Is Zelda still considered "the worst?"

[chris1855]

^

Well, the question is as always, who is worse than Zelda? Don't say palutena.

Anyways, as someone else pointed out, being surrounded by characters of similar quality makes the sting of bottom tier not nearly as bad as it has been in previous smash titles.

BOI, jiggs, gunner, swordfighter. Palutena is like 7th worst at this point lol

 

[Sean_bot]

Ooooooh lookie here the high and mighty top tier main has descended upon us with all their grace and glory to give us the opportunity to bicker over with one of us was the most ****ed by Sakurai. I am most honored by your presence and will proceed to bash/defend Zelda/my main. Well I say BAH! Worst character means absolutely nothing at all when you're surrounded by others that are all quite similar in quality. You can take your game of low tier gladiator and shove it Sean_bot . Wait are you even a human, or are you a robot in disguise Mr. Bot? I guess time will tell, as in the 6 minutes you spend spamm- zoning me out huh. I've had it with your nonsense. Zelda mains, and anyone else here who thought their character was cool when they bought the game and had a 15 minute crying session upon reading their frame data for the first time, we must UNITE AS ONE. The LOW TIER UNION! To destroy the top tier menace, because we're all kinda ok at teams or something...

/s Sean I'm sure you're super cool

Oh and PS Ganon isn't the worst character in the game by far. Do any of you punks have a Bair or Uair that come our frame 10 and 6(respectively) and do 17% and 12%(respectively) and kill and autocancel out of a SHFF and are ridiculously disjointed to the degree that you may as well just use them instead of an airdodge?

I didn't think so

I experienced so many different emotions while reading this LOL

 

[Macchiato]

Imo we're bottom 3, but not the worst.

 

[frest123]

Imo we're bottom 3, but not the worst.

Who's worse?

 

[Deleted member]

Who's worse?

and (1111) are definitely worse than Zelda.

 

[Macchiato]

Who's worse?

 

[Deleted member]

>dedede worse than zelda

This literally, factually 100% incorrect lol

 

[Sean_bot]

Imo we're bottom 3, but not the worst.

I'm actually really curious for your bottom 3. Who is with Zelda in those spots?

 

[Macchiato]

>dedede worse than zelda

This literally, factually 100% incorrect lol

I think dedede's incredibly bad

I'm actually really curious for your bottom 3. Who is with Zelda in those spots?

dedede puff

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

I think dedede's incredibly bad

dedede puff

Yeah, dedede is not bottom thanks to his space control and unkillability, even if he has bad matchups with a ton of characters (including Zelda). Puff I'll agree with, she doesn't have much going for her.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, dedede is not bottom thanks to his space control and unkillability, even if he has bad matchups with a ton of characters (including Zelda). Puff I'll agree with, she doesn't have much going for her.

Zelda isn't a bad matchup. Dedede just has to play annoyingly patient and not commit to anything. It's even at worst.

Also, Dedede has a pretty good advantage state even if it doesn't make up for the rest of his flaws. Much better than Zelda's, that's for sure. Good luck attempting to challenge to a Dedede recovering low. I'm sure you'll have a grand time.

I still believe he's bottom 5, but if you think for one second he's worse than Zelda you're legit delusional lol

 

[BJN39]

but if you think X you're legit delusional lol

It's phrases like this that fuel my bloodlust.

:^)

 

[Deleted member]

It's phrases like this that fuel my bloodlust.

:^)

but it's true tho

come and get it gorl

 

[BJN39]

but it's true tho

come and get it gorl

It doesn't matter what you were saying was right/wrong

It's the phrase that is horrible SMH.

enjoy your ban j/s

Let's be clear D3 can also be and likely is better than Zelda (Thinking of muh argument about Jiggs rn lmao.) that's just aside the point.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't matter what you were saying was right/wrong

It's the phrase that is horrible SMH.

enjoy your ban j/s

Let's be clear D3 can also be and likely is better than Zelda (Thinking of muh argument about Jiggs rn lmao.) that's just aside the point.

