox can escape from a standing grab, turn grab, or dash to jump cancel grab from 16% if he doesn't DI (at low percentages it's from being out of range of the grab, at high percentages it from being able to shine you), but cannot escape from a pivot grab (pivot grab also covers slight DI). For hard DI to the sides or at <16%, standing grab/buffer tilt turn grab/buffer walk grab/dash to jump cancel grab (as appropriate) will work. NTSC Fox and Falco work similarly, just with higher percentages.

 

[DeadPigeon]

You don't always need to pivot grab. Also, from a stand jump cancel grab is faster than a pivot grab since you have to dash forwards for a few frames before you can turn.

PAL Fox can shine out of a standing grab or a dash to jump cancel grab from 16% if he doesn't DI, but cannot escape from a pivot grab (pivot grab also covers slight DI behind). For hard DI to the sides or at <16%, standing grab/buffer tilt turn grab/dash to jump cancel grab (as appropriate) will work. NTSC Fox and Falco work similarly, just with higher percentages.

Yea, sorry for being unclear. I was saying that in the cases where standing grab will miss and you need to pivot grab, I'm not sure if jc grabbing (instead of pivot) will be fast enough. Of course you don't need to pivot grab every time, only at certain percents and DI.

 

[FE_Hector]

Alright. Thanks a ton for clearing that up.