Jab canceling doesn't exist

[TheCatPhysician]

the whole "jab canceling" thing is wrong. people think that either ike's first or second jab can be canceled into a shield which can be further canceled into another move.

sure you can cancel the very very last bit of a jab with shield, but it's just the same way you can with any move. so to use a shield before using your next move would only slow you down.

also some people think that jab cancel into downsmash is a combo. even without the shield slowing you down it's not a combo. you can get out of that really easy.

basically if you've landed a jab, the only guaranteed combo you can do is finish the jab sequence.

there might be one small exception, if you want to get technical: after the second jab, if you tap down on the control stick just before you would do the third jab it will start the sequence over (like in Melee). so theoretically you could go jab1>jab2>jab1>2>3, but I'm pretty sure that could be DI'd out of anyway.

 

[Mike Hawk]

what i do now is jab jab tilt. its as fast as finishing the AAA but with more power.

 

[Zareidriel]

I use the jab jab jab. It does damage and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Parthenon]

Don't you mean jab jab upb? Upb? Upb?

 

[RAAR]

This is the flashiest thing i did with falco in meele id shffl jab-jab then down tilt and get and upward KO. So you can actually do any move outof a double jab but i guess taping R and giving it a name makes it an advanced technique.

 

[-Aether]

you can hit shield quickly, not make the shield actually appear, and combo into other moves. Granted it's not nearly as fast as a triple A combo, but it works. I've done it with a ton of characters. You can see the ending lag on the jabs get canceled.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This thread is wrong.

All jab cancelling does it get rid of the ending lag of the jab.

So at most your eliminating maybe 5 or 6 frames. Maybe a bit more. But's enough to follw up with another move that has quick start-up time, since your opponent is still in hitstun from the jab.

It's not like you jab and then hit the shield button, and they immiediately go back to their standing position.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

no, it's not enough time to follow up with another move. and yeah, you can cancel the VERY last bit of it like I said, but it's nothing special, and it's not specific to the shield. actually the place I learned about "jab canceling" is from your thread in Marth discussion about how ike can go jab>jab>shield>downsmash and that's a combo. not only does shielding hinder you because the downsmash could have come out as early as the shield, but that is still too slow to combo.

and to whoever said jabs to forward tilt, that's too slow as well

 

[Emblem Lord]

All I know is that alot of people who have the game are confirming this.

So I'm gonna go with it and say Ike can jab cancel and you are just doing something wrong.

 

[Mike Hawk]

trying it out right now, and im timing it!

 

[TheCatPhysician]

are there any videos up of it?

and im pretty sure i've explore this fully. i slowed it down in training mode to look at when the shield comes out (you can buffer it) over and over and it's the same point at which you can cancel into any other move. and you just have to try the combos against a comp to see that they can be really easily escaped.

 

[Mike Hawk]

at 1/4th speed the speed difference between a Ftilt or your third jab is about 1 second thats 15 frames and im not shield canceling the jabs im letting Ikes foot reset so i can do a Ftilt.

if you ask me, for the boost in power this is good to mix in now and then.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

at 1/4th speed the speed difference between a Ftilt or your third jab is about 1 second thats 15 frames and im not shield canceling the jabs im letting Ikes foot reset so i can do a Ftilt.

if you ask me, for the boost in power this is good to mix in now and then.

first of all, you can't cancel into shield any faster than you can cancel into a jab. put it in 1/4th speed and buffer a shield after the second jab and you'll see the shield comes up right at the end, just as he's putting his foot back down. this part of the animation is just where any move can be done out of it.

also for the ftilt, just try the combo against a computer a few times. most of the time they DI into you but a few times you should see them easily just jump out of the whole thing.


EDIT: I'm pretty sure the main reason people think the jab cancels into the shield and nothing else is because the shield can be buffered, unlike a different attack (i.e. downsmash or a tilt). so anytime after the jab you can just mash the shield button and the shield will eventually come out. as opposed to going directly into another attack, where pressing it early will obviously just make you go into the third jab. but yeah, it can cancel at the same point, it just requires timing. try it out

 

[Mike Hawk]

first of all, you can't cancel into shield any faster than you can cancel into a jab. put it in 1/4th speed and buffer a shield after the second jab and you'll see the shield comes up right at the end, just as he's putting his foot back down. this part of the animation is just where any move can be done out of it.

i did all that, trust me i know how to research, heck did you even read my post?

also for the ftilt, just try the combo against a computer a few times. most of the time they DI into you but a few times you should see them easily just jump out of the whole thing.

if you ask me, for the boost in power this is good to mix in now and then.

i bolded my points for you, also i was never defending shield cancelled grabs. heck i just helped you prove your thread.

edit: i was making this post while you were editing.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

i did all that, trust me i know how to research, heck did you even read my post?

i guess i misunderstood "and im not shield canceling the jabs im letting Ikes foot reset so i can do a Ftilt." as if you were saying "i don't even have to shield cancel (as if that would make it faster)"

and yeah, if you know your opponent won't be trying to escape the combo for some reason, then by all means give him a good whack with the ftilt. i'm just saying it is escapable

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well, my friends are coming over with Brawl today so, I'll test it myself.

Honestly alot of good players have been confirming it on the hub and other players as well.

Apparently when done correctly you won't even see the shield pop up.

Plus DMbrandon did say it was a legit technique when he talked about new techniques in Brawl.

So to be honest...I don't know what to think LOL.

I'll just test it myself.

 

[Emblem Lord]

****ing Smashboards.

 

[SCOTU]

If the shield is comming out, you're performing the alleged technique incorrectly. @Emblem Lord: do we know that the game runs at 60fps constant frame rate?

 

[Emblem Lord]

60fps.

Yeah, isn't that standard for all types of fighting games now though?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

If the shield is comming out, you're performing the alleged technique incorrectly. @Emblem Lord: do we know that the game runs at 60fps constant frame rate?

if you're not pressing the shield button late enough for the shield to come out (or not holding it that long) then pressing the button did absolutely nothing. you don't gain any canceled lag; there is just a tiny bit of lag that can be canceled to begin with. i have tested this thoroughly and doing another move after the jabs ASAP is still too slow to combo without being jumped or DI'd out of. it may look like it comes out only a little bit after the third jab would have come out, but the fact that the third jab is a very quick overhead slice makes it inescapable.

btw i'd love to be proven wrong so feel free to post videos