XTrEMeSteel14
Smash Rookie
I recently switched from Doc to Mario.
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Is Mario Tournament Viable
- Thread starter XTrEMeSteel14
- Start date
Jagoffian
Smash Journeyman
groovy
Smash Rookie
Switching from Doc to Mario is pretty interesting, I did the same since Mario was more swift and came off to me as more fun/baller. I do believe Mario is tournament viable even before watching A Rookie do work in The Next Episode. Just really gotta outsmart your opponent and you can do it \m/
Mario and Doc share more playstyle/moveset similarities than any other pair of clones in the game. I feel like anyone who plays one should just play both because switching is more or less seamless and the intricacies that do exist could produce situational benefits. Its hard to say how viable they are individually, but I can say with certainty that Doc and Mario would both be more viable from a dual main approach.
For example, what benefit is there to play against Jiggs with Mario when you can use Doc? You would be screwing yourself out of a powerful zoning tool (pills), an extremely powerful vertical finisher (Doc's fair), and the superior hitboxes of bair. I feel like Doc has the edge in every true-floaty match up. Likewise, there are situations where Mario is the character with a clearly better match up, such as vs. Sheik.
For example, what benefit is there to play against Jiggs with Mario when you can use Doc? You would be screwing yourself out of a powerful zoning tool (pills), an extremely powerful vertical finisher (Doc's fair), and the superior hitboxes of bair. I feel like Doc has the edge in every true-floaty match up. Likewise, there are situations where Mario is the character with a clearly better match up, such as vs. Sheik.
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XTrEMeSteel14
Smash Rookie
Yeah I'm thinking about maining both.Ive been playing doc since 2004 lol
Britex
Smash Apprentice
The real question is, is fox tournament viable?
XTrEMeSteel14
Smash Rookie
Ummm yes
Britex
Smash Apprentice
Didn't get the joke.jpg
a rookie
Smash Ace
Yeah man, play both if you want. You have so much more options that way. And yes, Doc is A LOT better vs. Jiggs/Samus/Peach/Marth/etc. But take into account, all of Doc's moves are (I believe) 6 frames slower than Mario's. So if you need more speed/combos, Mario's your guy. But if you want to kill easier, Doc is your guy. Thanks Jago, you're too nice (:
Luigimanski64
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- May 8, 2014
- Messages
- 29
@op theyre both very similar so use the one you like more or think is cooler. Doc is more viable in the grand scheme of things so use him if winning is still a major virtue of yours but theres no saying that you cant play both. Doc will be better at killing and edgegaurding, and has the better projectile, while mario has better recovery more combo starters with his fair and utilt. Doc has the better fair but mario has the better fsmash
Waaaaaaaaat? >___>
a rookie
Smash Ace
I'm whatting to your what? I'm confused -____-"
Take_the_red_pill
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- May 16, 2014
- Messages
- 10
I think he meant that you said that all of docs moves were 6 frames slower. If youre not being sarcastic i think you should know that all clones bar roy share the exact same frame data for most moves. I guess you truly will never be A Professional will you?
a rookie
Smash Ace
ACTUALLY. Lol. Doc is slower. His aerials are slower, not his smash attacks. Don't believe me? Ask Shroomed or any Doc player that knows what they're talking about. True, I will never be A Professional. I'll just be The Best
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Doc has more landing lag on his aerials then Mario, thus he has longer L-cancels. That's why Mario seems faster, and why Mario is more combo orientated. But everything else in terms of speed is exactly the same between the 2.
a rookie
Smash Ace
Confirmed from my friend(a Doc main), Doc is actually heavier than Mario too! Interesting fact 
MudkipUniverse
Smash Ace
But only very slightly.Confirmed from my friend(a Doc main), Doc is actually heavier than Mario too! Interesting fact
a rookie
Smash Ace
I don't know if you've ever played on a tv w/ "slight" lag. Slight is a big difference in this game.
MudkipUniverse
Smash Ace
No, I have.
a rookie
Smash Ace
Then you should know that a slight weight difference can make a big difference when it comes to surviving or dying.
the muted smasher
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 409
What is this non sense xD
This is so bad doc and mario weight the same other than in pal where they nerfed marios weight. (M2k list or go to much room kingdom and put mario on one scale and doc on the other)
117 --- (1) Bowser
--- 114 --- (2) DK
--- 110 --- (3) Samus
--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
--- 94 --- (11) Ness
--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers
--- 87 --- (16) Marth
--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
--- 75 --- (22) Fox
--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
--- 55 --- (26) Pichu
Docs f tilt is much less laggy than marios.
