I've been tasked for making an awesome Villager guide; what to include?

[AceStarThe3rd]

Alright, so I know there are some Villager guides out there, but they are arguably lackluster.
What do you guys want to see in this guide? What do you want to see emphasized? What don't you want too much attention on?

 

[Antonykun]

emphasis on Villager's traps and anti-zoning: two thing very much ignored by a good portion of her player base

 

[arncakes]

Applications for each of his tilts, most of the guides I've seen say the %s and such about them, but never the applications (mainly f-tilt)

 

[AnchorTea]

Leave stuff like this to the Villager mains Ace.

 

[Antonykun]

Leave stuff like this to the Villager mains Ace.

Implying he doesn't main villager

 

[AnchorTea]

Implying he doesn't main villager

I'll stop talking.

 

[Mr.Sile]

Hi @ AceStarThe3rd ! Big Fan here! I'm not the best villager but I'll try to contribute a little bit.

Try to define the type of character Villager is and how/in which situations he's most effective, i.e. Villager works best by adapting and putting pressure in the mid range, instead of an overly defensive play and camping excessively. Strenghts, weaknesses (including worst matchups), OoS options, kill moves, quick, low endlag moves. B-reverse pocket used as a tool to recover safely from the air. Pretty much anything that shows players how Villager is best played.

Frame data is fine but personally, frame data is meaningless for me without a visual representation. (Saying ''Nair comes out at frame X and dair comes out at frame Y'' just will cause players to be confused and not understand anything. Visual + Informative > Logistic + Informative).

You should include AT's like the Quick Tree, and B-reverse axe (there is a thread in this board that has all the known AT's). Hitbox data, Nair lingers a lot, etc. Include a Basic moves section. Teach viewers how to be unpredictable with Villager's recovery by air stalling and recovering from different places. (not floating in place; will talk about that soon). Remember that you can press and hold b to flap Villager's arms continuously for the duration of the up-B.

Encourage the use of tilts in your guide and their application, recovery tips, bowling ball tips, etc. Putting pressure and limiting options with the lloid rocket is a key part of playing Villager.

Make sure to specifically remind viewers that Villager's grab sucks and if you want to use it effectively, you should learn how to pivot grab. Villager's pivot grab is long as heck and you should have a comparison in your video: Pivot grab vs Standing/Shield/Dash grab.

Favorable stages for Villager should be included IMO as it will give people a clearer illustration of what kind of Villager is. I also feel identifying common mistakes made by Villager mains (like regrabbing the ledge, predictable recovery, how you can get shield grabbed if you spam aerials and don't space your landings, overeliance on fair/bair/nair for spacing and damage build upt, etc.).

In addition, Autocancels IMO are THE thing to include in a guide. Autocanceling Villager's aerials increases your playing speed significantly. Knowing how to autocancel your aerials will make using Dair on the stage easier and safer. Autocanceling = basically SH (Short-Hopping), using the attack, and landing when the animation is over. This will cancel, or remove, the landing lag from the attack. That is, the amount of time you have to wait before moving again (You can check if you did it correctly by holding shield as soon as you land). Definitely something that separates the good villagers from the average villagers. Beginners should use this to learn how to autocancel easily (I learned it this way):

SH [Shorthop] Rising BAir [Back air] FF [Fast Fall] is a free no landing lag, much easier
For a Rising SH FAir, there's a small time you need to wait in order to get the fast fall cancel.
SH FAir -very small delay- FF.

This might be a bit too advanced, but the advantages of using the c-stick for aerials should also be included. I think that @zeezee said that using the c-stick for aerials becomes much easier once you set one of the shoulder buttons to input a jump. Using the c-stick is one of the hardest things Villager mains have to overcome because of the initial habituation time. A large number of pro Villager mains use the C-stick + L/R Jump because of how fast and easily you can autocancel your aerials.

If you don't want to neglect customs, Show how useful Villager's other customs are in certain matchups. Honestly, most customs sets include the counter sapling, explosive ballons, and lloid rocket/pushy lloid. Pushy lloid has more priority so it's best for close-mid range combat and against Megaman and other heavy projectile users. Even though counter sapling is the most common, Normal sapling is good because the axe serves as an aerial smash attack and it a strong kill option. The super sapling may be used in Doubles.

About the Up-B, Explosive Ballons are best against heavy gimpers and characters with a strong aerial game. However, some argue that the flexibility of the normal Balloon trip is much better against these matchups as they help you recover to the stage faster.

Also Another important thing: Viewers should know that Villager's normal Up-B has certain weaknesses. The Up-B relies on vertical momentum, so if you hover in place or move sideways while using the up b, You decrease the vertical momentum and, thus, the amount of time your Up-B lasts. Ranai made this mistake in a match I saw, I'll try to look for it Found it here

Also, if one of your balloons is popped, the distance you will travel is decreased. Villager is not impermeable during the Up-B and a good dair from Ganon and other chars will both pop your balloons and gimp Villager.

