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Is Yoshi worth putting time in on?

qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
I have been playing smash religiously for a while now. I have a good handle on all characters and really dont know who i want to main yet. Yoshi has always been my favorite character but in PM he doesn't feel that great. I have been playing only Yoshi on netplay and with my friends for about two weeks (i play with yoshi alot already) and getting nothing but compliments on how i play him. I just dont feel like yoshi is on the same level as other characters. Out of all the different things to learn and master about smash picking a main has been the worst thing for me =P
 

qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
Another big reason i feel sketchy about using Yoshi is that Amsa didn't move to yoshi on PM, If someone that knows the Ins and outs of a character from a previous version and drops them in a new one i would think they know something that i dont know. But then again i think lucario has a style that Amsa might like more with is move cancels and everything. =P
 
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Damp

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Massachusetts
Yoshi has all the tools to be a winning character in this game. Great movement (especially with platforms), combos combos combos combos, killing power, an insane grab game, and a really nice recovery. He can also escape combos with his super armor and nair.

The reason aMsa didn't make the switch is most likely due to the lack of being able to parry attacks. This may be fixed in 3.5, but I'm unsure.
 

qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
Yea its like there are two halfs of me =P one half sees Yoshi for all his glory and the other half is telling me i need to move on. I play so many characters its so hard for me to commit on one =P but im really trying to tell myself that yoshi is it.
 

didds

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
in a tree
Yoshi has the tools to be great. I doubt he'll ever be top tier and he requires a lot more work than other characters since he can be pretty button heavy at high level. It can also be demoralizing when one mispressed button can cause your death.

If you want to play a sleeper character that will turn heads though... Yoshi is your man
 

TomBoComBo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
544
Those on the forum already know of my love for this character. He is a monster if you play him correctly it Just takes getting used to how he moves and does things
 

rje457

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
38
Location
College Station
I think another reason Amsa plays Lucario instead of Yoshi in P.M. is because it's a different game and he wants to play a different character, like Armada playing Pit instead of Peach.
 

qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
Went to a local tournament and got third with yoshi so i think im set on him =P Playing on netplay the past few weeks has def helped also =]] got a lot of compliments, I have a few bad noob habits that i need to break. @ TomBoComBo TomBoComBo If you see me on netplay his me up man!
 

TomBoComBo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
544
Went to a local tournament and got third with yoshi so i think im set on him =P Playing on netplay the past few weeks has def helped also =]] got a lot of compliments, I have a few bad noob habits that i need to break. @ TomBoComBo TomBoComBo If you see me on netplay his me up man!
Sure thing! I go by Tombo, friend me and challenge me if you dare!
 

Nuttre

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
153
Location
Dundee
Just a word of warning: you WILL have problems with neutral at the start.
 

Kudrah

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
61
Location
Savannah, GA
I always ask myself if it's even worth sticking to Yoshi in the long run. Compared to characters like Pit, Diddy, or Mewtwo, his tools in the neutral game are pretty dismal.

Mewtwo and Fox are my secondaries, and at times, I question if either of them should be upgraded to a main as a replacement to Yoshi. They're both fantastic characters, but they're nowhere near given the dedication and effort that I put into playing Yoshi. Now, regarding bad match-ups, they can counter a lot of characters that I struggle with using Yoshi, so that's great.

I've had people tell me to just drop Yoshi and make Mewtwo or Fox my main, but that just makes me furious. If I'm playing such an "awful" character, I am nowhere near the intention of becoming a tier *****. Yes, I get it, Yoshi's not top tier, but he's at the very least viable.

But the main reason why I still play Yoshi is because if I turn my back on him, I turn my back on everything that I stand for. The moment I picked this character back on the release of 3.0, I said to myself, "l always liked Yoshi, so let's see how far I can take him". I remember how people react to him, how I do things that they never saw, and how much hype it makes. My friends tell legends of my Yoshi like it's the embodiment of nightmares, and all that gives a great feeling of accomplishment.

If you're willing to stick with Yoshi, know that you will have to put in a significantly larger amount of effort than people who just go for the borderline-broken characters. You will struggle, but that just makes the triumph even more satisfying. In my opinion, Yoshi won't go anywhere past mid-tier, but he can be a monster in his own right once he's given the opportunity.
 
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qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
First off if anyone new to yoshi is reading this I want to say that yoshi is the most satisfying character in game by far. If you are pondering about playing yoshi more than likely you will love this dude!

Thanks for all the support guys! and Tombo I added you on netplay im qpMONKEYMIKEqp.

I am one of those people that dont want to be the character everyone else is. Also i have always loved yoshi! My friends that i play with at home all hate my yoshi and even has my wife telling me im a a *** with yoshi =P. But i knew i was going to this super small local tournament and just set up netplay so i just kept with yoshi even though i had my doubts that he has the tools. After really getting his rising aerials down and his down throw combos there was light at the end of the tunnel. My biggest point of satisfaction was when i played characters in the tourney with tether recoveries and just rising naired them into submission off the edge. Their faces were priceless because no one mains yoshi around here.

It is kind of weird because when i watch videos of yoshi it seems like people get kills off the top alot but my style is more forcing the player off the ledge and keeping them off. I want to work on my upairs, upsmashed, and uptilts to make my game more well rounded.

