Is Smash 4 Still the most fair game?

[Artmastercorey]

I was wondering now that the game has been patched many times since its release. Do you still feel like smash 4 is the most fair game of all the smash series? Its strange because I know people who sorta feel its less fair than past titles, (harder to punish people for their mistakes depending on character ect) and it made me wonder if the competitive smash community feels the same way?

 

[Raijinken]

Can't speak for everyone, but the game still seems impressively well-balanced across all skill levels.

 

[DunnoBro]

I think "most forgiving" is more accurate than "most fair" though I don't necessarily disagree.

 

[Pazzo.]

'Fair' is a strange term to discuss, but SSB4 is very well balanced so far.

Thankfully, it has the unique opportunity of becoming even more balanced as it gets older!

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

I'd say it is balanced better than the others due to it being the first one being able to be patched (not including PM)

I wouldn't go as far to say that it is the most fair, because the amount of Sheik players is pretty much the same amount of Fox players in Melee and anyone that gets anywhere is usually a Sheik player in Sm4sh while the same can be said about Fox for Melee

 

[Axel311]

Other than I think the high tiers are pretty balanced at this point. are all pretty darn close in terms of viability. That's awesome.

Still lots of work to do on the mid and low tiers. Although they aren't near as far away from the high tiers as they were in other games. Most of the mid tiers are still tourney viable. There's really only 15 or so characters that aren't tourney viable. Most of the mid tiers are, it's just playing you're in hard mode.

Would like to see better ways for heavies to deal with camping, and better ways for zoners to deal with rushdown characters. I hate that the top tiers are basically all rushdown, combo types. We have seen heavies and zoners once again take a back seat in a smash game, I want to see this resolved.

 

[Conda]

Id rather not see the resurgence of zoner types. They stomp new players and non tourney players, and that seems fine. Or else the game really would dip in enjoyment.

 

[Wintropy]

There's a decidedly narrower distance between tiers in this game, which is good. Every character feels viable to some extent.

 

[Joeyd123]

Other than I think the high tiers are pretty balanced at this point. are all pretty darn close in terms of viability. That's awesome.

Still lots of work to do on the mid and low tiers. Although they aren't near as far away from the high tiers as they were in other games. Most of the mid tiers are still tourney viable. There's really only 15 or so characters that aren't tourney viable. Most of the mid tiers are, it's just playing you're in hard mode.

Would like to see better ways for heavies to deal with camping, and better ways for zoners to deal with rushdown characters. I hate that the top tiers are basically all rushdown, combo types. We have seen heavies and zoners once again take a back seat in a smash game, I want to see this resolved.

Having all the top tiers be rushdown, combo characters is good for the game. Its more fun as a player and more fun to watch. I would like to see more heavies, but zoning/camping characters are better as low and mid tiers

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Having all the top tiers be rushdown, combo characters is good for the game. Its more fun as a player and more fun to watch. I would like to see more heavies, but zoning/camping characters are better as low and mid tiers

It gets kind of boring watching what has pretty much become the same "grand" finals every tournament, AKA Sheik player versus ZSS player

 

[Joeyd123]

It gets kind of boring watching what has pretty much become the same "grand" finals every tournament, AKA Sheik player versus ZSS player

Its sounds more like you are tired of ZeRo and Nairo being in every grand finals. Yes there are a lot of Sheiks, but who besides Nairo places with ZSS?

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Its sounds more like you are tired of ZeRo and Nairo being in every grand finals. Yes there are a lot of Sheiks, but who besides Nairo places with ZSS?

I guess I should change it to Sheik player versus other Sheik player

 

[Axel311]

Having all the top tiers be rushdown, combo characters is good for the game. Its more fun as a player and more fun to watch. I would like to see more heavies, but zoning/camping characters are better as low and mid tiers

That's complete opinion and I disagree completely. People go crazy when abadango pulls out or. He probably gets more fan excitement than anyone at big events. Neither of those are rushdown, combo types. Fans also love to watch dkwill's and Nairo's just to name a few. I know I personally love watching non-rushdown characters more. I really enjoy matches with also, who are often played at big events.

Also I personally just don't like playing rushdown types. I prefer defensive types and heavies, and I hate that I feel forced to main a rushdown type to do my best at smash tourneys. I wish there were more defensive/zoning types in the top tiers.

 

[Kaladin]

It is easily the most F-air game. I mean, look at !

/thread.

 

[Magik0722]

64 was the most fair game.

 

[LancerStaff]

Most fair Smash? I'd say so.

Mechanically, the game is pretty clear about how it works. There isn't anything important that'd require more then a minute or two to get the hang of.

Balance wise, it's pretty reasonable for what the game is. Yeah, we have some outliers () and some really oppressive characters () but there's always balance patches to look forward to.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

That's complete opinion and I disagree completely. People go crazy when abadango pulls out or. He probably gets more fan excitement than anyone at big events. Neither of those are rushdown, combo types. Fans also love to watch dkwill's and Nairo's just to name a few. I know I personally love watching non-rushdown characters more. I really enjoy matches with also, who are often played at big events.

