Is my unconventional playstyle really that absurd?

[BartholomewRR]

I approach the game in a very unusual way - I don't care to succeed beyond the local level, I don't enjoy watching competitive SSBM unless my mains are playing, and if an aspect of the game doesn't appeal to me, I simply ignore it.

This translates into a lot of unusual quirks in my playstyle. I don't L-Cancel, I don't FC, I don't CG, and I multi-main (Marth, Luigi, and Peach). I don't utilize any tech beyond WDing, WLing, SDing, and NILing. My play largely revolves around mind games, spacing, and movement.

This works well enough for me to perform as I wish - I mostly go head to head with my sparring partners, I win and/or place okay at locals, and I do well against good players. While I understand that I could likely improve drastically if I picked up the rest of the standard toolset, I'm content with the level at which I perform, and see no need to alter my playstyle beyond learning MUs, and whatever improvements come naturally. I'm just not invested enough in this scene to push further than that.

I didn't think that this would be that outrageous of an approach to take, and even figured that there must be others out there that share my view. However, every time I've discussed these things with other smashers - be it on /r/ssbm, SmashLadder, or Skype - I've consistently been accused of trolling and generally ridiculed. Most recently, I was kicked out of the Peach Skype group for supposedly not caring about the character. Keep in mind that I acknowledge the fact that my playstyle isn't optimal. In fact, I tend to specifically point out that my approach simply isn't viable if you're shooting for Arcadia+.

Note that I have never received this reaction from prominent players - people who are known to be good at the game tend to ask me questions as to how my typical games and match-ups play out, rather than telling me that I am delusional.

Occasionally, I am challenged to a quick match on Netplay to demonstrate how I play the game with these restrictions, and while I haven't always been victorious, I have yet to meet anyone who, after calling me out for being utter trash, destroyed me to any extent that would validate that claim.

I'm posting this thread in order to see whether my approach is really that absurd, or whether some of you share my view of the game. Even if you don't, I'd like to know what exactly makes my playstyle so controversial, and why the notion of someone not being overly invested in competitive SSBM is thought to be so outlandish.

 

[Plunder]

Who cares?

As in why do you care what others think? It obviously bothers you; you say that you get why they react that way, and yet you still ask why even though it's obvious you know the answer.

The way you play and the ambitions you've set out for yourself sort of tell it all. If you don't plan on using a character at the highest technical level or going beyond friendlies and locals then why enter into a skype group or any other place where those ideals are the sole purpose? It's fine to play the way you do, especially if it works for YOU. But it makes no sense to enter into conversations and places that are discussing things you don't implement or care to practice. Getting frustrated by their expected response doesn't make much sense to me, I'm sure if we saw the whole picture this would all be a bit clearer.

TL:DR If you are approaching the game from a softcore angle and ambition, why get involved in hardcore aspects like skype groups, scouring reddit, and other forums? Wouldn't it make more sense just to avoid those things or just be an observer?

 

[EPsilon933]

I'm a casual gamer who plays a competitive game

Hi, twin

 

[BartholomewRR]

As in why do you care what others think?

I didn't, at least not until now - but it's taking a toll on what parts of the community I have access to. If the way others judge my approach inhibits my ability to explore and inform my characters, then yes, I do care.

If you don't plan on using a character at the highest technical level or going beyond friendlies and locals then why enter into a skype group or any other place where those ideals are the sole purpose?

Just because I don't utilize a character's tech doesn't mean that there aren't things I still need to learn. I learned about NIL through the Marth Skype group just last week, and I enjoyed doing it enough to implement it - had they reacted the way the Peach Skype group did, that would have been one less tool at my disposal. Same goes for match-up knowledge.

 

[Haaaaadoken]

Is it really surprising that a Peach, Marth, and Luigi main who doesn't do some tech but does others because he likes it who also doesn't care about anything higher than locals and netplay matches isn't being taken seriously in dedicated character discussions? What good is match-up discussion if you don't even use the character to it's maximum potential? I don't think anyone else there is trying to discuss "How to play Marth vs Fox without using CGs".

With all this being said, you really shouldn't care about what other people think of your play style and just play the game how you want to play it.