*Riding side b (into a shield) and controlling speed to punish bad timings is a good way to get back into the stage even though opponents can shield it. Emphasize how, even though I still have to kick the bad habit, Dropping from the ledge and Fair-ing isn't always the best option and will usually put you at an unfavorable position.

Most of all, Villager is a character that you have to understand how to use your moves in certain situations, not be overly agressive or defensive and use your safest options. Villager has many ways to mindgame the opponent so players should not hide behind the tree and expect opponents to fall into their obvious traps. Two of my personal problems as a Villager main are repetition (use lots of aerials.) and fear. You should tell players that they shouldn't be afraid to get out there and try to get the gimp or the early kill as long as they know how to tech and do it safely. Dropping a bowling ball from the ledge won't cut it with a lot of characters and smart players WILL know how to punish your spacing and work around it.

As with many characters, It takes time to harvest the fruits of intense training with the character. Although there is great reward, you have to be careful with most of the cast because Villager struggles against rushdowns as well as heavy campers.

There are so many things I wish people knew about Villager, but I need time to think. Truly a really fun character to play with when I'm not frustrated about how much I suck. That's another thing I need to overcome. Getting good takes time and I get frustrated when I lose (Meanwhile, I rock in friendlies because I'm not under the pressure of a tournament setting T___T.)


Edit: Another thing. Ranai is considered to be the best Villager right now so try to get some gameplay of him in your guide as well as gameplay from @zeezee, @Player-1, Salem, Zinoto and I'm forgetting someone else. Salem's match against 6WX shows the amazing trapping side of Villager, so I reccommend watching it even though he lost. I feel good Villager mains should master the offensive, fast paced playstyle of Zee and Ranai as well as the trapping playstyle of Salem.

Edit 2: Even more things. I feel that the Villager boards should keep an archive of Ranai's gameplay (similar to the robin boards with their AWESOME video thread). I like watching his awesome play but like Japanese gameplay, his play is often scattered across youtube and twitch. So for now, Here's some gameplay of him posted on the social thread earlier this month: http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/b/655977080 From 4:21:04 to 4:42:15

Edit 3: If, like me, you resort to autopiloting (relying on the same moves without accounting for variation in matchups) in order win matches, Prepare to spend a LOT of time trying to kick that bad habit. Keeping move variation is a must.

Also, Predictability killed the Villager.

Also, Landing your nairs away from a shield grab is a MUST. I think I already mentioned that.

Edit 4: Some gameplay by yours truly. I'm not relatively good by any means so take everything with a grain of salt and analyze my mistakes (don't worry, I won't get offended if you use this footage and expose any mistakes): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7wlQW0MLkIyqC-AN3iS-mwJ_-PCzJ9fO. please critique my dank Rosa as well, pls thx I love U and your Rosa ace!

Edit 5: Emphasize combos. Dair + U-smash is great for racking up damage in certain matchups. Dair + Up-air works as well if they get out quickly. Dair + a well time F-smash is Villager's secret weapon (If it hits them as soon as they get out of the hole, It's a stock for you because the knockback is not decreased). Jab Jab + D-tilt/Nair/F-tilt may work. Spotdodge + U-tilt works wonders too as U-tilt kills 120+ for a lot of the cast. There are other combos/strings.

Emphasize that Villagers should not punish laggy moves by grabbing. U-smash is a nice punish that comes out quick and racks up some damage. OoS nair is good for approaching and beating dash grabs. I know you say in your videos that ''I don't know what these scrubs are doing running up and shielding'', but Running up + Shielding + OoS nair is pretty good to avoid getting grabbed and serves as an approach option.

Edit 6: I cannot believe I forgot about Jab. Villager's jab has to be one of his best moves even if it looks weak and useless. Jabbing puts PLENTY of shield pressure and forces people to drop their shields and do something, which can help you follow up with other moves. Jab may also outprioritize other jabs and serve as a combo breaker. Jab comes out quick and will allow you to do cool things. Here's something you can show in your video: 1. Have a character like mario, try to punish your ledge spacing by recovering above the ledge. 2. Jab them twice (or sometimes once is enough) to punish their punish. 3. This jab will limit their recovery and they will fall in a straight path. 4. Then, Drop a bowling ball on them and it will most likely hit because they are in the Ball's direct, straight path.

Jab may ALSO beat out spindash but I'm not sure.

A well timed f-tilt beats out Diddy's side B.

Also go into detail of the Timber mechanics.

Edit 7: Proper vectoring and DI helps villager last until ridiculously high percents.

Spamming side B when launch helps Villager survive A LOT more because Side B-stops momentum. Don't forget to tell them to move their stick towards the stage after a successful side b at the blast zone because if not, It will cause them to accidentally suicide as they are so close to the blast zone.