>banning one of my secondaries

does Zelda never fight for her friends

but yeah i apologize if I came off as d***ish in what I said, I still believe D3 is not worse than Zelda though.

 

[BJN39]

>banning one of my secondaries

does Zelda never fight for her friends

but yeah i apologize if I came off as d****** in what I said, I still believe D3 is not worse than Zelda though.

Nah it's fine. I pretty much just temporarily derailed this thread to be picky and it wasn't necessary. No hard feelings? <3

D3 can be on the basement stairway instead of the floor

 

[Volt826]

and (1111) are definitely worse than Zelda.

I think I'd agree with that. 1111 Mii Brawler medium weight is complete garbage and is worse than Zelda IMO.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

What about Ganon? What does he have over us that makes him better? I almost wanna debate DHD, but nah he does have some qualities.

 

[Deleted member]

What about Ganon? What does he have over us that makes him better? I almost wanna debate DHD, but nah he does have some qualities.

Better reward on hit, better aerials and reach, a command grab and in general having some of the best shield threatening ability in the game. Not to mention he has more representation and results than Zelda. He's dragged down by his mobility, poor grab, frame and meme recovery.

And Duck Hunt is better than Zelda too. He at least has something actually resembling a neutral.

 

[Volt826]

DDD is a very underrated character. Ganon... I don't see anything viable about him at all. I think he's the worst character in the game. I think Zelda is around 5th.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

True..... And what does Zelda have over ganon?
Better recovery
Better comboes(I know his dmg per hit basically negates this, but still)
Much better grab and throw game
Slightly better OOS options
Ill include a better offstage game as well
This one I actually am hesitant to say, but better specials?

Zelda at least has airspeed, doesn't mean much with her Ariel's, but it's nice to have.
Having a gimpable recovery like Ganons does hurt.
She does at least have.....projectiles, 1 is near useless and the other is situational, but it's something.

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty moot to discuss who is the worst out of the bottom 3. We all know they have significant disadvantages and will never be viable in top level play.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

Zelda is the worst.
It's not a revolutionary idea at all.

Definitely not the worst, might want to look a little harder into that.

You know a character is the worst when people that main her and have put every effort into her (and still are putting every effort into her) call her the worst themselves.

So.... Jigglypuff?

 

[Deleted member]

The edit button exists for a reason.

And nah, Jiggs mains are mostly confident in their character. I think Jiggs is pretty terrible but that just needs pointing out.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Can we sorta agree that there could be a tie? I mean even the bottom tiers all have qualities that technically do keep them from being the worst, it's REALLY tough to find out the true worst.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

Can we sorta agree that there could be a tie? I mean even the bottom tiers all have qualities that technically do keep them from being the worst, it's REALLY tough to find out the true worst.

Indeed. When it really comes down to it, the skill and knowledge of the player is really what wins competitions.

 

[Axel311]

I think is worse

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Ugh.....people sometimes irritate me.....so this will be a bit of a rant
Ok, OBVIOUSLY ZELDA HAS A GOOD DEAL OF FLAWS.
Yea she has more problems then she really should and doesn't have that great of a MU spread.

But if your going to always bash the character, AT LEAST talk about SOME of the strengths she has. Yea, she is one of the worst characters, we already heard that for the millionth time, she is fundamentally broken, yea haven't heard that enough, she is garbage, again one of the most common things I see that don't surprise me.

I get that she has some negatives that really hold her back, especially in the third smash game in a row, but come on now, if your gonna bash a character and never at least talk about some positives, that not only gives other people the same idea of the character, but people who main them can almost take it personally and constantly question themselves......Is she worth playing? Why did I play this character? Should I switch mains?

She has strengths, and anyone to truly deny that is VERY ignorant.
I won't deny that they aren't enough to keep her out of bottom, but they are enough to make her not easy to choose as the worst character.

