ITT: Your thoughts on Kirby's design

Dec 20, 2013
Dream Land
Specifically, what you believe he was intended by the PMBR to be, what he is right now, and what he should be in future builds. If no one is around to advance his meta, we may as well talk about something.

What the PMDT wanted him to be: A slow glass cannon who struggles from a distance, but wrecks at melee range and offstage. Has a slew of mobility tools (Stone, Dash Attack, Cutter Dash) and unique attributes (crouch, D-Throw, Inhale, etc.) to mitigate his weaknesses of speed, range, and weight. Grab game consists only of D-Throw for tech chases and B-Throw for positioning.

What he is: A slow glass cannon who struggles from a distance and wrecks at melee range and offstage, but now has extremely limited answers to characters who can outrun/outrange/CC/camp him due to less safe burst options. Thanks to lack of compensation for toning down said options, his matchups hinge entirely on ease of edgeguarding and effectiveness of crouching in neutral. Grab game still consists only of D-Throw and B-Throw.

What he should become:
A glass cannon who is considerably faster than average in the air and has average speed on the ground, but still struggles from a distance and is great offstage/close range. Retains his weaknesses of speed/range/weight, and burst options remain toned down, playing second fiddle to typical spacing tactics. Better air speed/traction give a tremendous boost to his abilities to space in neutral and chase after opponents in bad positions. U-Tilt is given back its 3.02 frame data to be useful against fastfallers at low damage, but more KBG to prevent it from comboing them forever. To de-centralize his grab game, either F-Throw pops up at a better angle for follow-ups, or U-Throw kills opponents at late percents.

I'm curious to see what the rest of you have to say. :3
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Jun 12, 2013
LOL so many people are going to be coming here posting how they want cheesier design. Here are my 2 cents tho.

PMDT: I really dont know, I feel like they are trying to make Kirby fine they just dont know how. Possibly very Sheik and Puff esc where kills mainly come from edgeguards and has a very simple and easy design. The direction the game is going Im sure he will be a lot better designed in future patches once they remove all the dumb stuff he has but i still firmly believe they want him to be one of the more ResidentSleeper (aka boring) characters. Dont get me wrong, with every patch they seem to be moving him in the right direction.

Currently: BOOTY. HOT GARBAGE. Not just saying this because of balance, but his design has always been this way in PM imo. Literally the slowest character in the game that doesnt have a projectile (besides maybe ganon, and ganon has other things and a better design) taking into account run speed, wavedash length, and air mobility... and relies on burst movement for 60% of everything. Really bad at being aggro unless you are throwing out moves. One of the lowest overall ranges in the game. Lacking moveset, everything but 3-4 moves (not including throws) is below average. Can be camped out super easily. Kirbycide is one of his best moves (some could argue that its not that good and honestly it isnt, thats just how bad his moveset is). Has some reliable kill setups that ive seen no Kirby do (maybe because they dont know?) Honestly believe almost any player/character that knows this matchup has nothing to worry about, they just might have to play "lamer".

What I want: Easily better mobility on the ground and in the air... faster run speed, more air mobility, better wavedash possibly. Quick enough on the ground to reaction tech chase Sheik and Mewtwo. More threatening and versatile neutral game. Fthrow and Uthrow should be better, but idk how for Fthrow. Fthrow shouldn't be a guaranteed combo throw, I dont want smash 4 Luigi as PM Kirby, Kappa. I feel like Fthrow should just be a faster animation, or just more of a positional throw. Uthrow more KB obviously. Better moveset (changes too long to list). More range on a few moves. Hurtbox extensions/changes or whatever so that he can platform drop cancel his Nair/Bair on hit. Dash attack reworked. Aggro playstyle, way more aggro than Puff Sheik. Think more like Sheik Falcon. Nothing "degenerate" or "braindead" about his playstyle (for lack of better words). I would love copy to be overall more important, but idk programming limits so thats all ill say on that.
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