Pro Villagers actually side B TOWARDS the direction they are launched. Although this might affect DI, If you fire the rocket towards the blast zone, It will disappear, respawning the rocket and allowing you to mix up your recovery through Rocket Stalling (stopping in the air) and other options.

Talking about recoveries. Please. PLEEEASE emphasize the importance of mixing up your recovery. Drop from the ledge and Fair isn't always the best option and you will get shield grabbed and punished for it. Alternate methods of recovery are Jump and Side B to air stall, then nair when you fall, as well as other things.

Ledge pressure is a big bad weakness of Villager (at least for me) therefore, mixing up recoveries and not being predictable helps in returning to the stage.

In the reflector matchup, Pocketing reflected lloids is important as they can kill Villager. Even though you should not be predictable with it, you should try to jump back and pocket to avoid being punished. Don't expect people to fall into your pocket/ reflected tree bait and DO NOT use the bowling ball on the ledge in a predictable way, because it can be reflected. Ness can destroy your use of projectiles if you are not careful.

Also, A lot of Villager's moves are projectiles so Fox and Falco can make your life hard if you do not know how to not use your projectiles in a frugal and correct way. Even Villager's UpSmash can be somewhat deflected by fox but it does not affect Villager.

Pivot F-tilt and Fsmash can help you space out your opponents, although, again, you WILL be punished for being predictable.

Pivot Axe (down B) will surprise A LOT of people and trust me, It hits hard. You can also surprise people with Pivot Axe into Tree kills. I've had my fair share of those. Side B- into Tree cut also works.

Also, depending on the matchup and how you play, A Villager may find certain matchups more difficult than others. I have adapted @zeezee 's fast paced style so my worst matchups are Sonic, Shield grabbers and campers like Olimar.

Perfect Shielding, Spotdodging, and Wall jump into bair/riding side B are important tools for villager. Perfect shielding helps tremendously against Pikachu mains who get a dopamine rush from breaking their Neutral special button as well as Megaman players.

**** Learning matchups is important with Villager because if you are not a god at adapting like Zee is, you will have problems with unknown matchups. Take it from experience.

** Did I mention that a lot of Villager's moves linger...for quite a while. Nair, Rising timber, cut timber, Down and Up Aerials, and others.

D-tilt has a crazy long hitbox (good for spacing and limiting approaches, can follow jab-jab (most pro villagers only jab twice and then follow up), Kills at a similar percent to Up-tilt and Fsmash has a good hitbox as well and may hit behind you, depending on the opponents' hurtbox.

Dropping the Bowling Ball from a platform was shown in the Developer Direct back in 2013 when the game was announced. It is still a good surprise attack and I have surprised a lot of people with that move as well. Do not get predictable with it because then it ruins the surprise factor.

*** OoS nair is much, muuuch better than shield grab. Shield grabbing with Villager is possible but the grab is so bad that the tradeoff is not enough.

Do not grab while you are in high percents, You will get punished severely for it. If your opponent is around 125-130+ percent, then a good option may be to do a pivot grab into back throw, you may pummel but at that percent Back throw will kill them and you won't risk letting them mash out. Running past them and then pivot grabbing works wonderfully and many pro villager prefer to do pivot grabs, especially since the pivot grab is ridiculously long and disjointed.

Although you can use other grabs to do some damage, Bthrow is Villager's kill throw, usually killing at 120+ percent (near the ledge).

Stage teching is also an important part of playing Villager as it will prevent him from getting stage spiked often, something that happens a lot with Villager. It took me a while to learn this and wall jumping but it was worth it, trust me.

Edit 8: Ask @Player-1, @PEPESPAIN, @zeezee, @cree318, and other tournament players for pro advice.

@Mtn64 is an amazing Villager main that will tell you a couple of stuff as well.

@MagisteR is a goddess too. She knows all them matchups ;D.

If anyone sees anything wrong in my contribution, please tell me so I can learn and fix it.

Also @ AceStarThe3rd , If you want, I could send you a text file of most the advice I've received from people (Zee's youtube replies, Magister's matchup advice, @Sonsa matchup advice, LordCatGod's advice on matchup and play style, and Sonic, etc.)

Edit 9: Zee has this...thing that he does. He shorthops around and this allows him to quickly land and confuse players who think he'll attack or something. The landing usually leads into Jab, or an empty hop dair, or a nice pivot grab that gets him the stock. I call it the Shorthop Mindgame Method (because it's a mindgame tool according to him) but I would rather have him explain it because I'm in the process of learning and mastering it.

He also reccommends mapping your controller to a Shoulder Jump and C-stick to tilts as it increases the speed and easiness of performing and autocancelling Fair and Bairs. I'm working on using the Tilt mapped C-stick for aerials myself, actually. @zeezee also says to not map the C-stick to Smash attacks as there is a glitch that stops input from the Control stick and stops your aerial momentum.

