Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Falgor]

Hi guys, I'm back just to bring some light on the french poll showed by @ smashtriforce77

I have to point that I'm a member of the french community (I was considered the most vocal Isaac fan, over there).
To clarify things for you, even the french community thinks that this poll was done badly, so the results are not extremely precise. All I can say is that Isaac is indeed really popular among french Smash players. More than in the rest of the world on average, I think.

I may or may not be partly responsible for this popularity, since all I've been doing there is explaining why Isaac would be a perfect candidate.

About the Mii-K. Rool case, I'm not that worried that Isaac could also have been made into a Mii Fighter costume.
I do think that it's going to hurt K. Rool's chances, though. I think Sakurai could prefer Dixie over K. Rool, for reasons only him know. After all, she was planned for Brawl.

Anyway it doesn't really change things much for us: It's Isaac or nothing, most probably. We've been in this unsure situation for so long, now... We just have to wait for news.

I feel like it all boils down to: Is the visible part of the Smash community, which answered fanmade polls, a precise representation of the actual Ballot votes? Until now I've been thinking that yes for various reasons. We'll probably never have a certain answer to that question since Nintendo most likely won't show the results at all.

Let's just hope the Ballot won't bring characters out of nowhere.

 

[smashtriforce77]

Thank you for mentioning my message, I feel invisible.

 

[candyissweet]

I don't really see the point in jumping to conclusions at this point. The whole mii costume thing is so ambiguous that I don't think it confirms or deconfirms him. Speculate all you want, that's fine, but I'm not swaying towards any side until we get more information.

As for Isaac, I would still be really happy seeing a Mii costume, mainly because we have no signs of Isaac in the game as for now. Of course, I'm not giving up on his playable status, but seeing how unexpected the results may turn out, I think it's best to remain optimistic about the game's path for DLC.

 

[Falgor]

New Smashified hint. Kinda looks like the Golden Sun logo. In anything else, it could be the Animal Crossing logo, but it doesn't make any sense with the other hints, sooo... Looks good I guess?

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[Skyblade12]

New Smashified hint. Kinda looks like the Golden Sun logo. In anything else, it could be the Animal Crossing logo, but it doesn't make any sense with the other hints, sooo... Looks good I guess?

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Styled after the Golden Sun logo, but it says "Smashified!" instead? We're looking at the exclamation mark in the bottom right.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

New Smashified hint. Kinda looks like the Golden Sun logo. In anything else, it could be the Animal Crossing logo, but it doesn't make any sense with the other hints, sooo... Looks good I guess?

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GS Logo

AC Logo.

Doesn't look like either of them to me. I looked up the JP logo too and same problem.

 

[9Blades]

New Smashified hint. Kinda looks like the Golden Sun logo. In anything else, it could be the Animal Crossing logo, but it doesn't make any sense with the other hints, sooo... Looks good I guess?

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It has to be Golden Sun. Looks just like the title screen of the first game. Instead it just says "Smashified!"like how that was done for Bomberman.

 

[Dsull]

i could see Isaac being two forms, one being like a reverse Robin. Robin pays more attention to spells and range, while Isaac is more about melee with "charges" of spells similar to Robin for interrupts, stuns, distractions, etc rather than main gameplay (charge up time preventing the camper play, since in the game his powers worthy of mention the Djinn must recharge between use).

The other could be focusing on the Djinn aspect, which would put him borderline as complex as Ryu with the moveset. His four specials release a specific Djinn from the game, and he has to "set" it to use it again (essentially waste a moment to regain it) or "release" it and any other ready Djinn for a power attack depending on how many are released. Of course leaving him in a slightly weakened state while they are ready for release and in a vastly weakened state while they recover from being released. Basically KO Punch/Waft level of play since if it doesnt kill, youre in trouble.

Also, the comment in the OP about his chances being voided due to lack of Japan popularity is bs. They added characters from Japan-only games (Fire Emblem far as i know never released until AFTER Melee did outside japan) and even people who had no idea who he was/where he came from loved him.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

i could see Isaac being two forms, one being like a reverse Robin. Robin pays more attention to spells and range, while Isaac is more about melee with "charges" of spells similar to Robin for interrupts, stuns, distractions, etc rather than main gameplay (charge up time preventing the camper play, since in the game his powers worthy of mention the Djinn must recharge between use).

