Is there any way to recover after a DAir spike gimp on an opponent?

[Kara]

As far as I'm aware, Cloud's DAir lasts FOREVER, and because of that I have yet to successfully recover off the stage when I spike someone with it. This area I'm talking about is below the stage's platform grab line, and not up above or way off to the side. I've tested it in training many, many times to see what I can get away with and nothing worked outside of using Limit Break Climhazzard. Even just walking off the edge and using DAir is a guaranteed suicide mission as even a midair jump and Climhazzard won't save you unless you have Limit.

So with this in mind, is there anything I can do (outside of not doing it) to help me survive? I feel like it's wasted unless the enemy goes really high with their Up-B or something that you can read and gimp that way. I've yet to get any real mileage on it except on a couple of swag finishes where I was ahead in the stocks and even if I missed I wouldn't lose. Alternatively, I'm trying to learn how to gimp with him better, but his horizontal recovery isn't exactly the best either.

Edit: Speaking of recovery, he doesn't get much of a recovery combo when trying to use his Up-B after an air dodge due to the dodge's "end lag" timer. I tried it with Link and was more or less able to recover back onto the stage if I dodged just a bit above the standing line. Cloud doesn't have that grace, he needs to dodge WAY earlier and even then his Up-B doesn't snap unless it's a limit so... I guess just stay on the ground and don't try to gimp or else lose a stock with his DAir, or don't go too far out because he has like almost no recovery?

 

[Mekhal]

Cloud's run-off dair is definitely gonna get you killed because of his lacking recovery. Personally, I like a few different options for gimping off stage but if you really like dair and have good aim with it, your only way to recover is if you shorthop dair off the stage to do it, that'll be a bit less laggy for you but that also means you'll be trying to spike them when they're almost to ledge. If you wanna try some other good gimps as Cloud, he's actually got quite a few! Based off where you wanna gimp the enemy at, here's a couple I like using:
-Runoff side-b (good when enemy's almost at ledge)
- Dair on ledge (good for 2-framing)
- jumpoff nair (good when enemy's far out)

I'll edit this post if i can think of any more

 

[Kara]

Thanks for your reply! So I was actually testing something out and found that Climhazzard's downward thrust has a spike on it. Now that said, that doesn't help you much as you kill yourself doing it offstage unless you have Limit right? Well I wanted to keep testing this and see how I could make it work and accidentally found a gimp with it. Granted, it's ultra-short range and only affects people who are currently using an attacking Up-B or whatever to recover rather than an air-dodge.

So my findings show that if you do a standing Climhazzard onstage, you will launch up and down but you will 100% kill yourself unless their attack hits you and interrupts it. This is a guaranteed SD like when you use a walk-off DAir with Cloud and no Limit. However, I found that the downward thrust of Climhazzard actually has a ledge snap after a certain amount of time passes. It's hard to say when it has ledge snap, but it's definitely a thing.

After a bit more testing, I found a way to replicate it consistently and it's pretty simple. Just stand on the edge of the stage, like when you're on the edge and teetering over. Do a jump (a little more than a short hop; short hopping this won't make it snap) and use Climhazzard and it's downward spike. Do NOT make any directional inputs as going left will land you on the stage and open you up if you miss, or going right will move you away from the stage and you won't ledge snap, effectively killing you (and if you're lucky your opponent).

If done right, you will execute the full attack, and the hitbox will hit lower than your position meaning you can spike someone who is recovering. If you happen to miss the attack, you will grab the ledge and be able to recover on the stage "safely" depending on.. Well your opponent and how you handle fights from there on. Alternatively you will recover after they grab the ledge, forcing a ledge trump and kicking them off. Lastly, I've had an instance where a Link had been attacking and I spiked him but still took a hit from his Up-B. He still died from a spike from it, but it's worth noting this isn't a perfect technique.

Personally, I find this to be much safer than trying to gimp someone who has good air recovery offstage. It gives you a level of protection that if you don't get the gimp, you still have a bit of safety with the ledge grab. Also, it feels so good to swag on someone with it when you do hit them.

Edit: I suppose I should mention that this sort of covers a gimp for people who are trying to recover from below the stage where Cloud's DAir will normally either be too high due to a short hop, or get you killed because a walk off DAir will kill you in an SD. I guess it can cover people recovering from the air too, but I don't know. Try it out and let me know how it works out for you guys.

 

[richieboy326]

If you jump and then climb hazzard if you space it right you can snap the ledge and hit the spike. You can also go to do a rar off stage and try it because when youre facing the stage he grabs it better, still working on getting that down.

 

[Firox]

If you jump and then climb hazzard if you space it right you can snap the ledge and hit the spike. You can also go to do a rar off stage and try it because when youre facing the stage he grabs it better, still working on getting that down.

So far the RAR bair off stage is the best gimp I've found. The only downside is that it's most only safe to use against characters that are recovering horizontally. If they're coming from directly below the stage, you could try a run-off bair toward the stage and hope to rebound them but it's much more risky.

 

[richieboy326]

Forward air is fun if you connect it right they right down, if you get a climbhazard off stage at low mid % it kinda puts them in just the right spot. Run off cross slash works. The dair is hard works nice on Links, finally getting the hang of it and not killing myself.

 

[krazyzyko]

You actually CAN run off dair and make it back without using limit nor wal jump. All yiu gotta do is run off dair ASAP, buffer jump(hold the jump button during dair endlag) and then reverse up b to the edge at the apex of your double jump.

Although shffl dair in stage and T-spike are more reliable but that only covers 2 frames.