What you want to do with the C-stick is:

Fair > Jump with or and (in the air) + after a small amount of time, . This is much faster than ++ (wait for a small amount of time) (FF). These inputs auto cancel Fair and reduce the landing lag of the move. Remember that this only applies for rising Bair/Fair and Falling fair/bair will have to go through the full landing lag.

Bair has little to no landing lag so you can SH> Bair> FF freely. I will look for @Mtn64 's specific post that helped me learned the Autocancels. Again, Autocancel = landing when the animation of the move is over.

You can test if you autocancelled your aerials by Inputting and holding a shield as soon as you land. If you did this correctly, then Villager will shield immediately. Autocanceling works for All aerials so it is a necessity for any Villager main to learn it.

Autocanceling Uair is a b**** because of the strict timing and I've never found much use to an autocanceled Uair and I'm still able to do it just not consistently.

Edit 10: Zee's Youtube channel

Hype Villager ditto between Cree and TC1

**F-Tilt and D-tilt come out relatively quick, they are awesome moves.

Edit 11:
Example of Bad Villager play by yours truly

My most MLG kill

Edit 12: My journey from scrub to scrub <--- More examples of bad play, how I played back in the day (5-6 months ago)

This guy has some really good basic play and good use of jab.

Me again, with a basic noob kill from way back when

Edit 13: Forgot about @MJG but he does not post often.

Edit 14: @ Darklink401 is the best Villager in Panama so you can go to him for advice.


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If you have any specific questions, Please don't hesitate in asking us! We want more Villagers to join the meta and discover cool things about our awesome character.

(Will update as I think of things and fix grammar later. Trust me, hopefully this mess will look different tomorrow.)

 

[Wonderf]

Hi @ AceStarThe3rd ! Big Fan here! I'm not the best villager but I'll try to contribute a little bit.

Try to define the type of character Villager is and how/in which situations he's most effective, i.e. Villager works best by adapting and putting pressure in the mid range, instead of an overly defensive play and camping excessively. Strenghts, weaknesses (including worst matchups), OoS options, kill moves, quick, low endlag moves. B-reverse pocket used as a tool to recover safely from the air. Pretty much anything that shows players how Villager is best played.

Frame data is fine but personally, frame data is meaningless for me without a visual representation. (Saying ''Nair comes out at frame X and dair comes out at frame Y'' just will cause players to be confused and not understand anything. Visual + Informative > Logistic + Informative).

You should include AT's like the quick tree, and B-reverse axe. Hitbox data, Nair lingers a lot, etc. Include a Basic moves section. Teach viewers how to be unpredictable with Villager's recovery by air stalling and recovering from different places. (not floating in place; will talk about that soon). Remember that you can press and hold b to flap Villager's arms continuously for the duration of the up-B.

Encourage the use of tilts in your guide and their application, recovery tips, bowling ball tips, etc. Putting pressure and limiting options with the lloid rocket is a key part of playing Villager.

Make sure to specifically remind viewers that Villager's grab sucks and if you want to use it effectively, you should learn how to pivot grab. Villager's pivot grab is long as heck and you should have a comparison in your video: Pivot grab vs Standing/Shield/Dash grab.

Favorable stages for Villager should be included IMO as it will give people a clearer illustration of what kind of Villager is. I also feel identifying common mistakes made by Villager mains (like regrabbing the ledge, predictable recovery, how you can get shield grabbed if you spam aerials and don't space your landings, overeliance on fair/bair/nair for spacing and damage build upt, etc.).

In addition, Autocancels IMO are THE thing to include in a guide. Autocanceling Villager's aerials increases your playing speed significantly. Autocanceling = basically SH and landing when the animation is over. Definitely something that will separate the good villagers from the average villagers.

This might be a bit too advanced, but the advantages of using the c-stick for aerials should also be included. I think that @zeezee said that using the c-stick for aerials becomes much easier once you set one of the shoulder buttons to input a jump. Using the c-stick is one of the hardest things Villager mains have to overcome because of the initial habituation time. A large number of pro Villager mains use the C-stick + L/R Jump because of how fast and easily you can autocancel your aerials.

If you don't want to neglect customs, Show how useful Villager's other customs are in certain matchups. Honestly, most customs sets include the counter sapling, explosive ballons, and lloid rocket/pushy lloid. Pushy lloid has more priority so it's best for close-mid range combat and against Megaman and other heavy projectile users. Even though counter sapling is the most common, Normal sapling is good because the axe serves as an aerial smash attack and it a strong kill option. The super sapling may be used in Doubles.

About the Up-B, Explosive Ballons are best against heavy gimpers and characters with a strong aerial game. However, some argue that the flexibility of the normal Balloon trip is much better against these matchups as they help you recover to the stage faster.

