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Is Psychology a load of BS?

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So, is Psychology bull****? Or is it a science? And by science, I mean hard science.

Wikipedia said:
Hard science is a term used to describe certain fields of the natural sciences or physical sciences that are perceived to be more accurate than other sciences like the social sciences.[citation needed] The hard sciences usually rely on experimental, empirical, quantifiable data or the scientific method and focus on accuracy and objectivity.
Chemistry is an example of "hard" science

Conversely, a "soft" science is...

Wikipedia said:
Soft science is a colloquial term, often used for academic research or scholarship which is purportedly "scientific" however it is not based on reproducible experimental data, and/or a mathematical explanation of that data. The term is usually used as a contrast to hard science.
Chemistry is not a "soft" science. But what is? Is psychology a soft or hard science?

Wikipedia said:
The social sciences,[1] in studying subjective, inter-subjective and objective or structural aspects of society, are traditionally referred to as soft sciences. This is in contrast to hard sciences, such as the natural sciences, which may focus exclusively on objective aspects of nature. Nowadays, however, according to proponents of this view, the distinction between the hard sciences and many of the so-called soft sciences is blurred.

Okay. So is Psychology soft or hard? I chose psychology because it seems to be the most controversial topic of the main three "social sciences": Anthro, Socio, Psych.

Let me hit you with a fact:

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or the DSM, currently lists "sibling rivalry" as a mental illness.
http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/ said:
Is the DSM becoming more or less reasonable as time passes? Decide for yourself. Here is a list of years and the number of conditions identified as “mental illnesses” in the DSM for that year:

Year Number of conditions
1952 112
1968 163
1980 224
1987 253
1994 374
I googled this thread's name and I got this link, and this video:


http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=158397#1894172

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KZtcy4LltY

Check the comments. There's some debate to be had here.

So what is it?

I edited the title to rile some emotions.

Joker from Ilovephilosophy.com - Why psychology is bull**** said:
It prescribes an ought from an is.
It describes a right and wrong without substantiating it's moral civic determinism.
It is a mass conforming system of complacency utilized by the government.
It describes a right way of living when no such thing exists.
 

adumbrodeus

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A lot of people misunderstand what psychology is, hence the reason that this debate crops up.



In terms of individual psychology, a person is unpredictable. However, people are predictable. Poke one person with a stick and you can't know their reaction, poke 10,000 people and you'll get reproducible statistics on their reactions (assuming proper sampling and such).

This applies for all the social sciences, not one of them can ever predict tiny events with perfect accuracy, this is not what they are designed to do. They are all built however, to use large amounts of samples in order to produce enough data to ultimately be accurate.

Sociology uses the data in a predictive manner in relation to stimuli (though certain schools are more empirical then others, some, I believe, fall into fuzzy science), anthropology uses it to understand why certain events occurred (commonalities among events and reactions, there are plenty of societies to study), and psychology uses the mass of data obtained from massive amounts of studies to pinpoint the psychological attributes (again, established through studies achieved through the scientific method) of a person so as to ultimately treat him or her, it's just in this case, every outcome is important.


So yes, all the social sciences use the scientific method, and what differentiates the social sciences from other science is this, the difficulty in isolating factors, making it far more difficult to create a true x causes y relationship. Yet this does not stop the disciplines from being based upon the scientific method and all that is good and true in science, it just makes it that much harder to pin down absolute laws.
 
D

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In terms of individual psychology, a person is unpredictable. However, people are predictable. Poke one person with a stick and you can't know their reaction, poke 10,000 people and you'll get reproducible statistics on their reactions (assuming proper sampling and such).
But this is also a problem. This leads to getting an "ought" from an "is". Here's an example.

More and more people are traveling with airplanes. Therefore, we ought to have more airports.

Well, no, we don't. They're hard on the environment and take up a lot of space, and we have a lot of airports already.

This is what psychology does. Sometimes it's different.



"8,000 out of 10,000 people who were poked flinched. Therefore, the other 2,000 are clearly wired different mentally."

That may be seem a little extreme, but it's an analogy.


So yes, all the social sciences use the scientific method, and what differentiates the social sciences from other science is this, the difficulty in isolating factors, making it far more difficult to create a true x causes y relationship. Yet this does not stop the disciplines from being based upon the scientific method and all that is good and true in science, it just makes it that much harder to pin down absolute laws.
I think the true x causes y relationships are what defines a science.

Facts in psychology are based off of larges groups of people, and you have to assume that they are giving you a proper reading.

This leads me to state that it's more a philosophy than a science.
 

adumbrodeus

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But this is also a problem. This leads to getting an "ought" from an "is". Here's an example.

More and more people are traveling with airplanes. Therefore, we ought to have more airports.

Well, no, we don't. They're hard on the environment and take up a lot of space, and we have a lot of airports already.

This is what psychology does. Sometimes it's different.



"8,000 out of 10,000 people who were poked flinched. Therefore, the other 2,000 are clearly wired different mentally."

That may be seem a little extreme, but it's an analogy.
That's fallicious logic mon ami.

Different is not equivalent to bad in psychology or any other field, it is merely different. Sure, it can be interpreted that way by people, but do you purpose that we ignor that 1/5 of the population was wired differently mentally because some people might decide that it meant that it's bad?