 

[NitroSSBM]

Well there's nothing wrong with that, if you're doing well with it and you don't care to get beyond the local level then it's fine. Also, I don't personally see Peach as a character who would really need to L-Cancel every single move she does. However, if you're winning alot with this playstyle then imagine what you could do if you tried, if you did all those advanced techniques. You seem to have the fundamentals down and you seem to have a talent for the game, if you applied that then you could probably get really good, really fast.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Ultimately the reason everyone plays this game is because it is fun and rewarding, but that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. If what you are doing makes you happy then that's all that matters.

If people calling you a scrub is really getting to you, I suggest learning to l cancel. Honestly your tech seems mostly fine and obviously you are talented at this game, but not knowing how to l cancel probably just sets off a big red flag for people. If you don't want to do that (and it's really easy) then just learn to grow a thicker skin and ignore people because at the end of the day you are doing what you want and that's what matters here.

EDIT:
Also, I wouldn't over vocalize your stand point if you are worried about people not reacting well. If you stand on a mountain top and shout "I don't care about your game" then of course people will be offended, so maybe you should avoid that

 

[Mc.Rad]

Honestly, it's kinda the people who criticize your viewpoint instead of the way you play. Honestly the way you play is a pretty interesting approach, maybe you'll maybe create something interesting and viable. Alot of Melee players focus on tech, that's good and all, but there's alot of players that don't focus heavily on tech (like Jigglypuff mains). If I were you, I would keep on. You obviously have alot of good talent, you just need to work on it to make it viable. If your interested in the money in pots then that's alright, it's a good motivator. Many of good players are motivated to play Melee. It would be interesting to see someone who uses a playstyle like yours (I've seen a Link player who was very close range). Kinda of a shame though that your not interested in the scene.

 

[BartholomewRR]

Is it really surprising that a Peach, Marth, and Luigi main who doesn't do some tech but does others because he likes it who also doesn't care about anything higher than locals and netplay matches isn't being taken seriously in dedicated character discussions?

I think that there's a clear difference between not being taken seriously and actively being denied access to the advice these groups have to offer.

What good is match-up discussion if you don't even use the character to it's maximum potential?

I think that very few of the people in those circles use any characters to their maximal potential, but that aside - it's not as if every aspect of my play is radically different from the status quo. How would my lack of CG in any way impact how I should edgeguard a Sheik? How large of a dfiference would my lack of L-Cancels really make on the way my Luigi deals with a Puff?

With all this being said, you really shouldn't care about what other people think of your play style and just play the game how you want to play it.

As I've said - I don't. My only real issue lies with the fact that I've been removed from Skype groups on the basis that "I don't take [my main] seriously". I just don't see how my lack of tech justifies that.

Also, I wouldn't over vocalize your stand point if you are worried about people not reacting well.

For the most part, I only mention it when it comes up, though I've deliberately brought it up at times in order to see what certain players think of it.

If you stand on a mountain top and shout "I don't care about your game" then of course people will be offended, so maybe you should avoid that

I don't, though. I specifically acknowledge that it's not an optimal playstyle, and that it isn't viable beyond the local level. I recognize the advantages of these techniques - I just don't use them.

 

[Frizz]

Everybody has their own playstyle. If you simply copy and paste others, most people will already know how to counter you. Unpredictability is a good tool to have.

 

[GenNyan]

For the most part, I only mention it when it comes up, though I've deliberately brought it up at times in order to see what certain players think of it.

I recommend not mentioning it when it comes up. Just tell people that you do L-cancel. Go back to the Skype group and lie that you learned the tech. If you netplay one of them and they notice your lack of these techs, just tell them that you know how to do it in practice, but are bad at implementing it. You of course don't need to do this IRL, because people are less likely to be *****.

 

[Haaaaadoken]

I think that there's a clear difference between not being taken seriously and actively being denied access to the advice these groups have to offer.

Don't you think you're being denied access to these groups is because they think you're not serious?

This works well enough for me to perform as I wish - I mostly go head to head with my sparring partners, I win and/or place okay at locals, and I do well against good players. While I understand that I could likely improve drastically if I picked up the rest of the standard toolset, I'm content with the level at which I perform, and see no need to alter my playstyle beyond learning MUs, and whatever improvements come naturally. I'm just not invested enough in this scene to push further than that.

