Is the combo counter in training reliable in this game?

[Ulevo]

I currently don't have anyone to test this right now, and playing without a GC controller sucks, but I am seeing combo opportunities that seem inescapable but the combo counter is telling me otherwise. i.e. Mario's Utilt chain won't register until a much higher %. Is this thing lying to me? Can someone confirm?

 

[dragontamer]

Little Mac (2-frame Nair) and Pikachu (3-frame NAIR) can escape the mario up-tilt combo.

So yes, the combo thing is somewhat reliable. Somewhat, because some combos in training mode aren't true combos due to DI.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's really finicky. Some combos can be broken by really fast moves, but it won't actually take into account if that character has any. And some stunning and holding moves registers a combo even though it can be broken, namely egg lay. This has been the case since SSB64, however.

 

[Lavani]

Grab release stuff is kind of weird and tends to count whatever you did during the grab as a combo into whatever you do next even though grab release combos don't exist in this game.

Luigi's sourspot upB also just counts as a true combo into going to make a sandwich then coming back and sourspotting upB again.

Aside from that, it's pretty accurate.

 

[Gawain]

I have some info on this. All it measures is hard hitstun, pummels, and attacks that happen extraordinarly close to each other (so rapid jabs). While Mario's downthrow into utilt is guaranteed at least once, it doesn't register this for two reasons: the first is that the game doesn't count "light" hitstun as part of a combo except it seems in certain cases (like jabs). The second reason is that it doesn't count the very very short period of vulnerability after hitstun ends before you are able to effectively escape (so the very first few frames of an airdodge/spot dodge/roll or the frames before an aerial's hitbox comes out).

So generally speaking there are a couple of frames after the combo starter stops counting in which you could still land an attack (though this depends on who you are hitting because some characters have extraordinarly fast nairs like Ness and Yoshi)

EDIT: I should also say that the combo counter doesn't count grab confirming as a combo. So while if you hit someone with the first hit of Falcon's nair and then grab them, it is impossible to escape if spaced properly, the grab resets the combo counter. This counts in every grab confirm situation (Falcon's bair, Palutena's jab, etc)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

From what I can gather, it's not reliable.

Only from experience and experimenting will people learn what is legit or not.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Mario Utilt stuff, especially Dthrow -> Utilt, is actually escapable at low percents. His combo game is very mid%-based.

To add some info to what has already been stated, there are a few examples where the Combo Counter counts combos where they are not. For example, if you use Luigi's Ice Ball you'll find that you can hit your opponent long after they break out of freeze (and the short period of lag that follows) and the game will still register it is a combo for some reason. Similarly, a while back it was thought that Yoshi had an infinite revolving around repeatedly Egg Laying someone because the Combo Counter kept registering every consecutive Egg Lay as part of a combo. It was escapable.

It seems fairly reliable to me but it certainly has its quirks that need to be kept in mind.

 

[Tristan_win]

@ Gawain sum it up perfectly

I think training mode is good if you want to see if something is somewhat possible but DI testing is necessary if you want to see if it's a true inescapable combo.

 

[Roukiske]

Oh god no it is not and I am sad for that. At certain percents it said late down air -> knee is a combo. After testing it with a friend, it most certainly is not. While I don't think he was able to jump out of the "combo" he was able to airdodge before the hit.

 

[Big O]

From what I can tell, the combo meter is largely accurate in terms of telling you how many hits they received while in hitstun. However, there are a few oddball moves that essentially break the combo counter like cape, pitfall/burial moves, etc. by tricking it into thinking they are in infinite hitstun or something. That said, there is always the possibility of DI/SDI making combos harder/impossible too.

Your example leads me to believe that what you did was more along the lines of an inescapable string than an actual combo. Even though their hitstun wears off, few characters have the tools to avoid/punish incoming attacks in under 3 frames from the air. Strings with like ~1-3 frame gaps of no hitstun between moves also have the potential to eat double jumps and such, crippling their recovery/landing options.

 

[Roukiske]

From what I can tell, the combo meter is largely accurate in terms of telling you how many hits they received while in hitstun. However, there are a few oddball moves that essentially break the combo counter like cape, pitfall/burial moves, etc. by tricking it into thinking they are in infinite hitstun or something. That said, there is always the possibility of DI/SDI making combos harder/impossible too.

Your example leads me to believe that what you did was more along the lines of an inescapable string than an actual combo. Even though their hitstun wears off, few characters have the tools to avoid/punish incoming attacks in under 3 frames from the air. Strings with like ~1-3 frame gaps of no hitstun between moves also have the potential to eat double jumps and such, crippling their recovery/landing options.

Wait do airdodges have a 1-3 frame startup? If that's true I didn't know that, I thought it was instant. I haven't tested, but air dodging seems similar to Brawl where near the end of your hitstun you can air dodge before being able to jump.

Does anyone know if in this game the moment you can airdodge is the same as the moment you can jump? I think in melee you can jump before you're able to airdodge because of the tumbling you do in the air, but I could be wrong.

 

[Big O]

Wait do airdodges have a 1-3 frame startup? If that's true I didn't know that, I thought it was instant. I haven't tested, but air dodging seems similar to Brawl where near the end of your hitstun you can air dodge before being able to jump.

Does anyone know if in this game the moment you can airdodge is the same as the moment you can jump? I think in melee you can jump before you're able to airdodge because of the tumbling you do in the air, but I could be wrong.

Yeah air dodging has startup frames before you are invincible. I'd say most air dodges are invincible frame 4. I wouldn't be surprised if some characters are invincible as early as frame 2 or 3.

As far as I know, the moment you can air dodge is the same as the moment you can jump/attack/special.

 

[Gawain]

Wait do airdodges have a 1-3 frame startup? If that's true I didn't know that, I thought it was instant. I haven't tested, but air dodging seems similar to Brawl where near the end of your hitstun you can air dodge before being able to jump.

Does anyone know if in this game the moment you can airdodge is the same as the moment you can jump? I think in melee you can jump before you're able to airdodge because of the tumbling you do in the air, but I could be wrong.

There is no set timer on air dodges in this game. You can't air dodge out of hitstun