Also Another important thing: Viewers should know that Villager's normal Up-B has certain weaknesses. The Up-B relies on vertical momentum, so if you hover in place or move sideways while using the up b, You decrease the vertical momentum and, thus, the amount of time your Up-B lasts. Ranai made this mistake in a match I saw, I'll try to look for it Found it here

Also, if one of your balloons is popped, the distance you will travel is decreased. Villager is not impermeable during the Up-B and a good dair from Ganon and other chars will both pop your balloons and gimp Villager.

*Riding side b and controlling speed to punish bad timings is a good way to get back into the stage even though opponents can shield it. Emphasize how, even though I still have to kick the bad

Most of all, Villager is a character that you have to understand how to use your moves in certain situations, not be overly agressive or defensive and use your safest options. Villager has many ways to mindgame the opponent so players should not hide behind the tree and expect opponents to fall into their obvious traps. Two of my personal problems as a Villager main are repetition (use lots of aerials.) and fear. You should tell players that they shouldn't be afraid to get out there and try to get the gimp or the early kill as long as they know how to tech and do it safely. Dropping a bowling ball from the ledge won't cut it with a lot of characters and smart players WILL know how to punish your spacing and work around it.

As with many characters, It takes time to harvest the fruits of intense training with the character. Although there is great reward, you have to be careful with most of the cast because Villager struggles against rushdowns as well as heavy campers.

There are so many things I wish people knew about Villager, but I need time to think. Truly a really fun character to play with when I'm not frustrated about how much I suck. That's another thing I need to overcome. Getting good takes time and I get frustrated when I lose (Meanwhile, I rock in friendlies because I'm not under the pressure of a tournament setting T___T.)


Edit: Another thing. Ranai is considered to be the best Villager right now so try to get some gameplay of him in your guide as well as gameplay from @zeezee, @Player-1, Salem, Zinoto and I'm forgetting someone else. Salem's match against 6WX shows the amazing trapping side of Villager, so I reccommend watching it even though he lost. I feel good Villager mains should master the offensive, fast paced playstyle of Zee and Ranai as well as the trapping playstyle of Salem.

Edit 2: Even more things. I feel that the Villager boards should keep an archive of Ranai's gameplay (similar to the robin boards with their AWESOME video thread). I like watching his awesome play but like Japanese gameplay, his play is often scattered across youtube and twitch. So for now, Here's some gameplay of him posted on the social thread earlier this month: http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/b/655977080 From 4:21:04 to 4:42:15

Edit 3: If, like me, you resort to autopiloting (relying on the same moves without accounting for variation in matchups) in order win matches, Prepare to spend a LOT of time trying to kick that bad habit. Keeping move variation is a must.

Also, Predictability killed the Villager.

Also, Landing your nairs away from a shield grab is a MUST. I think I already mentioned that.

Edit 4: Some gameplay by yours truly. I'm not relatively good by any means so take everything with a grain of salt: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7wlQW0MLkIyqC-AN3iS-mwJ_-PCzJ9fO.

Edit 5: Emphasize combos. Dair + U-smash is great for racking up damage in certain matchups. Dair + Up-air works as well if they get out quickly. Dair + a well time F-smash is Villager's secret weapon (If it hits them as soon as they get out of the hole, It's a stock for you because the knockback is not decreased). Jab Jab + D-tilt/Nair/F-tilt may work. Spotdodge + U-tilt works well too as U-tilt kills 120+ for a lot of the cast. There are other combos/strings.

Emphasize that Villagers should not punish laggy moves by grabbing. U-smash is a nice punish that comes out quick and racks up some damage. OoS nair is good for approaching and beating dash grabs. I know you say in your videos that ''I don't know what these scrubs are doing running up and shielding'', but Running up + Shielding + OoS nair is pretty good to avoid getting grabbed and serves as an approach option.

Edit 6: Ask @Player-1, @PEPESPAIN, @zeezee, @cree318, and other tournament players for pro advice.



(Will update as I think of things and fix grammar later)

All the information you could ever need

 

[Mr.Sile]

All the information you could ever need

:D I'm glad you liked it, will fix some things (like grammar, formatting and organizationg) as well as update the post as I think of things. I just want to see more Villager players join the meta.

 

[InsaneSanity]

I really liked your Rosalina guide Ace. Something with the format would be great!

How to properly incorporate the tree like, when should we try to water it or the best place to plant the tree on stage. (Center or ledge).

IDK these are just some things I need to incorporate into my Villager play and I'd like some help on it ^-^'

 

[Mr.Sile]

How to properly incorporate the tree like, when should we try to water it or the best place to plant the tree on stage. (Center or ledge).
'

Good Point, I forgot about to talk about that in my contribution.

Basic Villager mind game: While the opponent is offstage, Plant Timber on the ledge of near the edge (preferably near with some space to spare). 2. Water it (You can half water it and leave it for later/when the opponent is in the right place. 3. Then act as if you are going to cut it (strike it once) while they are on the ledge. The tree is hard to avoid while on the ledge so they will most likely respect it and roll. 4. When they roll, turn to the other side and hit them with an Fsmash to punish their roll.

