Is Ness OP?

[The Wumbologist]

I main Ness but I'm starting to seriously think of switching to a different character. For example his side B is ridiculous in PM and even activates on shield which makes me feel super nooby when I land it. What are y'all's opinions over this, and if I should switch, who should I switch to and why?

 

[choknater]

if something is good, you should abuse it in order to win.

but if it doesn't feel satisfying or fun to do so, i could see why someone would switch.

even after all this metagame development, with mewtwo/pit/snake really rising to the top, i still do believe ness is OP

LOL

i might be the only Yes vote though

 

[Bryonato]

redacted, I was being a wiener

EDIT: that said, I think Ness is in a good place atm. I don't think he's top 10 but he's definitely top 15.

Good balance of strengths and weaknesses

 

[choknater]

the dude is new

legit question imo

welcome to smashboards wumbo

 

[Bryonato]

hey i'm not a wumbo

 

[FreeGamer]

Ness is anything but OP. Are you sure you're playing the same game as I am?

 

[waifumagnet]

Ness is most certainly not OP. Side-b can be hella busted but anyone can get out of it with relative ease if you've got the know-how. I think Ness is fun with a bunch of fun little tricks but he is definitely far from OP. He can get gimped really easily if you hit him out of his double jump. Even though his moves have some priority, he can get outranged in the air by sword people, Ivysaur, Shiek. Ivysaur's probably one of the worst matchups for Ness because Ivy can just b-air Ness all the time and there's not too much Ness can do about it.

Ness is a dumb matchup for heavies but he's definitely not OP.

 

[waifumagnet]

Also, you don't need to switch. Side-b is pretty sweet for tech chasing and setups but you need to follow up really well with it. I wouldn't recommend switching unless you felt like you weren't getting anywhere with your play but if your only reason for switching is because you think PK Fire is busted, I'd say don't because it's really not all that busted lol. It's really easy to SDI.

 

[Zujx]

The problem isnt the side b
the problem is your friends are bad
ness isnt op at all

That's pretty much the end of the story

 

[SpaceJello]

Ness op? That's something I've never heard before. Most will probably disagree with me but I think ness bottom mid tier when it comes to high level play. If anything I'd switch characters if you're planning on getting good

 

[QuickRat]

He's recovery is pretty bad, so he is not. But it's troo that if you're a Brawl-Ness mainer (as I am), switching to Project M makes you feel extremely powerful. But I don't think Ness is overpowered, I'd say he was awful in Brawl and now he is a very good option for a matchup.

 

[The Wumbologist]

He's recovery is pretty bad, so he is not. But it's troo that if you're a Brawl-Ness mainer (as I am), switching to Project M makes you feel extremely powerful. But I don't think Ness is overpowered, I'd say he was awful in Brawl and now he is a very good option for a matchup.

Ah, that must be why, thanks

 

[Akhenderson]

I honestly don't understand why people continuously say his recovery is bad. It's in fact, one of the better recoveries in the game because of it's low landing lag, speed, distance and killing ability, making it similar to Fire Fox but with a different way of blasting yourself towards the platforms with a significant increase in power.

His killing potential, ability to survive high percentages fairly easily, ability to chip away at the opponent with spacing tools like fair and PK Fire AS WELL AS a very good punish game is enough to make him a formidable foe, but is hindered by his lack of decently ranged moves.

 

[BioZelink]

I honestly don't understand why people continuously say his recovery is bad. It's in fact, one of the better recoveries in the game because of it's low landing lag, speed, distance and killing ability, making it similar to Fire Fox but with a different way of blasting yourself towards the platforms with a significant increase in power.

His killing potential, ability to survive high percentages fairly easily, ability to chip away at the opponent with spacing tools like fair and PK Fire AS WELL AS a very good punish game is enough to make him a formidable foe, but is hindered by his lack of decently ranged moves.