Also, if you have no desire to go beyond your local scene and feel comfortable with where you are right now. Why are you trying to improve?

 

[BartholomewRR]

Go back to the Skype group and lie that you learned the tech. If you netplay one of them and they notice your lack of these techs, just tell them that you know how to do it in practice, but are bad at implementing it.

Sounds a tad pathetic, but I suppose I'll have to consider it.

Don't you think you're being denied access to these groups is because they think you're not serious?

I've beaten several of the people in those groups and have gone head to head with players that very clearly outperform them, so even if they did think that I'm not serious, surely they'd at least realize that there must be something I can contribute that they currently lack, no?

Also, if you have no desire to go beyond your local scene and feel comfortable with where you are right now. Why are you trying to improve?

For one, because other members of my scene are very obviously trying to achieve beyond the local level, which means that I will have to be able to adapt to to their improvements. If, for example, a local Falco started approaching with short-hopped lasers and nairs (Hi Saiblade!), I would need to know to pull out double-fairs, as well as how to perform them in the first place.

That aside, as I've mentioned, there are certain aspects of the game that I enjoy learning about - mind games, spacing, edgeguards, and general trick play chiefly among them. If a certain technique that I don't mind performing could provide me with a greater toolset in that regard, then why would I deny myself the ability to learn it? SDing and NIL are two perfect examples of this. They're very easy to perform, I don't mind doing them, and they can make the difference during a tight game.

 

[Comet7]

you can be a great player, but i don't think people who are interesting in advancing a character's metagame will care about that. they are probably more interested in stuff like frame advantage from a shield drop up air with x character, not "if you do this then people will likely do that which can be punished so you win," as important as the mental game is.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

This is the most Floaty Player problem and situation I have ever heard.

 

[ForTheLulz]

To be fair, you were kicked out of the marth group because people complained that you were a pretentious asshole, not because of any of your opinions on advanced techs.

 

[NitroSSBM]

To be fair, you were kicked out of the marth group because people complained that you were a pretentious *******, not because of any of your opinions on advanced techs.

rekt

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

To be fair, you were kicked out of the marth group because people complained that you were a pretentious *******, not because of any of your opinions on advanced techs.

I figured that was why after reading the op

 

[BartholomewRR]

To be fair, you were kicked out of the marth group because people complained that you were a pretentious *******, not because of any of your opinions on advanced techs.

I didn't complain about being kicked out of that one, nor did I ever claim that Oddy kicked me for not being tech-heavy. I just didn't care much about that one, hence why I left after Sai added me back. That aside, I don't think I was being pretentious, I was just being openly rude.

 

[NitroSSBM]

That aside, I don't think I was being pretentious, I was just being openly rude.

lolwut

 

[BartholomewRR]

lolwut

Well, there's a difference, don't you think?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Ultimately what it seems like is either the people in the group were being ***** or you were being a ****, and none of us can tell you what was what. We've already validated there is nothing wrong with playing the game how you want to play it, so if you want us to bash a Skype group for kicking you out when we don't know how the interactions went then that is pretty absurd

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Uh, yeah. Does it really surprise you that people don't like you or want to give you advice if you're actively being rude, disrespecting the opinions of others who all love this game just as much or more than you, and just making a general obnoxious brat of yourself by shoving your own opinions down everyone's throat? Like, dude, play the game however you want to. Don't get butthurt about it when people disagree with you. You recognized that there were other, more optimal things to do and CHOSE to ignore them. Either stand by your choice and continue to enjoy the game, or shut up and learn the tech like everyone else. Knowledge is no excuse for rudeness.

 

[NitroSSBM]

Well, there's a difference, don't you think?

It doesn't matter if there's a difference both are negative

 

[BartholomewRR]

if you want us to bash a Skype group for kicking you out when we don't know how the interactions went then that is pretty absurd

I don't think I ever asked you to do that - my question was why my playstyle is met with the kind of response it usually evokes, and that was answered.

you're actively being rude, disrespecting the opinions of others who all love this game just as much or more than you

I don't think I ever disrespected anyone's opinion. I specifically noted that I understand their views and respect their approach. The behavior Fury, FTL, and I are discussing was never related to playstyles - just off-topic discussions. Not only that, but it was exclusive to the Marth Skype Group, which has thus far been the exception to the rule in terms of how my playstyle tends to be received.

and just making a general obnoxious brat of yourself by shoving your own opinions down everyone's throat?