Also I personally just don't like playing rushdown types. I prefer defensive types and heavies, and I hate that I feel forced to main a rushdown type to do my best at smash tourneys. I wish there were more defensive/zoning types in the top tiers.

This. It pisses me off greatly to see players think that only one playstyle is acceptable. A game only about rushdown will get boring and die fast as it gets churned out.

 

[Joeyd123]

This. It pisses me off greatly to see players think that only one playstyle is acceptable. A game only about rushdown will get boring and die fast as it gets churned out.

Yes a game with only rushdowns will die. That is why Melee died. Oh wait, no it didn't.

 

[Joeyd123]

That's complete opinion and I disagree completely. People go crazy when abadango pulls out or. He probably gets more fan excitement than anyone at big events. Neither of those are rushdown, combo types. Fans also love to watch dkwill's and Nairo's just to name a few. I know I personally love watching non-rushdown characters more. I really enjoy matches with also, who are often played at big events.

Also I personally just don't like playing rushdown types. I prefer defensive types and heavies, and I hate that I feel forced to main a rushdown type to do my best at smash tourneys. I wish there were more defensive/zoning types in the top tiers.

People enjoy seeing this characters because they are so rare. If more people used these characters they wouldn't be as hype as they are . With the exception of DK and maybe Wario.

 

[outfoxd]

Kinda unfortunate that people not only don't like people playing zoners, they feel they should be inherently worse because of it.

 

[TurboLink]

Kinda unfortunate that people not only don't like people playing zoners, they feel they should be inherently worse because of it.

Who feels that they should be worse?

And no, I do not think Smash 4 is the most fair.

 

[DunnoBro]

I guess I should change it to Sheik player versus other Sheik player

Double sheik GFs are pretty rare. Wayyyy rarer than fox dittos. Sm4sh sheik has nowhere near the representation of fox in melee. At least not yet.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Double sheik GFs are pretty rare. Wayyyy rarer than fox dittos. Sm4sh sheik has nowhere near the representation of fox in melee. At least not yet.

yeah, Melee has been around for much longer and the tiers are pretty well established. Also Fox dittos are way more common because ZeRo doesn't like to play Sheik against another Sheik, so that's probably a contributing factor as to why GFs don't have them.

 

[Joeyd123]

yeah, Melee has been around for much longer and the tiers are pretty well established. Also Fox dittos are way more common because ZeRo doesn't like to play Sheik against another Sheik, so that's probably a contributing factor as to why GFs don't have them.

But also thre are really not that many top players who main Sheik. There is ZeRo but he also uses Diddy and even used Roy at Smash Con. Then Mr R and he is using more Meta Knight too. And then Vinnie, but him and all the other Sheik players really aren't a threat to any of the best players.

 

[DunnoBro]

yeah, Melee has been around for much longer and the tiers are pretty well established. Also Fox dittos are way more common because ZeRo doesn't like to play Sheik against another Sheik, so that's probably a contributing factor as to why GFs don't have them.

Yea no fox dittos are more common because the character is just way more represented.

ZeRo isn't in every tournament ever, and sheik dittos still rarely happen. There just isn't anywhere near the same representation lmao

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Yes a game with only rushdowns will die. That is why Melee died. Oh wait, no it didn't.

Oh wait, peach exist, Marth exist, jigglypuff exist, and Samus exist.
And no, they don't all rushdown, they play positional.
EDIT: heck, not all players rushdown. Armada is a notable player as well as Hbox. Please know the game you're talking about.

 

[David Viran]

This. It pisses me off greatly to see players think that only one playstyle is acceptable. A game only about rushdown will get boring and die fast as it gets churned out.

Zss isn't pure rushdown lol that's just how nairo likes to play.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Zss isn't pure rushdown lol that's just how nairo likes to play.

She probably isn't (I don't play her you do, so you know more Obvously), but she's a brawler and all brawlers share a similar sweetspot which is close and personal. There's a reason why some think the top tiers in smash 4 are homogenized.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Sm4sh is totally fair fair fair fair fair...

 

[LightLV]

This game? Fair?

Uh, in what sense of the word?

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I believe it is; aside from Sheik, no character has a huge advantage. Obviously there are obvious advantages of some above others, but it's no longer the gap from Melee and Brawl, and skill also plays a big part (come on, despite being much smaller than Melee/64, the game's skill gap is much bigger than before.). I still think the defensive options are slightly stronger, but they are starting to be outpaced by the offensive options, so it's no longer that issue.
Edit: Also, balance patches.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

shiek isn't that bad, she has been consistently nerfed with every patch so far and this is sure to continue until things balance out.