Science is the study of reality as it is, it does not conform to your preconceptions of what's bad or good.


As for psychological treatment (since I know you'll bring this up), like anything else it's the person who goes to the doctor saying, "I want this treated", the psychologist does not decide for the person what is good or bad, he or she merely helps a person get rid of the issues that this person wishes to get rid of. In the same way an M.D. cannot treat a person who has been stabbed through the heart if they say, "you know, I really like my stab wound, don't treat it".

The psychologist does not decide what is good or bad, he or she knows what the majority does not want (as it is part of their job), but it is the patient who decides how things ought to be.

Psychology is about what is (including how to change what is), not what ought to be.


I think the true x causes y relationships are what defines a science.

Facts in psychology are based off of larges groups of people, and you have to assume that they are giving you a proper reading.

This leads me to state that it's more a philosophy than a science.
Did I say that there weren't x causes y relationships?

No, I said they were more difficult to obtain, x causes y relationships are indeed at the core of psychology.

However since the methodology is indirect, it's far more difficult to obtain the exact relationship, therebye requiring more time and energy to obtain.


As for the validity of the data, there is no assumption of proper readings, there is a complicated calculus based process by which the data is verified, with the null hypothesis being no relationship. If you ever take a statistics class you will see exactly what the standards are for verifying data, and the vast majority of studies are tossed out as having insignificant results (in essence, while there seemed to be a relationship, there was not enough of a correlation within the data to prove it).'

From there, the process generally gets more complex, however controlling for variables until you have only one variable that could be effecting both groups works, or you could have another branch of science directly verify the relationship if possible.

But psychology can ultimately isolate causation.






I would like to add that I am essentially responding to your topic title, however, psychology is based on reproducible experimental data, a valid psychology experiment can always be repeated (and by experiment I mean study, of any of the varieties). Your issue should be with anthropology and sociology because both depend on a series of natural experiments, and it isn't really feasible to create civilizations for study.

That said, the thing I disagree with most is your unquantified lumping of so-called "soft science" as BS. If you consider soft science (as you previously defined) BS, then justify such an assertion.
 

FireWater

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Speaking as a student of counseling, I will share my perspective on this subject.

"Is Psychology a load of BS?" my answer is "Not all of it".

There are some psychological theories and practices that can be both dangerous, stupid, and actually can contribute to one's own mental health problems.

I do believe that as a science, it is a Soft Science, as most research is correlational. The human mind is getting easier to study, but for every door that is opened, 100s more are revealed that need to be opened.

Because psychology is a soft science, many people have a tendency to dismiss it a waste of time, or a load of BS. I do not agree with this sort of logic.

All of the studies are meant to shed some understanding of the human mind, without psychology we would have no knowledge of the etiologies (origins) pathogenesis (course) or lists of the disorders. Without a label, it is extremely difficult to treat someone who clearly has a psychological problem. If it were not researched as extensively as it is, it would be impossible to treat an individual with depression/anxiety issues, as well as more serious disorders such as Schizophrenia.

That being said, there are some therapies (like Gestalt) for example that have terrible practices that can cause more damage then good. For example, one Gestalt psychologist came up with "Honesty Therapy" for couples. The goal of the therapy is to say exactly what you are feeling about the person you are in a relationship with. No filters, no blocks, say exactly what you want. After watching a video of what happened, I have no idea how this Ph.D can ethically practice this sort of therapy and not get in trouble with the board.

I do not believe that psychology is a waste (obviously) but I do believe that some practices and research can be bogus.
 

halfDemon

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I think adumbrodeus has got this one.

The scientific method is used in psychology. Predictable statistics are given. And results can be repeated. This is exactly what a science is.

Group results are always the ones that matter and are studied. Yes one person may not flinch, but the other 900 may. So, in general, people flinching is normal and he is the odd man out. Just like one plant may not recieve benefits from mineral A, but the other 500 do. So, in general, mineral A is helpful to those plants, and that one plant is the weird one.

Also, individual psychology is very difficult because of environmental effects and changes. Just like any other hard science, everything must be controlled to get the predicited results, and in individual psychology it's just too hard to do that.

But psychology as a whole is a "hard science".
 

adumbrodeus

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But psychology as a whole is a "hard science".
Well, psychology isn't a "hard science", because "hard science" is defined as not including psychology.

The real issue is that "hard science" vs. "soft science" is meaningless, because both use the same type of methodology, are very grounded in Math, and ultimately look to define causality. The only real difference between the two categories is that somebody decided based on "common sense" to call some stuff "hard science" and some stuff "soft science".


Granted, there are some things that people generally consider part of the fields of psychology, sociology, and anthropology which don't really utilize the scientific method, but that doesn't make the entire field less scientific, it makes those areas not science period, and they must be accounted for separately from those portions of the field that strictly adhere to the scientific method.

Thus, while psychology is a "soft science", "soft science", while less important then "hard science" is ultimately a meaningless term, arbitrarily applied, and whether psychology falls under that category has nothing whatsoever to do with if it's valid or not (or as the thread creator put it, whether psychology is a load of B.S. or not).



P.S. After you responded to the previous posts on this thread, I find it rather amusing that you even considered the possibility that the same individual is responsible for both those posts and the abhorations that appeared under my name in the Marth support thread.
 
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