I've already said that I rarely mention it unless it comes up, or I am interested in the opinion of specific high level players.

Like, dude, play the game however you want to. Don't get butthurt about it when people disagree with you. You recognized that there were other, more optimal things to do and CHOSE to ignore them. Either stand by your choice and continue to enjoy the game, or shut up and learn the tech like everyone else. Knowledge is no excuse for rudeness.

...I don't care about the fact that anyone disagrees. As I said earlier, my only issue lies with my loss of access to valuable resources solely due to my playstyle. I was never rude in the Peach Skype Group, which is the one I had been removed from.

It doesn't matter if there's a difference both are negative

I think that it does - the former is a lack of self-awareness, the latter a distinct choice to behave a certain way. The former also implies that this is somehow related to my playstyle, while the latter has no bearing on the topic. The Marth Skype Group is unrelated to the discussion - in fact, their only mention in this thread specifically points out that they were an exception to the rule.

 

[Massive]

This thread seems to be more about spreading your drama around than about your playstyle.

Your confrontational posting style is also making you come off as pretentious, which is a great way to get people to argue with you on the internet and probably why you're getting a lot of flak here.

I've always been of the opinion that you should resolve drama where it occurs, and not spread it out or try to get social justice by spreading it around.

 

[BartholomewRR]

This thread seems to be more about spreading your drama around than about your playstyle.

I don't really see how. The thread as I had posted it ended a good while ago - I'm merely addressing points raised by others.

Your confrontational posting style is also making you come off as pretentious, which is a great way to get people to argue with you on the internet and probably why you're getting a lot of flak here.

...Confrontational posting style? Seems to me that most of the thread consists of me defending and clarifying my position, if anything. What exactly do you mean?

I've always been of the opinion that you should resolve drama where it occurs, and not spread it out or try to get social justice by spreading it around.

I really don't see the "drama" here, short of FTL's post and the comments that followed. I didn't seek social justice, as I've said many times now - I sought clarification and insight. I had gotten that by post #13.

 

[NitroSSBM]

I don't think I ever asked you to do that - my question was why my playstyle is met with the kind of response it usually evokes, and that was answered.



I don't think I ever disrespected anyone's opinion. I specifically noted that I understand their views and respect their approach. The behavior Fury, FTL, and I are discussing was never related to playstyles - just off-topic discussions. Not only that, but it was exclusive to the Marth Skype Group, which has thus far been the exception to the rule in terms of how my playstyle tends to be received.



I've already said that I rarely mention it unless it comes up, or I am interested in the opinion of specific high level players.



...I don't care about the fact that anyone disagrees. As I said earlier, my only issue lies with my loss of access to valuable resources solely due to my playstyle. I was never rude in the Peach Skype Group, which is the one I had been removed from.



I think that it does - the former is a lack of self-awareness, the latter a distinct choice to behave a certain way. The former also implies that this is somehow related to my playstyle, while the latter has no bearing on the topic. The Marth Skype Group is unrelated to the discussion - in fact, their only mention in this thread specifically points out that they were an exception to the rule.

lol idk why im replying to this thread anymore, i dont really care tbh

 

[Massive]

...Confrontational posting style? Seems to me that most of the thread consists of me defending and clarifying my position, if anything. What exactly do you mean?

Defending a point without conceding even partially to a counterpoint is often perceived as arrogance (it has happened to me before, too), especially online.

Additionally, discarding responses with "I didn't intend that" or "I don't think I was doing that" (denying guilt then restating your line of reasoning) doesn't convince people, mostly because no evidence is presented, and it makes you appear like you're trying to weasel out of something.

Something important to realize in matters like this is that you could be wrong, and not realize it. A bit of humility can go a long way and is generally pretty effective.

Anyway, you can continue arguing every point that's brought up until this thread gets locked, or you can cut your losses, stop posting in this thread and move on.

Either way, Good luck to you.