This works best if you know how to ledge trump, yet ANOTHER great Villager tool. If they don't have any ledge invincibility, Their only option is to roll to avoid a well spaced Timber.

If you are not that type of person, Quick tree works wonders against aggressive opponents. The tree comes out quickly and the hitbox lingers, without mention that the rising tree kills early too. Aerial fighters will fall for the quick tree a couple of times but don't be afraid to mix it up and Full water the sapling.

Another thing/situation is that, if the opponent does a normal ledge get up, then if you time it correctly, the short linger of the Bowling Ball's hitbox will hit them even if they look like they still have some invincibility left.

I think that may be it.

Edit: Nope, nvrmd. There is still the fact that If you plant the tree at the center of the stage, It serves as a stage control tool, which is important to have that tool at your disposal. In the center, the opponent will likely respect it and they can't take you away from it because it's equidistant to both sides of the stage. Also, If you play around the sapling and you plant it too close to the ledge, this can negatively affect you because it puts you in two kinds of risk:

1. Attacks closer to the ledge have more of a chance to kill you so even though Villager is amazing at the ledge and can fish out those deep kills with Nair and aerials, Attacks like DDD's back air and Peach's fair have a greater chance to kill you, so in certain matchups, staying at the center or a bit away from the ledge is beneficial.

2. You lose stage control, which in turn means that Rushdowns and characters with long grab ranges can apply great amounts of ledge pressure (something I struggle with myself) and make safely getting back to the stage the hardest thing ever. (Something something don't drop down and fair because you'll get punished with a shield grab or something else.)


Edit 2: @ AceStarThe3rd Another thing is to encourage training drills of low falling bairs and fairs in order to improve in the Shortie matchups (Kirby, Pikachu, Jiggs (kind of), Olimar, Villager).

Also, Villager's advantage is his short stature lets him have a small hurtbox.

Also, Side B > Run and Dash grab is a basic combo/set up but doesn't work every time in mid-high play.

Edit 3: Timber is often a good way to relieve pressure.

 

[Nintendoge_]

1. Have a character like mario, try to punish your ledge spacing by recovering above the ledge. 2. Jab them twice (or sometimes once is enough) to punish their punish. 3. This jab will limit their recovery and they will fall in a straight path. 4. Then, Drop a bowling ball on them and it will most likely hit because they are in the Ball's direct, straight path.

http://i.giflike.com/hkFALaK
I think this thread needed a gif of Jtails getting rekt by the aforementioned combo. ^^

 

[Mr.Sile]

@ AceStarThe3rd Found the post that helped me learn autocancels, will update the post when I get back.

SH Rising BAir FF is a free no landing lag, much easier
For a Rising SH FAir, there's a small time you need to wait in order to get the fast fall cancel.
SH FAir -very small delay- FF.

Edit: Here's a thread on using the C-stick for aerials as well. Pros came in and said some interesting things.

 

[Mr.Sile]

I think I might have killed this thread....Sorry Ace for unloading all the info at one time.

 

[Antonykun]

I think I might have killed this thread....Sorry Ace for unloading all the info at one time.

no, you just gave ace all he needs now so he can get working on the guide a little bit earlier

 

[Mr.Sile]

@ AceStarThe3rd

I just realized something huge that you may or may not put in the guide. It has to do with autopiloting, a huge problem for a large number of Villagers.

Autopiloting in terms of Villager is mindlessly throwing out attacks without thinking about them, expecting them to work. The problem is that you can't stop and think about the situation you are in. This is an issue for me because it prevents me from using adaptability and mindgames to win the match. Also, since I over-rely on shooting fairs and nairs to win, I don't use any of my other moves, including useful moves like tilts, tree and other things. It's really a problem for me and it's frustrating to kick that habit.

I think I found a way to relieve it. I've been doing it for the past 2 days and I have been kicking a lot of bad habits, even though I'm playing relatively worse.

Similar to someone turning tap jump off for the first time, What you have to do it change your control scheme.

For example, I'm currently trying to learn how to use Shoulder Jump + C-stick aerials. I believe mastering this will help me use the C-stick more efficiently and improve my play. Now, the problem was that even though I changed my L button to input jump instead of shield, I went back to using Y (my normal jump button) and forgot about Shoulder Jump without realizing it.

Therefore, I decided to instead change my Y button to input something other than jump. I made it input shield. (My X button is mapped to a grab; I shield with R). Now I can't go back to my old habits.

Then, I had my brother play against me (he's plays well) and I tried using my ''impaired'' control scheme against him.