 

[Dsull]

It is the most balanced of the 4, even before the patches came out to make it better than release.
Theres still some issues but every game has those characters that are just too strong for how easy they are to use (rosalina...) but theres none anywhere near as bad as Brawl's Metaknight and the number of completely useless characters is basically 0 compared to how big the roster is. Shiek is another glaring issue but at least you have to have SOME knowledge of the character to own with her.

Only thing about sm4sh mechanics that tick me off is how easy it is to roll/dodge. Campy gameplay is a bit too rewarding since the lag between rolls is so small its like 1-2 frame gap in some cases to hit them before they can roll again.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

How do you define "fair"? If you mean most balanced, 64 is probably the most balanced game. This is mainly due to the fact that it has the fewest number of characters, but it's still true. If you mean that it gives less experienced players a better chance, I would disagree with that, but I would say that it is easier to reach at least mid level play in Smash 4 than in other Smash games because of the lack of vital ATs.

 

[wizrad]

No. Look at Sheik. Best character in the game by a f-air margin. Tools for everything. Now look at Samus. Just… Samus. Look at her. Now look back at Sheik. Now back at Samus. Back at Sheik. Now Samus. Now look at me. Do you understand? 64 is considerably more well balanced.

If customs are on, however…

 

[Sonic94]

It's boring honestly. All that seems to matter in the end is having better timing and reaction time.

I used to love learning how to destroy different charaters in brawl. Weather it was an infinite chain grab or not having an answer to edge-hogging. There always seemed to be a way that I could win through knowledge and strategy.

But now in smash 4 it feels like it's all up to improving your reaction time by playing the game constantly, and that gets old fast.

 

[Sonic94]

No. Look at Sheik. Best character in the game by a f-air margin. Tools for everything. Now look at Samus. Just… Samus. Look at her. Now look back at Sheik. Now back at Samus. Back at Sheik. Now Samus. Now look at me. Do you understand? 64 is considerably more well balanced.

If customs are on, however…

Smash 4 samus is very underated.
1 she has a combo: da < uair < ub does 40 ish damege.
2 her b move can kill people who are landing and can kill very early when used on a recovering opponent.
3 her bair is strong, fast, and has reach.
4 she can spike
5 sweetspoted fsmash has a ton of range and killing power
6 dsmash is reliable and fast
8 zair is great for getting people out of your way. Especially someone trying to edge guard you.
9 she can mix up her projectiles to make it very hard to predict and sheild them.
10 she is VERY good at edge guarding. Whith her projectiles. Her ranged airiels. Her angled fsmash and and down smash both kill very early when you hit somone on the ledge. Plus dair is a good spike.
11 she is heavy so you have to do more damage to her then she does to you unless you are also heavy. If you are heavy she can just out camp you anyway.
12 her grab is ranged so she can sheild grab very strong attacks.

Honestly she is ATLEAST mid tier.

 

[LancerStaff]

No. Look at Sheik. Best character in the game by a f-air margin. Tools for everything. Now look at Samus. Just… Samus. Look at her. Now look back at Sheik. Now back at Samus. Back at Sheik. Now Samus. Now look at me. Do you understand? 64 is considerably more well balanced.

If customs are on, however…

Samus isn't trash... That'd be Mewtwo. Who, yaknow, doesn't have any customs.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Samus isn't trash... That'd be Mewtwo. Who, yaknow, doesn't have any customs.

I think they'e both equally trash, customs or not

Samus's customs are things like:

• Melee Charge Shot, a charge shot worse in every single way but charge time
• Dense Charge Shot, basically that move Lucario had from PM, but way weaker, only really useful for edgeguarding which non-custom charge shot also does
• Relentless Missile, way slower and even do less damage
• Turbo Missile, doesn't get out fast enough to do enough and can be punished pretty easily due to the lack of startup speed
• I don't really have anything to say about either custom screw attacks
• Trip Bomb is fine I guess
• Mega Bomb is like dropping one of Link's bombs and expecting someone to walk over and wait for it, it's so useless

Just because Mewtwo doesn't have customs doesn't mean he is worse than Samus

 

[LancerStaff]

I think they'e both equally trash, customs or not

Samus's customs are things like:

• Melee Charge Shot, a charge shot worse in every single way but charge time
• Dense Charge Shot, basically that move Lucario had from PM, but way weaker, only really useful for edgeguarding which non-custom charge shot also does
• Relentless Missile, way slower and even do less damage
• Turbo Missile, doesn't get out fast enough to do enough and can be punished pretty easily due to the lack of startup speed
• I don't really have anything to say about either custom screw attacks
• Trip Bomb is fine I guess
• Mega Bomb is like dropping one of Link's bombs and expecting someone to walk over and wait for it, it's so useless

Just because Mewtwo doesn't have customs doesn't mean he is worse than Samus

Samus needs Dense Charge Shot and Relentless Missile together to really shine in customs... Since they're so slow, they're much better at trapping and dealing with the offensive focused top tiers.