She has
Great, long distanced recovery
Dangerously OoS game
Deadly edge guards
Decent strings and combos
Decent grab game
Very strong moves
Good range/Disjoint on her moves

Now her flaws(may forget some, but we know them anyways)
HORRIBLY laggy attacks
near non existent approach
Lackluster overall projectiles, which adds up to not being able to force approaches
Bad frame data
Awful landing options
Few if any reliable kill moves
Requires precise placements for a decent amount of her moves
Meh..mobility

Yep, that's sure some strengths and weaknesses, and the weaknesses EASILY become apparent and have a bigger impact then her strengths.

We shouldn't just bash a character, any character, this is the best smash game for even bottom tier characters to at least have a chance to do something. You have to give them some sort of chance, it for sure won't be any time soon that they will start improving things, but there's ALWAYS that chance that you may not know.

Now, if people want to still be like how they are, and just bash the character anyways......well let them do their unneeded thing.
We Zelda mains(Most I would assume)are playing this character to show she has some things going for her, and if we want to prove she isn't the worst, then we will.

We just have to play the game and not let people's opinions on the character get to us, together, I know it's possible.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

Zelda is definitely not the worst, I believe she's gotten much stronger since Brawl, and given who uses her, can even compete with the other characters. She doesn't need Sheik to live, and is now her own character, so quit bellyaching and acknowledge that you can, and probably WILL be beaten by Zelda.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZDBhPHlZo

 

[Megamang]

You cited someone that, when anything is on the line, does not use Zelda.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

You cited someone that, when anything is on the line, does not use Zelda.

Well something WAS on the line, and he DID use Zelda. He wouldn't even have tried if he thought he couldn't win.

 

[Megamang]

Umm, nothing was on the line. That is a for glory tournament. The end of the video, he even mentions 'of all the characters, Zelda won!' which isnt a vote of confidence.

He was doing it for his viewers, who want to see Zelda being played by Acestarthe3rd.

I'm not saying Zelda can't win, im not saying anyone shouldn't play her, or try and advance her meta. I'm just pointing out the error in your citation. I'm beginning to think that was a mistake though. I'm not a Zelda board native, just noticed this thread from the character board selection screen and decided to see what was up.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

Umm, nothing was on the line. That is a for glory tournament. The end of the video, he even mentions 'of all the characters, Zelda won!' which isnt a vote of confidence.

He was doing it for his viewers, who want to see Zelda being played by Acestarthe3rd.

I'm not saying Zelda can't win, im not saying anyone shouldn't play her, or try and advance her meta. I'm just pointing out the error in your citation. I'm beginning to think that was a mistake though. I'm not a Zelda board native, just noticed this thread from the character board selection screen and decided to see what was up.

I thought of it as more of a: "Zelda doesn't suck, in your face" kind of moment, but it's whatever. Yeah, I just posted it for fun really. I found it entertaining. Yeah, I'm not sure what was going on there.

 

[ZombieBran]

Sooo
With the new buffs, is Zelda still the worst?

 

[buzzard]

I'd say she's above Jigglypuff for sure.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Dedede

And that's it.

 

[Furret]

Sooo
With the new buffs, is Zelda still the worst?

she wasn't the worst before the buff

 

[KlicKlac]

Sooo
With the new buffs, is Zelda still the worst?

No way. Poor jiggs and some of the other bottom tiers like duck hunt dog, dedede, and ganondorf are still struggling for good buffs.

It looks like this patch jumped zelda, samus, and charizard out of bottom tier for sure. Not saying they are even mid tier, but at least out of bottom 5.

 

[Silverwind 2020]

In my mind, and I think Sakurai will agree with me: There is no set best or worst character. That is entirely up to the players. Each character has their strengths and weaknesses, and he's tried his best to even them out a little more so this remains true.

 

[Deleted member]

Sure as hell better than , that's for sure. Maybe as well but time will tell. Her getting 9th at Come to Papa was still very impressive, but she needs more.

 

[Lord Renning]

I think an expert Zelda player could make her functionally lower mid-tier pre-buffs. For everyone else she was low-tier.

Now I think Zelda is consistently mid-tier or higher. She might even be upper mid-tier but certainly not high tier without more buffs, and her ability to deal with any higher tiers comes from MU advantage or player skill.