The other could be focusing on the Djinn aspect, which would put him borderline as complex as Ryu with the moveset. His four specials release a specific Djinn from the game, and he has to "set" it to use it again (essentially waste a moment to regain it) or "release" it and any other ready Djinn for a power attack depending on how many are released. Of course leaving him in a slightly weakened state while they are ready for release and in a vastly weakened state while they recover from being released. Basically KO Punch/Waft level of play since if it doesnt kill, youre in trouble.

Also, the comment in the OP about his chances being voided due to lack of Japan popularity is bs. They added characters from Japan-only games (Fire Emblem far as i know never released until AFTER Melee did outside japan) and even people who had no idea who he was/where he came from loved him.

Or we could just get the Isaac that most of us want. Less swordplay, more Earth magic. Djinn in some way. Earth Magic spells out range in my mind.

 

[candyissweet]

I don't want Isaac to be Smashified.... I just want to see his actual game model....

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I don't want Isaac to be Smashified.... I just want to see his actual game model....

 

[Capita]

The problem is... there really aren't many viable candidates left. If Mii costumes do deconfirm characters, that outright denies two of the biggest ones: K. Rool and Inklings. There's still the likes of Isaac, but if K. Rool and Inklings won't get it, why would suddenly Isaac get in instead?

According to an aggregate amount of votes from unofficial polls, Isaac on average receives the most support aside from K. Rool. If Mii costumes are meant to invalidate potential characters, two of Isaac's biggest competitors (K. Rool and Inklings) are out of the ballot which leads Isaac to top the poll.

The logical reason I disagree with this is because there's simply no reason for K. Rool to be a Mii costume and not playable. I outright dismissed the notion of a K. Rool costume because, as far as I was concerned, there's no way they'd do it. He'd either be playable or he'd get nothing. He hasn't had any importance since 2008. There's no logical reason to make him a costume.


On the other hand, it could be explained if his final design is a hybrid design of his various outfit, and they wanted his personas to be represented as individual Mii costumes instead. That I can see as a logical argument. I see literally no logical reason for K. Rool to merely be a costume, and if he is, I don't think it helps Isaac at all because Isaac and K. Rool were in almost literally the exact same situation, except Isaac was LESS requested.

I don't see why Isaac is anywhere near similar to King K. Rool, except that their relevance is dropping, but still have strong grass roots movements.

Isaac is the protagonist of an unrepresented series that recently had their assist trophy removed, but added an extra soundtrack along with it. Isaac's most recent appearance was in a main game that was released after Brawl (2010).

Sorry, that's faulty logic. Being revealed at the same time isn't the problem. Chrom is perfectly fine in context. The problem with Rool is how incredibly random it is considering Nintendo has said nothing regarding him since 2008, and unlike Chrom he doesn't have any sort of role in Smash barring a trophy (even K.K. Slider has a minor one as a stage element).

I don't know what the hell is going on, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

Maybe it isn't random. What we sort of need to realize is that all of this support for K. Rool isn't exactly official, and we do not know the scale of how many ballot submissions are from individuals that do not participate in online communities such as Smashboards. Maybe King K. Rool isn't really crushing the competition, and he's placing in fifth or sixth, which might be above the amount of characters that Sakurai wants to add. If that were to be the case, this might be Sakurai's gesture of recognizing the passionate support that this character has gotten despite his relevance dropping.

I'd take an Isaac costume over nothing at all.

As hurt as I'd be over Isaac being a costume, this significantly boosts his chances of appearing in Sma5h.

In all honesty, I don't know what to feel about this whole thing. I don't see any reasoning for a ballot front runner to be made as a Mii costume for the purposes of pranking the fan base when the ballot still has a few months to go. It might just be hard for a lot of people to see one of the most requested characters be denied as a playable character. Yeah, I understand that Mii costumes don't necessarily mean that the character doesn't have any chances of making it into the game, but why would Sakurai try to do that if he planned on having K. Rool become playable?

News like this should theoretically make me happy since it increases Isaac's chances, but I can't help but feel bad for the K. Rool fan base.

 

[candyissweet]

I don't know, I always have had this apprehension towards Smashified characters and Smash fantasies in general.

It's a hard feeling to explain, and one I can't really argue well, but if you do see my point, which I doubt anyone would, then I'd be relieved to see someone who feels for me.