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html
This is so bad doc and mario weight the same other than in pal where they nerfed marios weight. (M2k list or go to much room kingdom and put mario on one scale and doc on the other)
117 --- (1) Bowser
--- 114 --- (2) DK
--- 110 --- (3) Samus
--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
--- 94 --- (11) Ness
--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers
--- 87 --- (16) Marth
--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
--- 75 --- (22) Fox
--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
--- 55 --- (26) Pichu
Docs f tilt is much less laggy than marios.
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html
MudkipUniverse
Smash Ace
Any character can be viable if in the right hands.
the muted smasher
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 409
You know roy has 4 unwinnable match-up You seriously can't win. Then he loses to kirby.
Mario has yet to be proven viable so much as a gimmick. "Mango"
But if a rookie keeps grinding forward may be proven otherwise.
In the midwest there's a kirby main with power ranking and we had a zedla main beat kels
Mario has yet to be proven viable so much as a gimmick. "Mango"
But if a rookie keeps grinding forward may be proven otherwise.
In the midwest there's a kirby main with power ranking and we had a zedla main beat kels
MudkipUniverse
Smash Ace
Roy is seriously the worst character in the game
Mario can do it. Players just have to think differently. Mentally blocking oneself doesn't help. The fact is that as professional as the smash community may view itself, a lot of things have yet to be determined.
Trust the frame data that has been posted to this site? Think again... Frame data has been pullled from the forums before due to unreliability. Who is to say that the hit boxes are trustworthy either? Forum entries are not subjected to a peer review process. Smash does not pay the same salary that other sports pay. Correspondingly, players have not had great incentive to spend time innovating. The waters are still untested.
To all marios out there, don't let people tell you that mario only wins by gimps. Gimps do not exist. If someone dies at a low percent, then you have legitimately outplayed them. That person may deal with it by writing it off as a gimp, but that, simply put, is a "john." Why is fox's shine spike viewed with respect so much more often than another character's "gimp?" That is the question to ask. Perspective is everything. Believe in yourself and innovate.
The most important thing in this game is not summed up in hit boxes, frame data, and successively hitting buttons (calling it tech skill). Every progression in this game is successively hitting buttons. Why is "tech skill" viewed as something special? Maybe because it isn't obvious to a NEW player and wasn't emphatically predetermined by the game creators? Though mario's play may not have the "tech skill" of a fox/falco, Mario's abilities are not summed up by such blind guarantees. It is summed up in the player's mind and perspective. Mario doesn't need the same tools that other characters need. Mario has his own. Until other players understand this, Mario will not succeed.
Trust the frame data that has been posted to this site? Think again... Frame data has been pullled from the forums before due to unreliability. Who is to say that the hit boxes are trustworthy either? Forum entries are not subjected to a peer review process. Smash does not pay the same salary that other sports pay. Correspondingly, players have not had great incentive to spend time innovating. The waters are still untested.
To all marios out there, don't let people tell you that mario only wins by gimps. Gimps do not exist. If someone dies at a low percent, then you have legitimately outplayed them. That person may deal with it by writing it off as a gimp, but that, simply put, is a "john." Why is fox's shine spike viewed with respect so much more often than another character's "gimp?" That is the question to ask. Perspective is everything. Believe in yourself and innovate.
The most important thing in this game is not summed up in hit boxes, frame data, and successively hitting buttons (calling it tech skill). Every progression in this game is successively hitting buttons. Why is "tech skill" viewed as something special? Maybe because it isn't obvious to a NEW player and wasn't emphatically predetermined by the game creators? Though mario's play may not have the "tech skill" of a fox/falco, Mario's abilities are not summed up by such blind guarantees. It is summed up in the player's mind and perspective. Mario doesn't need the same tools that other characters need. Mario has his own. Until other players understand this, Mario will not succeed.
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a rookie
Smash Ace
Wait, Mango thinks Mario is a gimmick? :/ I honestly think the opposite. And trust me, I've been grinding it out. Actually learned a couple of new things and made this Falco that has beaten me the last 3 times in tournament rage quit earlier today after 3-1'ing him in Winner's Semis at a little local tournament (:
@ S Sheepomg : I don't doubt in Mario at all. I don't even doubt my abilities. I think I get better every tournament. I hope I can get better to actually take down the big dogs CONSISTENTLY. But first, I got to tackle everyone else in front of them
the muted smasher
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 409
No mango didn't say that. I just think saying mario is legit because mango, which is more of a case of mango doing whatever and people not knowing what's up. A gimmick in that respect.
Like I didn't see why mario can't do well because feel the same about some low tiers, but I really don't see what he has to offer to keep any results he gets once he breaks past hard match-ups an dB they figure him out too.
Like I didn't see why mario can't do well because feel the same about some low tiers, but I really don't see what he has to offer to keep any results he gets once he breaks past hard match-ups an dB they figure him out too.
a rookie
Smash Ace
I need to beat Mango. It's always been something to look forward to. Not just his Mario, but him in general. That's my goal, to dethrown him.