When I started playing with this control scheme, It was like I was experiencing a Benjamin Button case. My play had gotten worse and it was confusing. However, this confusion is what gave me the opportunity to mix up my moves and ledge recovery. Even though I was losing, it was gratifying because my brain couldn't autopilot anymore, so I was using every tool at my disposal and being creative. I had to stop and regularly ask myself, ''What is the best move I can throw out right now, taking in mind distance and lag?''. After about 5 matches, I adapted a bit and started winning.

Quitting cold turkey is sometimes the best & fastest way to kick a habit. I'm excited to see where this takes me and will change my controls around to kick any autopiloting from now on.

Tl;Dr: Quit cold turkey, the same way you do the first time you turn tap jump off. Your brain can't go back to bad habits and it makes you stop and think about what to do.

 

[Mr.Sile]

I might have mentioned this already, but you should show the range of Villager's tilts (especially D-tilt's humongous hitbox) and the long range of Pivot grab. Pivot grab's range is looong and disjointed.

 

[Zeckemyro]

I'd love to have tips on how to use Timber properly. Especially against characters that can reflect it back at me. Spacing is another good point as Villager is not that heavy and has a good projectile in the form of Lloid. Some aerial tips wouldn't be too much as well. I don't use n-air enough even though I know how effective it is.

 

[AusGremlinBoy]

Hi @ AceStarThe3rd ! Huge fan here, and I hope I can help :D
Emphasise all of villager's traps, including following lloid rocket into either an empty hop, grab, tilt, shield or f/n/bair.
Really talk about how situational his grab is, and that if you are going to grab, you should pivot grab because it is ridiculously disjointed. Also talk about all his ATs, which can be found on this thread.
Also talk about his MUs. His MUs are SO IMPORTANT. Each character has a different style of play required to beat them, and you need to know when to swap out to your pocket/secondary.
I honestly don't have much more to add to that wall of text that @ Mr.Sile posted, but thanks for reading!

 

[Antonykun]

@ AceStarThe3rd i got an idea for a focus for Undefeatable: Villager episode 12, Empty Hop into jabs
Villager has a good short hop because of N-air but n-air is beaten by a shield so what do you do? jump, bluff the N-air, and go for Jabs.
Villagers Jabs either beat or trade with every shield grab and most Jump canceled OOS so villager gets a nice mixup

 

[Darklink401]

I'd love to have tips on how to use Timber properly. Especially against characters that can reflect it back at me. Spacing is another good point as Villager is not that heavy and has a good projectile in the form of Lloid. Some aerial tips wouldn't be too much as well. I don't use n-air enough even though I know how effective it is.

Swear to god I thought you were me

Also you forgot mee Sileeee ;-;

Naw jk, I ain't that good.


Yo that's a great guide and all, but keep in mind that punising laggy moves with grab, if you know you can get it, IS okay, because if you can get a backthrow off at high %s, you get a kill.


Speaking of throws, fthrow is best for low %s, because it has good knockback, just almost non-existent KB growth

 

[J.Noble]

Villager has a sort of counter when the Lloid first comes out and it actually Kills if an opponent hits it. Check it out.

 

[AnchorTea]

Villager has a sort of counter when the Lloid first comes out and it actually Kills if an opponent hits it. Check it out.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ive-noticed-that-loid-can-be-used-as-a-counter.394192/

 

[Darklink401]

Though I've noticed it doesn't kill quite that early if you just release it normally...wonder if, if I hold it, it will hurt them more...

 

[MillionGoldMan]

(Im still getting used to smashboards, so keep that in mind please)
Hey ace! im a massive fan. The only reason i have an account here is because you reccomend it on your videos.

Anyway, just a small tip. I would reccomend you putting in the significant match ups that villager has. Not every character, but the ones that stand out. Like palutena for example as she is normally thought as a annoying character for villager.

You should also add some bad habits that people find themselves doing. I cant really think of many habits at the time of writing this, but ill make sure to edit if i do find some. A habit just like how some little macs dash attack on shield.

Anyway, I cant tell if these were too obvious or not. I dont normally see to many people do tutorials when its not just a showcase on the characters moves

 

[TR33]

Like Mr.Sile said about players autopiloting at neutral, that's something you probably want to drill hard at the end of the guide. Autopiloting is a bad habit for alot of players but with villager it's almost conditioned. Players with bad defensive fundamentals, or simply one's found on wifi [ because of input lag ] will eat a bunch of dmg at neutral, and the thing is it's almost encouraged against players like this. Because ideally if you could control neutral by mindlessly spamming fair/bair + rocket, why wouldn't you? However, once you deal with a player with the skill to simply power shield and punish you're giving up neutral and it's bad habit to break. Conversely, try not to make these options sound poor. They're still powerful zoning tools and should be used in conjunction with the rest of villager's kit to gain/maintain advantage. This is one of the points I'd emphasize at least.

On a side note, and not that it really matters, but isn't Ace a Rosa main? I really don't care who writes what article, so long as the information is accurate. Just interesting is all.