My stretched logic goes a bit like this; Smashifying Isaac isn't going to increase his chances of being in Smash Bros, in fact it will instead hurt his chances. Take Smash Flash 2 for example, where Isaac is coming as a playable character. The reason I'm just not okay with this happening is because Smash Flash 2 is an unofficial game that is BASED off of Smash. When you have to come up with which characters should be added to the game, Isaac is a character who is not important to the game already because now he already IS playable unofficially, so what's the point of adding in a character who you can already play as somewhere else in a Smash format when there are several other characters who haven't gotten the spotlight yet? This is the thing that frightens me the most; it's the fantasies of Isaac being in Smash that already exist which greatly lowers their need to be in Smash.

This goes to Smashified because of the model. We saw King K Rool smashified lately, and now we're trivializing whether he's deconfirmed because of his Mii costume. Because how can you make an original model for a character if an unofficial one from the masters of Smash art have already made one intended for use in Smash 4? All of the OFFICIAL artwork have been complete originals, so it becomes a lot harder to call it 'original' if another artwork already exists out there. Never (yet) have we seen a character go from being Smashified to being a playable character. How can the Smash dev team make a completely original model if they have already seen an extremely accurate model on the internet that can just be pulled into Smash without fearing copyright laws from creating a similar model.

So in the end, I feel my problem goes with a cross of the limits in a character's design and originality. I am not in any way against Smashified or Smash Flash 2, it just makes me feel uneasy.

 

[Shin F.]

I don't know, I always have had this apprehension towards Smashified characters and Smash fantasies in general.

It's a hard feeling to explain, and one I can't really argue well, but if you do see my point, which I doubt anyone would, then I'd be relieved to see someone who feels for me.

My stretched logic goes a bit like this; Smashifying Isaac isn't going to increase his chances of being in Smash Bros, in fact it will instead hurt his chances. Take Smash Flash 2 for example, where Isaac is coming as a playable character. The reason I'm just not okay with this happening is because Smash Flash 2 is an unofficial game that is BASED off of Smash. When you have to come up with which characters should be added to the game, Isaac is a character who is not important to the game already because now he already IS playable unofficially, so what's the point of adding in a character who you can already play as somewhere else in a Smash format when there are several other characters who haven't gotten the spotlight yet? This is the thing that frightens me the most; it's the fantasies of Isaac being in Smash that already exist which greatly lowers their need to be in Smash.

This goes to Smashified because of the model. We saw King K Rool smashified lately, and now we're trivializing whether he's deconfirmed because of his Mii costume. Because how can you make an original model for a character if an unofficial one from the masters of Smash art have already made one intended for use in Smash 4? All of the OFFICIAL artwork have been complete originals, so it becomes a lot harder to call it 'original' if another artwork already exists out there. Never (yet) have we seen a character go from being Smashified to being a playable character. How can the Smash dev team make a completely original model if they have already seen an extremely accurate model on the internet that can just be pulled into Smash without fearing copyright laws from creating a similar model.

So in the end, I feel my problem goes with a cross of the limits in a character's design and originality. I am not in any way against Smashified or Smash Flash 2, it just makes me feel uneasy.

If it makes you feel any better, Mega Man was playable in SSF2 long before he was revealed for Smash 4, and I'm sure there was been plenty of fanart of him being in Smash before then.

 

[N3ON]

Hi hi!

It's Isaac.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

As if all those other indicators weren't already enough...

 

[PWN3]

The next set of Mii costumes just went up on the Japanese Smash Twitter account: https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP

Seems like any Lloyd Irving fans might have to make do with a Swordfighter costume, unfortunately.

On the Isaac front, well... No news is good news. This obviously doesn't speak much in regards to him being playable or not, but at the very least we know his chances haven't dropped. Yay?

EDIT: Managed to spell Lloyd's name wrong. Go me.

 

[AwesomeCauliflower68]

Haven't been here for a while but it's good to be back. I've been putting all of my focus on K Rool lately but with Isaac being the only character I want with an actual chance now, figured I should come back here.

I've also been playing Golden Sun lately and have been constantly thinking about how all of his moves would fit into smash, stuck on Saturos and Menardi at Venus Lighthouse though. Isaac's losing animation has got to involve the two giant hands clapping.