The only thing was i had played a good pikachu that put me in losers and then came to a close match against a sheik that would chain grab like crazy.... i tried to DI out but it wasnt working for some reason. Does anyone have any matchup suggestions for yoshi vs pikachu and sheiks grabs.
 

didds

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
in a tree
Yoshi's neutral isn't dismal, Ganon's neutral is dismal. Yoshi actually can get a ton of mileage out of the way his double jump operates, not to mention how useful his side B and neutral B can be in neutral.

The only issue is that Yoshi takes commitment with every move you make. Every one of his moves can be either super safe or super dangerous, it's just how it's applied. Yoshi doesn't have shine pressure or a Jiggs bair that can be applied safely everytime, his neutral takes a lot of thought. but dismal? eh, I'm not convinced.
 

Kudrah

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
61
Location
Savannah, GA
Yoshi's neutral isn't dismal, Ganon's neutral is dismal. Yoshi actually can get a ton of mileage out of the way his double jump operates, not to mention how useful his side B and neutral B can be in neutral.

The only issue is that Yoshi takes commitment with every move you make. Every one of his moves can be either super safe or super dangerous, it's just how it's applied. Yoshi doesn't have shine pressure or a Jiggs bair that can be applied safely everytime, his neutral takes a lot of thought. but dismal? eh, I'm not convinced.
Okay, so "dismal" wasn't the best choice of word, but that amount of commitment is why his neutral game isn't the best. Ganon's neutral? Yeah, not gonna disagree.

The lack of safety doesn't allow Yoshi to get away with anything, but when I'm against laser-spammers and banana-slingers, the only thing you can do is weave around their pressure and find an opening.
 

TomBoComBo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
544
Okay, so "dismal" wasn't the best choice of word, but that amount of commitment is why his neutral game isn't the best. Ganon's neutral? Yeah, not gonna disagree.

The lack of safety doesn't allow Yoshi to get away with anything, but when I'm against laser-spammers and banana-slingers, the only thing you can do is weave around their pressure and find an opening.
This is the exact reason why I play such a solid yoshi. I treat smash like high-speed chess where you can trick people into thinking they can't move certain pieces at certain times. Or as a simpler example, playing Rock Paper Scissors over and over again. At times you can make it so they can only pick paper.
Anyways, what did said about Yoshi's neutral is spot on, it may take commitment, but if you think out your approach, it can be absurdly safe rather than risky. It's all about playing to your opponent and finding out what they expect you to do and what they're prepared for. I'll put out more about my personal neutral later on if you guys want, but everyone in my PM community thinks yoshi has crazy safe options for a reason ;)
 

Kudrah

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
61
Location
Savannah, GA
This is the exact reason why I play such a solid yoshi. I treat smash like high-speed chess where you can trick people into thinking they can't move certain pieces at certain times. Or as a simpler example, playing Rock Paper Scissors over and over again. At times you can make it so they can only pick paper.
Anyways, what did said about Yoshi's neutral is spot on, it may take commitment, but if you think out your approach, it can be absurdly safe rather than risky. It's all about playing to your opponent and finding out what they expect you to do and what they're prepared for. I'll put out more about my personal neutral later on if you guys want, but everyone in my PM community thinks yoshi has crazy safe options for a reason ;)
The way I play the neutral game boils down to a heavy dash dance/wavedash/waveland movement. I don't needlessly charge in, but if the opponent gets too close or whiffs, that's my window of opportunity.
 

TomBoComBo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
544
The way I play the neutral game boils down to a heavy dash dance/wavedash/waveland movement. I don't needlessly charge in, but if the opponent gets too close or whiffs, that's my window of opportunity.
Not saying that's a bad strategy, but if that's your mental game, you depend on you opponent messing up. While that's more than enough vs less experienced players, it's not something that will let you get to the next level and fight top players. Yoshi has many many ways to deal intense pressure and be completely all over the opponent, you don't have to needlessly charge in to do it. For me, it's all about learning the player and punishing their habits. I find what's automatic for them and exploit it. When they figure out that it's a weakness, it forces them to adapt, thus making them think that much more and making their game slower and/or uncomfortable. Boiling down everything, does yoshi have safe and reliable options in neutral? Yes, but you have to have an understanding of your opponent, then everything becomes super safe.
 

Scatz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
2,593
Location
ATL, GA
There was exactly no difference in what you just wrote between his playstyle and yours. As a matter of fact, it's how the game is played: to make your opponent cause mistakes for you to capitalize on. Whether it's by conditioning or their own choice, it's the same thing. Most moves just don't start off being super safe. The conditioning of your opponent creates bigger windows where your move(s) becomes more safe/unsafe.

Also, the commitment part is applicable to every character. >.> In neutral, moves that keep you from being in control of your character for a while isn't that great as compared to just standing still. The level of commitment is what makes characters. Fox and Falco have low commitment because of quick (and low lag) aerials combined with shine to cover mistakes. Take Ganon's aerials, and most of them are long in startup while having medicore cooldown. It's a lot worse for Ganon since you need to preemptively attack, which means you have to commit more (aka less safe in general terms).

Yoshi's neutral is meh because his aerials have some long startups. At the same time, they don't have disjoints to overrule that problem. So, it's often more dangerous for Yoshi to use moves freely in neutral since he's liable for a spaced attack. His ground game is good with some new options (I still think egg roll is a terrble neutral option), but it's glaring enough since Yoshi needs space to use his neutral game effectively.
 
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didds

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
in a tree
I only use egg roll in neutral as, say, a hard read micro option. I know they attack where I am, I hop back with egg roll to dodge, and the momentum switch from the land punishes their wiff.

Like you said, it becomes feasible with conditioning.
 
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