 

[Mr.Sile]

Like Mr.Sile said about players autopiloting at neutral, that's something you probably want to drill hard at the end of the guide. Autopiloting is a bad habit for alot of players but with villager it's almost conditioned. Players with bad defensive fundamentals, or simply one's found on wifi [ because of input lag ] will eat a bunch of dmg at neutral, and the thing is it's almost encouraged against players like this. Because ideally if you could control neutral by mindlessly spamming fair/bair + rocket, why wouldn't you? However, once you deal with a player with the skill to simply power shield and punish you're giving up neutral and it's bad habit to break. Conversely, try not to make these options sound poor. They're still powerful zoning tools and should be used in conjunction with the rest of villager's kit to gain/maintain advantage. This is one of the points I'd emphasize at least.

On a side note, and not that it really matters, but isn't Ace a Rosa main? I really don't care who writes what article, so long as the information is accurate. Just interesting is all.

He mains like 5 characters, including Villager, Rosalina, ROB, Dr.Mario and Jr. I think.

 

[SoniCraft]

A fancy video guide to Villager would be pretty cool. Kinda like that one for Robin that uses dialogue between Lucina and Robin. There could be all sorts of cameos from the AC games!

But more on topic...autopiloting is certainly very easy to fall prey to as Villager. I remember when I first started playing the game on 3DS and constantly losing on FG because I always did the same darn thing. Lloid, plant sapling, grow tree, chop once, camp behind tree. Or if I felt like being aggressive for some reason I would always lloid, run, jump, and fair/dair right into their shield! It took many punishes and dumb losses for me to get out of that. The tactic of mixing up your game is paramount in any fighting game, and Villager is a character who can mix it up very well.

 

[Antonykun]

have you guys seen his Rosalina guide?

 

[SoniCraft]

have you guys seen his Rosalina guide?

I have not.

 

[Antonykun]

I have not.

then go watch it!
not only is it a good guide but it also paves the way in how @ AceStarThe3rd will probably approach the Villager guide

 

[Mr.Sile]

Forgot to say that Nair is Villager's sex kick but not a kick. Comes out frame 3. Spam it when being bamboozled in the air.

 

[jmjb]

wow.. you drop some mega useful info here. your guide is great!
one thing I will say is you explain what auto canceling is, because this is a beginners guide and its likely they haven't heard of it, but then you go onto explaining it with more terminology, worse abbreviated terminology I've never heard of.. you explain auto canceling as "SH Rising BAir FF" LOL WHAT IS THAT??

edit: after practicing some of this now after reading your guide, I have some useful things to add.

down tilt has a farther range than f tilt (slightly), and they both kill off the top at the EXACT same % (verified this in training mode just now).

Villagers exploding balloons, you can manually make them explode whenever you want by tapping A, and the second balloon to explode by tapping A again. Also when exploding the second balloon you'll be lunged extremely high in the air, high enough to rival the normal air trips total mobility.

On the subject of Villagers balloon trip, the balloons decay the more you use them, so if you spam it repeatedly, eventually you'll only fly for half a second.

Jab: holding down jab is actually not Villagers fastest jab. replacing taunts on d pad with attack, and spamming a circle around the d pad, you can actually repeatedly jab faster than if you just held down A.

riding Lloyd can be sped up or slowed down all the way to a stand still by holding left or right after getting on him.

it'd be good to bring up 'half watering' (where you water thr tree a slight bit then retreat, so that when you water it later, it only needs a drop to sprout.
* which brings up the water can, you might not realize you're actually able to walk forward or backwards while watering.
*another mechanic of the water can is that it can be used to edge guard without resetting recoveries (like Mario's cape).

Oh, another thing about fair and BAir is if you're hitting a short opponent like Kirby, sending out the fair or BAir during the end of the falling part of the hop will allow you to shoot much lower.

uninterrupted retreating NAirs: I haven't heard anyone else bring this up, I noticed if you c stick diagonally (upper left/right, lower left/right) you can produce a neutral air. the advantage of using a diagonal c stick is that you don't lose any precious spacing in the form of horizontal movement, like you do when you Nair by letting go of the D-stick to neutral A.

 

[AusGremlinBoy]

So, AceStarThe3rd , did this go anywhere or is it dead?

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Oh yea, I told my fanbase that I had it pretty much finished, but the file corrupted. Since then, I've lacked motivation to start the whole thing over =/

 

[silver64js]

Oh yea, I told my fanbase that I had it pretty much finished, but the file corrupted. Since then, I've lacked motivation to start the whole thing over =/

PLEASE ACE WE WANT IT

 

[AusGremlinBoy]

Oh yea, I told my fanbase that I had it pretty much finished, but the file corrupted. Since then, I've lacked motivation to start the whole thing over =/

Oh, thanks Ace! We don't really mind if it takes too long, or if you don't do it. Just work on it when you can and we'll be fine