Excited for Isaac Smashified as well (Come on, it's gotta be him).

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Haven't been here for a while but it's good to be back. I've been putting all of my focus on K Rool lately but with Isaac being the only character I want with an actual chance now, figured I should come back here.

I've also been playing Golden Sun lately and have been constantly thinking about how all of his moves would fit into smash, stuck on Saturos and Menardi at Venus Lighthouse though. Isaac's losing animation has got to involve the two giant hands clapping.

Don't kount out the King just yet mate. And Isaac's losing animation should totally be that.

 

[Capita]

The next set of Mii costumes just went up on the Japanese Smash Twitter account: https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP

Seems like any Lloyd Irving fans might have to make do with a Swordfighter costume, unfortunately.

On the Isaac front, well... No news is good news. This obviously doesn't speak much in regards to him being playable or not, but at the very least we know his chances haven't dropped. Yay?

EDIT: Managed to spell Lloyd's name wrong. Go me.

I didn't think Lloyd was going to get any recognition. I kind of like this. Isaac not getting a costume is also good… sort of.
Honestly, I can't help but feel K. Rool's chances have dropped. Why would K. Rool be the one prank costume while other somewhat highly requested characters such as Inklings and Lloyd are not pranks as well?
If those three characters are all indeed pranks, I think it's safe to assume that the pranks would be reserved for the top 3 most requested characters. If that's the case, Lloyd is most certainly the outlier, having yet to show consistent top 10 placements in mock ballots. Which reaffirms the point that we will never know the true ballot results until it's released. The only way I can see K. Rool being a prank costume is if, and only if he is the number 1 most suggested character on the official ballot. Even then, I'm skeptical.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isaac dodged a bullet today.

 

[AwesomeCauliflower68]

Isaac dodged a bullet today.

You bet he did. I was fully expecting to see Mii Sword Fighter Isaac today. It still isn't over though, there is more being revealed in the update I think.

 

[candyissweet]

You bet he did. I was fully expecting to see Mii Sword Fighter Isaac today. It still isn't over though, there is more being revealed in the update I think.

I saw the spiky hair and almost had a heart attack for an instant. THANK THE SUN.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm thinking that if K.Rool's issue was relevancy than Isaac is in much better shape.

His last game was 2010.

Punch Out!! is more dead than Golden Sun is.

We might have lucked out.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

To keep everyone in a good mood, listen to some of Retrospector's remashed Golden Sun music.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm thinking that if K.Rool's issue was relevancy than Isaac is in much better shape.

His last game was 2010.

Punch Out!! is more dead than Golden Sun is.

We might have lucked out.

Well, there is at least one more bundle of Miis coming out tomorrow, so it is said. (which is a **** load of Miis for no apparent reason. I don't outright despise anyone on this roster, even Dark Pit or WFT, but Mii Fighter is quickly approaching that. Screw Miis, I wan alternate skins for the main cast, Sakurai went way overboard on the Mii Fighters).

 

[Sandfall]

As much as I want him, I honestly don't think that we'll get Isaac as DLC unless a new Golden Sun is on the horizon. If that ever happens, it would probably be my favorite video game reveal ever.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

As much as I want him, I honestly don't think that we'll get Isaac as DLC unless a new Golden Sun is on the horizon. If that ever happens, it would probably be my favorite video game reveal ever.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

I mean if Sakurai wants to ignore another top choice from the ballot and one with extreme potential moveset wise.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As much as I want him, I honestly don't think that we'll get Isaac as DLC unless a new Golden Sun is on the horizon. If that ever happens, it would probably be my favorite video game reveal ever.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

Mm....

Maybe.

After all, I'm not sure if relevancy matters so much here.

After all, with Dark Dawn Golden Sun is more relevant than Punch Out!!

 

[Deleted member]

I mean if Sakurai wants to ignore another top choice from the ballot and one with extreme potential moveset wise.

I'd normally agree with you.

But I don't know what to believe anymore with Sakurai's logic. I wouldn't put it past him to ignore Isaac completely at this point. Though if K. Rool is out of the running (and he's not, not yet) along with Snake and Ice Climbers, then Isaac and Wolf are pretty much the last big names.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Mm....

Maybe.

After all, I'm not sure if relevancy matters so much here.

