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Is Kirby bad?
- Thread starter Zero1999
- Start date
Garlic Wonder
Smash Apprentice
Well, because Kirby is the worst character in the game and in the F class section, along with Pichu and Bowser.
And his attacks are clunky and slow, and his only KO move, the Hammer or Side B, is slow and takes a while to perform.
A good Kirby will have some problems with a mediocre Falcon or Fox.
And his attacks are clunky and slow, and his only KO move, the Hammer or Side B, is slow and takes a while to perform.
A good Kirby will have some problems with a mediocre Falcon or Fox.
Comet7
Smash Lord
you should click the thread under this one
Zero1999
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
- Messages
- 20
Well, i am new to melee, i have played 64 and Brawl, in other words I don't have experience in melee,
Anyway, yes i know some of his moves are not packed with power (Example, Forward smash was nerfed), and he is not that fast, i did some comparison, to 64 to Melee, and Brawl to Melee. and i agree with that, however he has a few tricks, Down air is a good move,Swallowcide and Kirbycide (Which is not recommended from what i have read somewhere)
Anyway, yes i know some of his moves are not packed with power (Example, Forward smash was nerfed), and he is not that fast, i did some comparison, to 64 to Melee, and Brawl to Melee. and i agree with that, however he has a few tricks, Down air is a good move,Swallowcide and Kirbycide (Which is not recommended from what i have read somewhere)
Comet7
Smash Lord
he's slow and clunky. his throws kinda suck. he doesn't really have good kill moves beside up air. his combos are basically limited to up tilt to (something) or bair chains at low %. his recovery can be gimped if he can't go high. he also doesn't have good approaches.
at least he's cute.
at least he's cute.
SSS
Smash Ace
there are like 3 good Kirby players in the world and they basically just space dtilt and duck a bunch.
Garlic Wonder
Smash Apprentice
Yep. Sakurai must've felt really bad for his creation being the worst character, so he added DDD and MK to help Kirby in Brawl and 4.
The hammer is not a KO move.
Zero1999
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
- Messages
- 20
The hammer can kill with luck, because sometimes it deals few damage, but if used properly and you catch your opponent off guard it can kill, but as Garlic Wonder said, the hammer is slow and sometimes doesn't kill
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
If Kirby doesn't gimp you, then Kirby kills with back-air, up-air, or a smash attack read.
Its not random, its called a sweetspot.
Zero1999
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
- Messages
- 20
With the luck part i was actually saying that he needs luck to score the hammer hit, but does the hammer has a hard to get sweetspot?
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
IMO, Kirby is better than Bowser, Roy, and Ness. Kirby and Pichu I'm unsure of, but I think Kirby's better.
Twilight Emblem
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2008
- Messages
- 162
I could see somebody becoming #1 with him.
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
As long as you're not doing the fairs too late after the jump, then you are doing it correctly. His recovery is very questionable but thanks to rising fair, multiple options, and even swallowcide, I think his recovery is decent.
gmBottles
Fun Haver
His recovery isn't necessarily bad, it's just really easy to predict his movement. The only safe option is to sweetspot the ledge with up-b, but even that is risky because it's so easy to read that you'll likely be edgehogged.
On the subject of the tier list, I think Kirby earns his spot. I think all of the bottom tiers are where they belong, but I also think that they are all relatively close in regards to how good they are. Kirby isn't the worst just because he's bad, it's a lack of options.
On the subject of the tier list, I think Kirby earns his spot. I think all of the bottom tiers are where they belong, but I also think that they are all relatively close in regards to how good they are. Kirby isn't the worst just because he's bad, it's a lack of options.
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
-"Sweetspot up-b" definitely is not a good Kirby recovery option, and not his best. Beyond that, a Kirby player should probably avoid this unless absolutely needed to recover.
-Kirby has more neutral game options than several mid/low/bottom tier characters (
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Comet7
Smash Lord
why don't you give me what kirby has in neutral. up tilt is okay but doesn't lead to much... grab would work if he had throws that worked... and it doesn't help that kirby isn't exactly fast. i guess you have d/f tilts but so do pretty much all the other low tier characters (and zelda has kicks/down smash)...
and as a pichu main, nair and speed > kirby's stuff
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Triple R
Smash Lord
I just wanted to put it out there that Kirby destroys Zelda.
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
Up-tilt leads into:
-itself
-Bair
-Uair for guaranteed KO's at most higher percents on any faster-faller (Fox, Falco, Falcon, Sheik)
-Uair or bair into edgeguarding at slightly lower percents on majority of cast (and Kirby's got a solid edgeguarding game)
-F-Smash
---Up-tilt is amazing and leads into both combos and KO's. You can follow up with bad options like nair/aerial-hammer or subpar options like fair/usmash, but listed is what's definitely good.
Hitbox-based neutral options:
-Up-tilt
-D-tilt
-F-tilt (including angled)
-Bair
-Fair
-Fair w/ landing hitbox
-Grab
-Each of these tends to cover certain other options and leads to Kirby and the opponent playing a legitimate guessing game. Kirby has some DI traps that aren't too difficult to set-up with his movepool, though I won't go into detail on those.