Because of the time he just stays in mid air until he hits himself, you can easily hit him out of it, or even taking the thunder will stop him from recovering. Also it is hard to angle correctly/

 

[smashbroskilla]

Because of the time he just stays in mid air until he hits himself, you can easily hit him out of it, or even taking the thunder will stop him from recovering. Also it is hard to angle correctly/

it isn't hard with practice. go ahead and jump off the ledge and try and interrupt it. a well played ness knows the exact distance and you might die too.

 

[BioZelink]

it isn't hard with practice. go ahead and jump off the ledge and try and interrupt it. a well played ness knows the exact distance and you might die too.

A well played fox will shine him with ease. Marth will fair or spike him, Sheik will bair or fair. A recovery that just leaves you standing out there is bad no matter what. He is a great character, and i love him, but there's no point in denying the truth.

 

[Mera Mera]

A well played fox will shine him with ease. Marth will fair or spike him, Sheik will bair or fair. A recovery that just leaves you standing out there is bad no matter what. He is a great character, and i love him, but there's no point in denying the truth.

I'm pretty sure he's invincible for some of PKT2... not sure if it's the whole time. So if he recovers from far away, this might only be possible to deal with if you're character can go far off (mine can but the matchup for Zard is not good).

I doubt Ness is OP. I don't think that's end of discussion though. You can have bad design without being OP. E.G. I think Ganon's d-throw (and many other d-throws) are bad design, but Ganon himself is a fairly weak character match up spread-wise. I don't know much about Ness so I can't comment on whether or not he's well designed. I will say that I love the aerial momentum stuff with his down b and I super hope it's useful cause it's damn cool.

 

[Bryonato]

Because of the time he just stays in mid air until he hits himself, you can easily hit him out of it, or even taking the thunder will stop him from recovering. Also it is hard to angle correctly/

I disagree with basically anything said about Ness' recovery being bad. Lets look at all it's traits:

1. Hitbox around Ness' body right when pkt comes out
2. Invincibility for 7 frames right when pkt hits
3. all the angles that fox upb has/ ability to sweetspot from nearly anywhere
4. HUGE distance. With good DI ness rarely dies off the side
5. Auto cancels when you hit the ground
6. pkt goes neutral when you are hit out of it, very commonly hitting you after someone hits you out of it

Like, you can't look at that list and tell me that's bad. If you're getting hit out of pkt all the time then you might want to reevaluate your positioning when you're using it

 

[smashbroskilla]

A well played fox will shine him with ease. Marth will fair or spike him, Sheik will bair or fair. A recovery that just leaves you standing out there is bad no matter what. He is a great character, and i love him, but there's no point in denying the truth.

you grab the ledge you don't leave yourself sitting there.

 

[BioZelink]

I disagree with basically anything said about Ness' recovery being bad. Lets look at all it's traits:

1. Hitbox around Ness' body right when pkt comes out
2. Invincibility for 7 frames right when pkt hits
3. all the angles that fox upb has/ ability to sweetspot from nearly anywhere
4. HUGE distance. With good DI ness rarely dies off the side
5. Auto cancels when you hit the ground
6. pkt goes neutral when you are hit out of it, very commonly hitting you after someone hits you out of it

Like, you can't look at that list and tell me that's bad. If you're getting hit out of pkt all the time then you might want to reevaluate your positioning when you're using it

You are a Ness main aren't you :D
It's not a bad recovery, it's just worse than the lot of the cast.

 

[Bryonato]

his recovery is arguably top 10

 

[Kink-Link5]

I like to think it isn't a bad recovery and then Peach tosses out a raw vegetable and I don't even have any ketchup packets to get a stat boost out of it.

 

[bts.mongoose]

His side b is definitely great in PM right now, since it's basically a free grab. Three side-bs, two followed up with down throws and the last followed up with a back throw is enough to KO most of the lighter characters. It's great for tech chasing as well. In addition to that, his aerials are pretty solid. Regardless, I wouldn't call him overpowered, as he's pretty light and it's pretty easy to gimp him if you get to him before he hits himself with a recovery up-b.