After all, with Dark Dawn Golden Sun is more relevant than Punch Out!!

Well its more recent, don't exactly know if its more relevant though. I pretty sure these two words don't mean the same thing.

I'd normally agree with you.

But I don't know what to believe anymore with Sakurai's logic. I wouldn't put it past him to ignore Isaac completely at this point. Though if K. Rool is out of the running (and he's not, not yet) along with Snake and Ice Climbers, then Isaac and Wolf are pretty much the last big names.

Goku






From Yuyuki

edit - sorry about the double post btw.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm thinking that if K.Rool's issue was relevancy than Isaac is in much better shape.

His last game was 2010.

Punch Out!! is more dead than Golden Sun is.

We might have lucked out.

I feel like if Sakurai really understood what "fan service" meant, relevancy wouldn't be an issue.

The only thing I can imagine right now is either Sakurai is playing a trick with K Rool or for some reason he's decided on Dixie Kong instead.....or perhaps he's chosen Banjo & Kazooie and doesn't want to add two Rare characters. (That last thought seems a bit sketchy though)

 

[Sandfall]

Mm....

Maybe.

After all, I'm not sure if relevancy matters so much here.

After all, with Dark Dawn Golden Sun is more relevant than Punch Out!!

I think, for DLC at least, relevancy matters a lot. They're probably making decisions on what will sell well over anything else, really. Compared to some of the other popular choices, Isaac is relatively obscure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think, for DLC at least, relevancy matters a lot. They're probably making decisions on what will sell well over anything else, really. Compared to some of the other popular choices, Isaac is relatively obscure.

Not as obscure as you think.

Remember, Golden Sun is a million seller.

I'm not trying to say "ISAAC WILL BE IN! I SWEAR!" but I do think you can afford to be a bit more optimistic.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Not as obscure as you think.

Remember, Golden Sun is a million seller.

I'm not trying to say "ISAAC WILL BE IN! I SWEAR!" but I do think you can afford to be a bit more optimistic.

Golden Sun was pretty popular back in the early 2000s.

Also thanks for that warning, its just splendid.


Its not actually splendid since this is a joke. I explain my jokes a lot.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Speaking of Golden Sun back in the 2000's, something to note:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun

Release date(s) Game Boy Advance

• JP August 1, 2001

The Golden Sun franchise anniversary is Saturday, the day after the update drops. Also, the first two days we had one Sword Fighter, Brawler, and Gunner each. Let that sink in.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The Golden Sun franchise anniversary is Saturday, the day after the update drops. Also, the first two days we had one Sword Fighter, Brawler, and Gunner each. Let that sink in.

Yeah I don't like that.

We made it past two days, we can't fall at the final hurdle.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah I don't like that.

We made it past two days, we can't fall at the final hurdle.

I still think people are blowing this way out of proportion. There's too many top candidates, and the extremely unlikely option of getting third-party DLC simply makes me believe they're adding popular characters (and costumes of characters with roles in the game already) as Mii Fighter costumes, regardless of whether they are added later or not.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I still think people are blowing this way out of proportion. There's too many top candidates, and the extremely unlikely option of getting third-party DLC simply makes me believe they're adding popular characters (and costumes of characters with roles in the game already) as Mii Fighter costumes, regardless of whether they are added later or not.

Yeah. I'm on the fence about it right now.

I don't think getting a Mii Costume is a hard deconfirmation or anything like that.....but I'd still rather not see Isaac becoming a Mii Costume.

 

[Geno Boost]

Speaking of Golden Sun back in the 2000's, something to note:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun

Release date(s) Game Boy Advance

• JP August 1, 2001

The Golden Sun franchise anniversary is Saturday, the day after the update drops. Also, the first two days we had one Sword Fighter, Brawler, and Gunner each. Let that sink in.

OMG my birthday is in August 1!
I am started getting worried about Isaac because he may ends up as mii costume but I am still hoping, sakurai please put my 2nd most wanted character already I am tired of waiting I want Isaac in my birthday

 

[Liverpool19]

OMG my birthday is in August 1!
I am started getting worried about Isaac because he may ends up as mii costume but I am still hoping, sakurai please put my 2nd most wanted character already I am tired of waiting I want Isaac in my birthday

Wow, that's a cowinkidink (I'm sorry I'll never say that again) my friends B-day is on the 1st.