cman
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 593
Basic Overview
Item Standard Play (ISP) is a project to make a competitive ruleset which includes many of the items in the game. If you want more information, go here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164675
ISP is starting to get a fair amount of following, including some tourny representation. The World Hobo tournament in April is going to have an ISP brawl event, and some big names are planning to play in it (including inui and M2k). Whobo Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216278
That said, it is probably wise to start discussion about how Marth would perform in both singles and doubles ISP. Feel free to contribute or discuss anything. This is obviously nowhere near complete, so any input is appreciated. I plan to update this post with more infomation and include any suggestions.
General Strategies (Singles)
Glide Tossing- While holding an item, glide tossing is hitting the C stick while rolling, causing your character to throw the item, and glide various distances. The timing of the C sticking can affect the length of the glide. Marth's glide tosses are very good, especially the backwards glide toss. They have pretty good range and, depending on the item thrown, have many follow ups, including some kill moves. Often the opponent can be grabbed or attacked before they can respond. This is central to ISP, so make sure you learn all the properties of it. Don't get predictable. I'll probably add a lot to this section later.
Juggling- Effective item use can aid Marth's already good juggling abilities. Throwing upward, then following up with upair can usually force the opponent to make a mistake, and get hit by one or the other. They may react and catch the item or airdodge it, but then will almost certainly get hit by the following upair. Be careful when the opponent has an item. A glide tossed up or down throw can also be used to harass the opponent.
Beneath Marth- This is usually a problem area for Marth due to his bad dair. However with an item, this can be covered. There are two options: throwing down, or z dropping the item. Throwing the item has the advantage of moving quickly, and possibly hitting the oppponent. Z dropping has the advantage of having no animation, so it can be used with airdodges or jumps. Each can be applicable in different situations, and it is wise to mix it up to keep the opponent slightly off guard.
Bludgeoning Items- This catagory includes items like the Beam Sword and Lip's Stick. Since they operate in the same way in most cases, I'm putting a section here, then may cover individual items in more detail in the Item Specific catagory.
Anyway, when smash-swinging many of these items, Marth swings his sword first, then the item. The sword hit is pathetic, with medium range and minimal damage. If you don't hit with the sword first, however, it heavily telegraphs the upcoming item hit because of the unique animation. This robs the class of items of one of their better features, which is range. You can still tilt with the item, but it is usually a better idea just throw it.
Edge Guarding- Edge guarding with items is very effective in the same way that juggling with items is; it forces the opponent to react to two attacks in short succession. Aside from chasing off the stage, you could also just throw the item you have. Against certain recoveries (like Snake's), throwing would be a better idea by either forcing him to airdodge and C4 himself or get hit by the item and die since he usually recovers so close to the blastzones.
General Strategies (Doubles)
-To be Added
Item Specific (Singles)
Smashball- Currently banned, but there is talk of adding smashballs as a one-use-per-match item. Because of that, it is worth discussing. Marth's final smash is a very interesting because it has a few special properties.
First and foremost: it is a one hit kill. Finding set-ups for it is critical. The most promising is probably grab releases. Some testing will be needed to see on who, if anyone, it would be a guaranteed hit (possibly meta knight?).
Second: Horizontal range. Marth's FS travels exactly horizontally from the time you activate it until the end. If you activate it when you are directly to the side of the stage, you will hit the stage, and, upon ending the animation, grab the stage. You can also cancel the horizontal motion during travel by pressing B again. This means Marth can recover from almost anywhere when he has the final smash, and no opponent would dare try to edgeguard. It may or may not count as a use of the FS towards the rules.
Third: Opening a smash ball does not force Marth to play differently. Certain Characters rely heavily on the neutral B (like Falco), but Marth can play completely normally. This would be especially useful if the one-use-per-match rule is in place, since Marth would not worry about having to change his play style once he broke a smashball.
Fire Flower- Another interesting item in that when hit by it, the opponent recieves very little knockback, even at 100+ percent. There are several possible follow ups if glide tossed, but DS might be the best. It seems like a near guaranteed hit, assuming that the fire flower hits, and could be a very good kill move.
Pitfall- Guaranteed Fsmash if you hit them with a Pitfall. Make sure you get this item. If they get it and plant it, you might want to knock them away and activate it immediately to prevent getting caught by it later.
Spring- If you happen to have this item while recovering, use your midair jump, and z drop the spring midway through the jump. You will fall onto the spring, bounce upwards quite far, and regain the midair jump. This could also be useful at the ledge to cover Marth's mediocre options.
Bunny Hood- The bunny hood has both big positives and big negetives. The positive is that it greatly helps recovery and can aid in juggling. The negative is that Marth's dash length is over half the length of Smashville, meaning you can't shield during that huge distance. This makes running very risky, and rarely worth doing. If you can work around the negative (by choosing only to walk, or something else), then it is a good idea to pick it up. If you generally rely heavily on running, then leave it.
Screw Attack- You can't short hop while you have a screw attack. You can cancel the screw attack into aerials, but they will be full hopped regardless. However, you can get a lot of damage out of this. A screw attack canceled into an uair deals 22 ish damage. Your choice on whether or not to pick this up.