-This totally ignores Kirby's crouch and all of its implications, which go quite far.
"Grabs don't work:"
-You can only mash out of F-throw and B-Throw
--Kirby's throws are fast enough to make mashing out of them unrealistic at mid-high percents for f-throw (I don't know how this one combos, Kirby's rarely f-throw at mid-high percents) and low percents with b-throw, as long as the Kirby has the know-how to throw immediately.
-D-Throw leads into okay tech-chases, great for jab resets. Teching in-place is like teching in place against Sheik (grab is still grab, u-tilt u-air is f-tilt f-air). Often kirby can follow up with simple chase + D-tilt, which is another free 8% off a grab (I don't think you can punish it off tech-chase)-- not bad for a character based mostly on neutral game.
-U-throw is a DI trap with platforms. If the opponent DI's behind or has no DI, then Kirby can combo with backair or even up-air on faster-fallers or at lower percents. If the opponent DI's away and ends up landing on a platform, then Kirby can tech-chase the opponent with a uair shark, which will very often lead to a kill -- if Kirby fails to correctly guess the uair placement, Kirby can still back-air the opponent or fair the opponent depending on how the opponent tried to mix-it-up.
-B-throw often outspeeds human reaction time leading to poor DI. B-throw will lead into a guaranteed uair kill on some characters (including Sheik) with poor DI at higher percents.
-Kirby can do more with throws but these are what come to mind first and foremost for me at least (since I play Sheik and not a spacie -- Gimping isn't much of a concern to me).
Kirby isn't exactly fast:
-It's true Kirby isn't fast, but he isn't exactly slow either. His biggest speed limitation is his air speed, which isn't very important as he's a very grounded character anyways. He's a medium-speed character with a great grab range and very fast attacks which cover a decent mount of space -- speed isn't necessarily his biggest concern.
What you think as a Pichu main has little bearing on how Kirby and Pichu compare with one another, as it says nothing about what you may or may not know about Kirby; However, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think Kirby's bair+crouch out-do Pichu's speed+nair.
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Comet7
Smash Lord
yeah, already knew up tilt was good. and you can lead it to other stuff but you really can't do that much off it compared to anybody else, not that low tiers can get much off stuff in general.
since when was down throw ever a good throw... i guess you can tech chase some people that don't know how to escape the knockdown with medium weight or fast fallers... you don't even get much off of it... and you also just told me that people can get followups off grabs if they don't di right, which would work, except this isn't the land of 2005 where people sucked at di. i guess if you're really good at tech chasing, you could make it work, but pretty much everyone else can too. so...against non fast fallers, kirby has to tech chase... i don't think grabs really work here.and pichu tech chases better lol
k, not really worried about being hit by a down tilt or f tilt... up tilt is a bit annoying but it's the only fast option that i see that does a lot (for kirby).
k, you can think wrong
since when was down throw ever a good throw... i guess you can tech chase some people that don't know how to escape the knockdown with medium weight or fast fallers... you don't even get much off of it... and you also just told me that people can get followups off grabs if they don't di right, which would work, except this isn't the land of 2005 where people sucked at di. i guess if you're really good at tech chasing, you could make it work, but pretty much everyone else can too. so...against non fast fallers, kirby has to tech chase... i don't think grabs really work here.
k, not really worried about being hit by a down tilt or f tilt... up tilt is a bit annoying but it's the only fast option that i see that does a lot (for kirby).
k, you can think wrong
THE_MAAFIA
Smash Ace
He made Kirby over powered in 64, so he attempted to need him... He nerfed Kirby too hard
Massive
Smash Champion
This is because kirby is bad, he's just explaining how kirby works in neutral.
Kirby's grab game isn't great, but even so, dthrow is kirby's best throw. It is the only one that you can actually follow up on or tech chase out of. Against slower characters like 'dorf you can almost always regrab out of a dthow at low %, especially if they tech roll.
Up-throw is basically garbage unless you're playing against a character who can retaliate against dthrow (yoshi, peach, zelda, puff), then it's basically your only option. Grabs in general need to happen with most characters because they give you % in a completely beneficial way, even if they reset to neutral and prevent you from punishing.
When I play kirby about 90% of my KOs are dtilt > ledgehog, lol. Dtilt is arguably Kirby's best spacing tactic, since it denies opponents a ground approach and exploits kirby's tiny crouch in a way that makes it difficult to punish from the air without fully committing.
Ftilt is great in neutral and does have decent KO potential. You can also use it to ledgeguard since it can be angled.
None of this makes kirby a good character, it's just his options and what can be done with them. Smart players can overcome deficits in any character, but there's always a limit.
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Lime Cultivist
Smash Apprentice
Yes, Kirby is bad. I think the worst things about him may be his air mobility - horizontal speed is almost non-existent when compared to other characters.