Item Specific (Doubles)
- To Be added
Item Standard Play (ISP) is a project to make a competitive ruleset which includes many of the items in the game. If you want more information, go here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164675
ISP is starting to get a fair amount of following, including some tourny representation. The World Hobo tournament in April is going to have an ISP brawl event, and some big names are planning to play in it (including inui and M2k). Whobo Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216278
That said, it is probably wise to start discussion about how Marth would perform in both singles and doubles ISP. Feel free to contribute or discuss anything. This is obviously nowhere near complete, so any input is appreciated. I plan to update this post with more infomation and include any suggestions.
General Strategies (Singles)
Glide Tossing- While holding an item, glide tossing is hitting the C stick while rolling, causing your character to throw the item, and glide various distances. The timing of the C sticking can affect the length of the glide. Marth's glide tosses are very good, especially the backwards glide toss. They have pretty good range and, depending on the item thrown, have many follow ups, including some kill moves. Often the opponent can be grabbed or attacked before they can respond. This is central to ISP, so make sure you learn all the properties of it. Don't get predictable. I'll probably add a lot to this section later.
Juggling- Effective item use can aid Marth's already good juggling abilities. Throwing upward, then following up with upair can usually force the opponent to make a mistake, and get hit by one or the other. They may react and catch the item or airdodge it, but then will almost certainly get hit by the following upair. Be careful when the opponent has an item. A glide tossed up or down throw can also be used to harass the opponent.
Beneath Marth- This is usually a problem area for Marth due to his bad dair. However with an item, this can be covered. There are two options: throwing down, or z dropping the item. Throwing the item has the advantage of moving quickly, and possibly hitting the oppponent. Z dropping has the advantage of having no animation, so it can be used with airdodges or jumps. Each can be applicable in different situations, and it is wise to mix it up to keep the opponent slightly off guard.
Bludgeoning Items- This catagory includes items like the Beam Sword and Lip's Stick. Since they operate in the same way in most cases, I'm putting a section here, then may cover individual items in more detail in the Item Specific catagory.
Anyway, when smash-swinging many of these items, Marth swings his sword first, then the item. The sword hit is pathetic, with medium range and minimal damage. If you don't hit with the sword first, however, it heavily telegraphs the upcoming item hit because of the unique animation. This robs the class of items of one of their better features, which is range. You can still tilt with the item, but it is usually a better idea just throw it.
Edge Guarding- Edge guarding with items is very effective in the same way that juggling with items is; it forces the opponent to react to two attacks in short succession. Aside from chasing off the stage, you could also just throw the item you have. Against certain recoveries (like Snake's), throwing would be a better idea by either forcing him to airdodge and C4 himself or get hit by the item and die since he usually recovers so close to the blastzones.
General Strategies (Doubles)
-To be Added
Item Specific (Singles)
Smashball- Currently banned, but there is talk of adding smashballs as a one-use-per-match item. Because of that, it is worth discussing. Marth's final smash is a very interesting because it has a few special properties.
First and foremost: it is a one hit kill. Finding set-ups for it is critical. The most promising is probably grab releases. Some testing will be needed to see on who, if anyone, it would be a guaranteed hit (possibly meta knight?).
Second: Horizontal range. Marth's FS travels exactly horizontally from the time you activate it until the end. If you activate it when you are directly to the side of the stage, you will hit the stage, and, upon ending the animation, grab the stage. You can also cancel the horizontal motion during travel by pressing B again. This means Marth can recover from almost anywhere when he has the final smash, and no opponent would dare try to edgeguard. It may or may not count as a use of the FS towards the rules.
Third: Opening a smash ball does not force Marth to play differently. Certain Characters rely heavily on the neutral B (like Falco), but Marth can play completely normally. This would be especially useful if the one-use-per-match rule is in place, since Marth would not worry about having to change his play style once he broke a smashball.
Fire Flower- Another interesting item in that when hit by it, the opponent recieves very little knockback, even at 100+ percent. There are several possible follow ups if glide tossed, but DS might be the best. It seems like a near guaranteed hit, assuming that the fire flower hits, and could be a very good kill move.
Pitfall- Guaranteed Fsmash if you hit them with a Pitfall. Make sure you get this item. If they get it and plant it, you might want to knock them away and activate it immediately to prevent getting caught by it later.
Spring- If you happen to have this item while recovering, use your midair jump, and z drop the spring midway through the jump. You will fall onto the spring, bounce upwards quite far, and regain the midair jump. This could also be useful at the ledge to cover Marth's mediocre options.
Bunny Hood- The bunny hood has both big positives and big negetives. The positive is that it greatly helps recovery and can aid in juggling. The negative is that Marth's dash length is over half the length of Smashville, meaning you can't shield during that huge distance. This makes running very risky, and rarely worth doing. If you can work around the negative (by choosing only to walk, or something else), then it is a good idea to pick it up. If you generally rely heavily on running, then leave it.
Screw Attack- You can't short hop while you have a screw attack. You can cancel the screw attack into aerials, but they will be full hopped regardless. However, you can get a lot of damage out of this. A screw attack canceled into an uair deals 22 ish damage. Your choice on whether or not to pick this up.
Item Specific (Doubles)
- To Be added
